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Old 01-08-2011, 05:20 PM   #29
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We had such a radar detector, bought a year or two after we first set off cruising, then bought another, newer version when it became available. It was developed by a cruiser, though I believe he sold it to another company. We swore by it, particularly since we never had radar, and it worked very well. Called C.A.R.D system, we found it through a sailing magazine ad.

Here's a description of it, C.A.R.D. radar detector

Here's another discussion of it on Cruiserlog: http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/ind...showtopic=2742
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:34 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by name='multihullsailor6' timestamp='1294432649' post='45987

That situation report (which is quite scary but well known) reminds me that, though I do have an AIS transceiver but no radar on board, I also have an oldish Lo-Kata Watchman installed which is supposed to warn me when hit by a radar transmission after which you can take part of the unit on deck and find the direction of the radar source. Great for off-shore but not much use in coastal sailing with many fishing boats or close to a shipping highway. The French have a modern version available called "Mer Veille" which is also available in the United States called .........? which indicates the quarter on which the radar beam was received. Met a French single handed sailor who was very happy with his French unit. Anybody have experience with such a radar warner?
Reaching far from our initial topic, but interesting none-the-less, back in the mid-1980's when hubby was flying F14's for the USN, the squadron he was part of were frustrated by certain aspects of their own ability to detect another plane when in air combat maneuver (ACM) exercises and while performing their duties in the Middle East off Iran (gee, things haven't changed much in a quarter century...); the pilots used cheapy Radio Shack or Cobra type radar detectors for better detection of other planes nearby than their own (very costly) radar systems were able to detect. Some of it related to the fact that during these exercises, the planes would use chaff ( a mid-air release of a radar reflecting substance that would confuse radar looking for targets) but I don't recall the other issues. All in all, I just recall hubby thinking automotive radar detectors were great in non-automotive use.

We do not have a radar detector at this time, only AIS. We also don't have radar right now either. The only times we miss radar is when we want to know what's happening with nearby storm systems--not when we are wondering about other traffic.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:47 AM   #31
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I've been looking at these Vesper Marine transponders and i'm impressed by t he feedback they have received. Seems they have programming that filters unneeded signals which clears the screen. Probably not so important around here (gisborne, nz) but vital in busy seaways. Here's a link....http://www.vespermarine.co.nz/marine...nsponder.html/ . The filtering seems to be the obvious difference between the more basic and the dearer devices.

Does the Simrad AI 50 AIS transceiver have the same type of filtering?

Also the feedback on the Vesper marine site indicates these are really worthwhile to have aboard. For shorthanded sailing how neat to be able to see immediately where ships are and what they are going to do. I guess these are fairly new so prices will probably come down and new features may be included.

I'm thinking also that a receiver is probably enough. Seems from the Vesper feedback that ships are quite courteous when hailed and give way like country gentlemen. We have to keep a lookout all the time regardless and these have alarms so really can't see much advantage in having a transponder. Panbo site has a blurb about ships turning filtering on so as to only show shipping when in high traffic areas. They may not do so but I believe they can.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:45 PM   #32
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On my Simrad AI50 I do have a customable CPA alarm system. The range I select depends on where I sail, ie the traffic, the time of day / night, the weather / visibility and the no. of crew on board. When I singlehand the selected range is larger than when I am with crew.

I am not sure how the Vesper "filters" the traffic, from the picture on their website there is a screen which will show the AIS positions relative to your own. Not sure if as a pure receiver it is worth the extra money compared to the NASA AIS Radar.

As to having a transceiver or just a receiver - with my transceiver at least I know I am making myself as electronically visible as possible, if the big ships don't look at their screen / printout or turn it off, well there is nothing I can do about that but have MY alarm on!
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:19 AM   #33
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Yes Multihullsailor,

Transceiver would be nice to have no doubt. If a ship triggers your alarm, as mentioned, you would call on the vhf and ask if they see you and what intentions they have. To my thinking this is not different in practice than just having a receiver though I'm sure the added security of having your presence going out is reassuring' especially with more leisure craft having Ais receivers. I have read of skippers getting too many ships on their Nasa ais receivers in some places. I can imagine that would increase tension with alarms going off frequently even if the ship has passed. I'm happy to be corrected on these points if someone thinks differently. I'm here to learn! Also, in our area there is not any private monitoring of AIS signals so they don't show up on the website. Kept an eye on Gisborne Harbour and the website and we have had ships in that don't appear on the website. Skippers seem to be very happy with AIS (some) even suggesting that its more useful than radar.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:20 AM   #34
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[QUOTE=danblu;1295237983]

Yes Multihullsailor,

Transceiver would be nice to have no doubt. If a ship triggers your alarm, as mentioned, you would call on the vhf and ask if they see you and what intentions they have. To my thinking this is not different in practice than just having a receiver though I'm sure the added security of having your presence going out is reassuring' especially with more leisure craft having Ais receivers. I have read of skippers getting too many ships on their Nasa ais receivers in some places. I can imagine that would increase tension with alarms going off frequently even if the ship has passed. I'm happy to be corrected on these points if someone thinks differently. I'm here to learn! Also, in our area there is not any private monitoring of AIS signals so they don't show up on the website. Kept an eye on Gisborne Harbour and the website and we have had ships in that don't appear on the website. Skippers seem to be very happy with AIS (some) even suggesting that its more useful than radar.

G'day Peter. 'Silver Raven here. Just across the 'puddle'. Check out my 'profile' - I did yours. What's your life worth? Mine's worth 10's of millions (& that's in PURE gold) - at least to me. Serious suggestion is that you re-read this whole topic from top to bottom !!! Mico, MMNETSEA & multi6 have very clearly indicated that the use of the 'whole system' has saved their lives. I'm in agreement with all of this. BIG TIME I've been racing (wash my mouth out with "Gramma's lie-sol') eg. off Newcastle NSW, Australia in a total 'white-out' with 6 going out & 4 coming in - all coal carriers 'super tankers' - all doing 20 plus knots, could not be seen (1978 - before AIS). Think about that - a living horror story - in our very face & IN the dark. I would very seriously - IMHO - ask you to re think your evaluation. I would/am going to 'get the works', & at the highest level, just to increase my chances of staying alive. Suggest you do the same. We, all here, are not wanting to go to anyone's wake. #1/ They have to see you; #2/ You have to be able to let them know - - you see them - - it is on official record, #3/ you both need to know what the other is doing. It WILL save your life. Sure do hope you re-read all the above posts & make the - over safe - decision. Good sailing & do try to 'stay-with-us, Please. Ciao from - across-the-puddle, james. Dollars don't - - life does !!!!!!!!!!!! jj
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:42 AM   #35
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Haa haa, sure James , what is exactly your point. Yo've obviously survived this long sailing without AIS and it sounds like in rather difficult areas. I'm just trying to get my head around the pro's and con's of these various systems before we lash out and buy. By the time we are ready to go cruising the tech may have been upgraded considerable so I'd like to know as much as possible about these devices. I don't need AIS to sail about the bay here. If your after the "works" you'll be paying about as much as your life is worth (ha ha)as some of these systems are way expensive. i can't afford an $7000 AIS transponder. Its useful to discuss these devices as its new tech and its actually fairly difficult to get critical information about them. For example, the clutter situation with some systems isn't well described by the advertising literature except for the Vesper Marine devices. The way I see it...

Basic receiver........usually outputs nmea 0183, no filtering, don't know whether the range is adjustable.

Standard Horizen vhf with AIs.....much the same as the above. I like the idea of this and it's got great vhf features.

Vesper Marine.... filters irrelevent data both receiver and transponder.

Simrad Transponder.... range filtering. and a thumbs up from multihullsailer.

Let alone the range these devices receive from.

Any way Silver Raven hope you guys are all good there in Newcastle and that cyclone going past is not giving you trouble. I used to live in Wingham so I know the area well, beautiful place. I'm a misplaced Aussie who's planning on sailing home some time soon.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:43 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

I would doubt that any government safety body (CG et al) would want to see yachtsmen making lawsuits and claims based upon AIS (a safety navigation system) information.
I think that New Zealand is latching onto AIS as an aid to helping sailors in their waters keep saife, and perhaps get justice for accidents/damage.

Back in 1996/7 the cruising community was abuzz with the story of the terrible loss of most of the Sleavin family, sailing to New Zealand, who were hit by a freighter during bad weather. Here's a reasonably complete news report of the collision, Sinking of the Melinda Lee

There was a lot of effort later to investigate this event, and the cruising community was outraged at the apparent refusal of the S. Korean freighter to search for any survivors of the collision. Judith Sleavin said that she saw the freighter as she and her husband and daughter clung to the partially deflated dinghy in the water, and though the deck of the freighter was full of crewmen looking down at them, the freighter didn't make any effort to rescue them but just turned and disappeared into the storm.

I cannot imagine the horror and devastation this woman has suffered for the loss of her husband and two children. Although I believed then, and still believe, that there are many lessons for all cruisers to be learned from this tragedy, I cannot bring myself to start such a discussion.

I believe that the majority of mariners and ship captains understand not only the laws of the sea but the spirit of going to the aid of other mariners. I would hope that fear of retribution would not be the motivating factor in keeping watch.

But I would welcome any devices that can help keep us safe, and I think that AIS is one of those devices. I would not be surprised if countries other than NZ use monitoring of ships traffic for other purposes than just keeping a watch. I would think that in the US the Department of Homeland Security is using it for their purposes, and if not, I think that they should be.

Just my two cents.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:40 PM   #37
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It was a logging ship like what collided with me I believe. To have hit that family and watched them from the rails and continuing on is inhuman. I would have mutinied if I were aboard her. Then not even reporting the incident to the coastguard!! Surely lowlife scum. Somethings seriously wrong with South Korean shipping. I know most shipping is crewed by honourable people who would be aghast at this type of action but surely there are some monsters out there. I guess their morality is the buck. How do they sleep. Too lazy to even alter course a few degrees or slow down. When they have the war their Kama's will catch up to them.

Maybe sinking yachts is sport for these monsters!!

The point that the crew did see the yachts lights but didn't turn or slow down indicates that they deliberately ran the yacht down.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:48 AM   #38
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[QUOTE=danblu;1295296833]

It was a logging ship like what collided with me I believe. To have hit that family and watched them from the rails and continuing on is inhuman. I would have mutinied if I were aboard her. Then not even reporting the incident to the coastguard!! Surely lowlife scum. Somethings seriously wrong with South Korean shipping. I know most shipping is crewed by honourable people who would be aghast at this type of action but surely there are some monsters out there. I guess their morality is the buck. How do they sleep. Too lazy to even alter course a few degrees or slow down. When they have the war their Kama's will catch up to them.

Maybe sinking yachts is sport for these monsters!!

The point that the crew did see the yachts lights but didn't turn or slow down indicates that they deliberately ran the yacht down.

G'day Peter -ex-pat Aussie. Re - ha ha, james. OOOPS I had not realized that they were THAT expensive, WOW. At a $1000/mo as some claim - by the time it's installed & working - that is 3/4's of a year of cruising funds. I couldn't/wouldn't wish to spend that either. There's just gotta be someone in these forums that can find a better cost/value AIS or something that works. A radar c/w alarms & all the whistles/buttons doesn't cost that much - I don't think. Blinken-heck - There I go again. WRONG. I have known & worked with & around Brian Swinton of Brian Swinton Marine Electronics for over 30 years here in Cairns, Qld & just phoned him for some rough costs. Wow - was I ever out-of-touch with current prices. Egg in my face & mud in my beard. You were correct - I was not. Here's some info - in general terms; Foruno - radar 2kw power - range 0 to 20 k- can't see through rain-squalls & bad weather nor usable when yacht is standing still - aprox $3ks (aussie $'s) - next - 6kw power model - 48 to 72 ks & can see through (tall buildings, in a single bound) - see through rain-squalls, bad weather & works 10/10 when stationary - aprox $6k (ouch) : : AIS Class A - receive only aprox $500, AIS Class B - receive & transmit - aprox $1500. SO I eat much humble-pie. You were right - modern electronics is a tad dear (not with antlers). However if it saves my life & my yacht I'm doing my shopping & will just have to live (very key word there) with the cost & weight - on my light-weight cruising multihull (& I may have lost all friendship - having said that) ha ha

Let us see what others have to say. Like the 'big roach' subject - much for all of us to learn here & I'm looking forward to that. Know a COUPLE OF K1W1's but can't find one of them. The other is David & Tatiana Barker (artist & multihull designer (Sundancer & Sundreamer) & they live in Kerikeri. Can't find Michael Orr though. Great guy & used to work for me repairing yachts & FRP work on the Cairns water front. Y'all over the puddle have a great day, ciao for now, james
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:44 AM   #39
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Yes some of the AIS stuff is real dear but say the Standard Horizon VHF with AIS receiver is great value at roughly 500 bucks nz. Nasa Marine have a receiver thats great value at about 250 bucks nz. I've seen one from Furuno for 7000 bucks nz!! Must be huge difference in the features these have for that sort of a price difference. Probably as many K1W1's over where you are as here Ae James. Cheers Pete.
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