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Old 07-27-2007, 09:26 AM   #1
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While digging about in my shed of boat goodies, I found a sail which has been in its bag since I bought my current boat. For the record, my boat is 53' on deck, has a 68' mast and is a sloop with an inner staysail. I have a spinnaker (actually a big reacher) and now I have discovered this 'new' spinnaker staysail. It is made from spinnaker material, has genoa shape but has a luff wire which is interrupted 8' from the tack with a snap shackle. Along a line parallel with the foot, and behind the shackle is a row of reefing cringles, and there is a heavy ring in line with these on the leech.

The internet has provided little in the way of information about the type of sail and I wonder how it is deployed, how it is flown, is it controlled only by sheets or does it need to be poled out and held down with kickers, is it perhaps used to 'goosewing' with 2 spinnakers...etc.

Interestingly, the luff of this sail is 10' shorter than the spinnaker.P1010057.JPG

This is not much of a photo of the sail, but I washed it in the bath today and here it is hung out to dry. I assume the sail is a leftover from her Sydney Hobart days. Can anyone help?

Cheers

David.
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Old 07-27-2007, 09:40 AM   #2
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Hi David,

Questions :- where is this sail attached ? 1. at the tack ? 2. at the head ?

Is the luff parallel with the forestay - what's the gap between the two?

Is this a staysail made of spinnaker material ? How big ?

Richard
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:07 AM   #3
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Yo Dickie!

G'day mate. It is attached at the head and tack and has a traditional clew ring. It could be attached at the bow and hoisted on a separate halyard. But, the tack could also be attached on a strop at the inner forestay. The foot is far too long for it to be self tacking on the inner stay. The luff is 52'. It is obviously not meant to be attached to a stay. Yes, it is made of ripstop.

Cheers

David.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:40 AM   #4
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Yo Dickie!

G'day mate. It is attached at the head and tack and has a traditional clew ring. It could be attached at the bow and hoisted on a separate halyard. But, the tack could also be attached on a strop at the inner forestay. The foot is far too long for it to be self tacking on the inner stay. The luff is 52'. It is obviously not meant to be attached to a stay. Yes, it is made of ripstop.

Cheers

David.
Yo yoself !

From your initial description with reefing cringles etc - I thought it might be a club footed staysail (you say you have an inner stay - how inner?) .

If you don't determine its use on your sloop - then maybe it could be rigged as a solent?

More close up pics required.

Ricardo
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:46 AM   #5
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Thanks Richard, I'll make some measurements tomorrow.

David.
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Old 07-27-2007, 10:58 AM   #6
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By the way, I would be interested to see a photo of your boat. For general interest as well as helping others to solve this sail mystery.

To a beginner like me, it seems a bit inconsistent for some kind of fore sail to have provision for a big reef AND be made of ripstop. Might it be some kind of cheaply made emergency sail?

cheers

duckie

ps Get any photos of the yacht rally that just left Darwin?
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:29 AM   #7
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Hi Duckie,

My boat's photo is posted on the forum board 'Cruiserlog Yacht Club' under the title 'Belinda'...And, on that note, I urge all members to join that board and post a photo of their craft....

This is not a cheap sail. It is a very lightweight and well made sail by Roly Tasker Racing sails. It is obviously purpose built...It's just that the purpose eludes me for the moment. It does seem that the reef is to be taken around a pole attached to the aforementioned hardware along the luff and leech.

I will take some measurements and provide some further info tomorrow. On the rally and race from Darwin last weekend. The startline was well offshore and my recent surgery prevented me from clambering about on the official boats. So all my pix were taken from the shore...except for a few where I shot a couple of yachts coming through the lock gates at the marina.... I will review them and see if there is anything there worth posting..Thanks for the prompt.

All the best

David.
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:50 AM   #8
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This is like a parlour quiz game! Well I'm learning along the way.

I had to look up what a "club footed staysail" is (Richard's suggested possibility).

It looks like it is a foresail on the inner front stay, with a spar along the foot (a bit like a boom). A couple of examples:

http://www.sailingtexas.com/scaborico38a.html

http://www.boatshop.com.ph/brokerage/patience.htm

But from what you said, if the sail was mounted on the inner stay, it sounded like the foot of the sail and the "club foot" would extend behind the mast. This would mean you would need to disconnect the "club foot" every time you tacked.

And I have had to look up what a "solent" is:

An extra foresail with the halyard / stay going to the masthead (not part way down like the standard inner forestay), and with a fitting on the foredeck to attach the tack when needed.

http://www.svsarah.com/Whoosh/Boat%20Mods.htm

http://www.svsarah.com/Sarah/Solent%20Stay.htm

On his boat, the solent is an alternative to a traditional inner stay, not at addition. However, I guess both are possible, if the deck fitting for the solent was in front of the inner stay.

David, could your sail be an experimental sail for when the boat is not on a hard tack but pointing to high to set a spinaker? Had screechers been invented when your beautiful boat was racing.

I know this does not answer your question, but I have learnt a lot mulling over the alternative suggestions.

cheers

duckie
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Old 07-28-2007, 02:16 PM   #9
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Usually a spinnaker staysail was a small, light sail designed to fill the gap the between the spinnaker and the deck. These often has a relivetly short luff and long foot. Some boats expeimented with tall, narrow spinnaker staysails for reaching. "Bloopers" were light sails hoisted to leeward of the spinnaker and were almost as long on the luff. IOR racing baots usually had small mainsails and needed more downwind sail area. But none of these would haev reff points. A Solent jib--I think--is a full luff, short foot jib for breezy condtions . . .

In short, I don't know what it is!

Spencer
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Old 07-28-2007, 11:54 PM   #10
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Thanks all for your input. When I first saw the spinnaker staysail, I felt like a bit of a dill because I didn't know what it was or how to use it. It would appear that it is not a popular sail and one which cruisers have little knowledge of.

I have spent some time searching for answers on the net. Spencer provided the best information. It appears the Spinnaker Staysail, or Cheater, is indeed set inside the spinnaker, like a small, lightweight genoa. The idea of the cringles is to be able to add a boom to flatten the foot on a shortened sail, at all angles, to keep more air coming across the mainsail. It is essentially a racing sail.

The sail is like a gennaker and after measuring this one, I can report the foot is 44% of the length of the luff. North sails say the original Code Zero evolved from the spinnaker staysail.

So....what to do. I prefer shorthanded sailing and I am seldom in a hurry. I think I will keep the sail and, even though I have twin forestays (One inside the roller furler foil), I will not fit piston hanks, but use it as a light air genoa with an unrestrained luff.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

David
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:22 AM   #11
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As I said, I have learned a lot from the discussion.

Here is the link to the North Sails page about fre-flying "reachers/drifters" for cruising boats. They call theirs "G-0" after the Code 0 racing sails.

http://na.northsails.com/cruising_sails/G0QA.htm

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Old 07-29-2007, 03:37 AM   #12
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Thanks Duckie, it really appears that the adage 'everything old is new again' still applies. Cruiser Log remains a great place to learn. It's humbling to be amid so many truly knowledgable people who share their knowledge without reservation.

If you haven't done so already, download Jeanne's free e-book. It contains bags of good info gained from Jeanne and Peter's cruising experiences.

David.
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:33 PM   #13
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It is also possible that it is a "drifter" or "ghoster" which is a small spinnaker-weight jib that is used in ultra-light conditions. It is used in conditions where the wind is so light that you cannot actually "set" a large headsail - i.e. too light even for a #1 light genoa. It would typically be used to get a stationary boat moving in ultralight breeze conditions, so that once the boat is moving and has a little bit of apparent breeze, the #1 light would set.

If it is a ghoster, it is practically useless unless you are serious about your racing, because in any other situation, you would "hoist the iron topsail"! A friend of mine bought a quite well known old IOR 1-tonner that came with a "ghoster" in it's inventory. In nearly 3 years of racing that boat, we have used the ghoster only once that I can recall.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:36 AM   #14
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It is also possible that it is a "drifter" or "ghoster" which is a small spinnaker-weight jib that is used in ultra-light conditions. It is used in conditions where the wind is so light that you cannot actually "set" a large headsail - i.e. too light even for a #1 light genoa. It would typically be used to get a stationary boat moving in ultralight breeze conditions, so that once the boat is moving and has a little bit of apparent breeze, the #1 light would set.

If it is a ghoster, it is practically useless unless you are serious about your racing, because in any other situation, you would "hoist the iron topsail"! A friend of mine bought a quite well known old IOR 1-tonner that came with a "ghoster" in it's inventory. In nearly 3 years of racing that boat, we have used the ghoster only once that I can recall.
Hi Weyalan,

Also thought it might be ghoster - however the reefing cringles clouded that thought - it would be unlikely that one would reef it ?

Back to the drawing board.

Richard
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