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Old 06-12-2009, 04:10 PM   #1
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For those who aren't up to date I recently bought my first boat and am now living aboard... well long story short I bought big (in my book) because the concensus seems to be that if you go small you will want something bigger... so I figured I'd just cut out that time killer... So I'm now live-aboard on my very well kept Pearson 365... the catch is no one ever mentioned that if you buy big you may want something smaller... which I find I do... not sure what the opposite of claustraphobia is but I must have it a bit... not that I'm afraid of open spaces. There's nothing better than being mid atlantic surrounded by just the sky and sea.. but I also rather like cozy (read: small) spaces, not to mention it would be nice to have a little less WHITE... I was a marine so I'm a bit of a clean freak by some standards but this thing is always dirty... Just too much white and it's driving me mad...

ok, so maybe that wasn't very short but the crux of it is... I'm now considering selling her and building something smaller... as ever there's no such thing as the perfect stock boat plans... but I've found one pretty darn close... the only catch is she's a bit smaller than even I want... she's 22 LOD. I've talked to the company where I got the plans (glen-l) and they aren't intersted in doing any modifications to the plan for me to stretch her to abougt 26.

SO, reading up on scantlings rules and going back to center or effort (CE), center of lateral resistance (CLR), and capsize screening ratio (CS) calculations. It seems to me a pretty simple task to just duplicate the mid ship frame a couple of times to add the desired length... since the beam and displacement won't change (or at least she'll only get heavier) her CS should stay the same or improve. Which is one of my biggest concerns of course. She's full keeled with a transom hung rudder. So, while it may not be exact I'm thinking the CLR will just stay in the same relative location... For the CE I will of course have to draft out a sail plan, once again probably just splitting the difference in space gained, add a bit to the bowsprit, move the mast and expand the sails to make the CE the same or just aft of the CLR... strangely in the current plans the CE is like 2 feet forward of the CLR... which would give lee helm... which is a bit odd to me...

thought??
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:28 PM   #2
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With all respect, there are easier ways to throw your money away or getting an adrenalin rush.

What I am trying to say is that if you stretch a boat you ARE LOOKING FOR TROUBLE without a torch or a mirror. Not wanting to go into the engineering side of it, but it is NOT only about CE, CLR, CS and whatever other Cs ... it is about the only SEA and what she will do with the additional leverage you gave her to wreck your hull.

Good advise forget this.

Rather buy correct plans and build something you will love and somebody will want to buy later. Dudley Dix's designs are excellent for what you want to do - here is a good little boat - http://www.dixdesign.com/caribbea.htm
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:04 PM   #3
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After rereading this I do apologise if I came across to critically. I just do not wish to see you waste your money and your time building something dangerous that you think is safe!

Trust you understand!

Just BTW, even though I was in another war in another country I did the exact same course as you, so I know where you come from ... stay proud and believe in yourself!
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:15 AM   #4
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No offense taken... That's why i posted on here, for a sanity check.

I'll check out the dix site.
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Old 06-14-2009, 04:23 PM   #5
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Hi, there!

Having just finished an exhausting 2.5 year hull rebuild (and we're still working on the rig...and really have only scratched the surface on the interior...) I'd suggest you look long and hard at keeping the boat you purchased and making small changes that would suit you OR finding a boat that was already built by someone else. The cost factor will be significant--you will find a better boat cheaper if you can just "find it" out there.

We all have those "oh, my God!" moments of "this just isn't the right boat for me" and "why did I buy it" from time to time. I just researched which boat you did buy--a Pearson 365 ketch! A wonderful cruising boat, for sure.

When considering a cruising boat, you may turn to Annie Hill's book Voyaging on a Small Income. She does a wonderful job of discussing getting into the smallest boat you can that will allow you to voyage with sufficient tools and supplies on board to support your cruising life. If you get into too small of a boat, you are most certainly placing yourself in a limiting position of coastal cruising or risking not having the right equipment aboard for the cruising you will encounter. You will not be able to stock up on supplies when/where you find them inexpensively. You will be at the whim of mechanics and marine repair personnel rather than having the ability to fix things simply because you may not have the tools or spare parts aboard. You also are limiting your ability to take on crew comfortably when you get into a 26 foot boat. Think long and hard about what you wish to do with your boat and what your goals may be.

Identifying the things that are a problem--too much white space to keep clean is very different than too much boat to handle. You'll be happy for the speed and oceangoing safety of the larger boat if you feel that you're not having problems handling the boat on your own. Conversely, there are many ways to turn "white space" into something else that is more homey and suits your style and personality. If the white space is below decks, you can add wood accents or even strategic wood veneers on bulkheads, etc. If the white space is the hull and deck, consider more traditional paint scheme when you need to re-paint the topsides and consider a glue-down/laminated teak deck (like the one Trim 50 did and shared info about here on CL).

If you're still just hankering for a "traditional" boat with "traditional" lines and feel (you know I understand this need very well!)--well, go out there and look at the reasonably priced ones on the market before considering an entire new build.

What are the specifics of the issues you're dealing with that are keeping you from thinking this is the right boat for YOU? I'm sure it would help other CL members to both better understand what you're going through and it may help them with their own selection of cruising vessel as well.

Warm regards,

Brenda and David
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:45 PM   #6
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Thanks for your insight as always Brenda,

Your absolutely right... my discontents with the boat I have now are pretty foolish... she is sound, sails well and easily, and has LOADS of space... it really is as you say just that "hankering for a traditional boat"...

I think the biggest impediment now is that even if I want to sale her and find something more traditional I can't feasibly do that without loosing a lot of money... it's a buyers market... I loved it when I was looking but now that I find myself on the other end of the spectrum it's not so fun... I paid a pretty low price for her but I've already pumped nearly her purchase price into her again in upgrades, and there's no way I would recoup that if I sold...

So.. as you say, it's time for some creative innovation... i never thought of using veneers inside... she definitely needs carpet but now I'm thinking another big step up in below deck appearances would be to cover the very white overhead with a wood veneer which would actually be pretty easy since it's mostly a lot of open space with relatively few fittings through bolted... ... and paint for the outside would also definitely help mask the production boat look.... I think the next haul out may be an extensive one...

Since you asked... one other specific thing about this boat which I find very irritating is not that I don't have enough space... to the contrary, she has just too many huge spaces... my lazarettes could easily be converted into quarter berths, as is they house my hot water heater, batteries, and charger suite but there's still a lot of open room which is difficult to use because whatever you need is always on the very bottom and you have to emptly the whole bloody locker to get to it... same with interior storage space... the fridge is HUGE... probably close to the size of most domestic fridges... but it's top loading... so to keep it organized you have to leave a lot of dead space.... at the moment I just keep it mostly full of bottled water to act as a cold sink... but I also have 150 gallons of water in tankage... I don't need all the extra bottled water and I feel like I'm being robbed of a lot of good storage space... I am considering several options for mooving the fridge, or making it smaller to open up space for dry storage but the way it's built any modifications will quickly become a big job since the whole counter has about 3 inches of insulation which is glassed in... so removing it would probably mean tearing out the whole kitchen and rebuilding the counter space... do-able but not fun ...

you know rereading this I feel pretty dumb as these are some pretty lame complaints... "boohoo, i've got to much space"... well if nothing else I've gotten to vent and realize how silly these problems are.

thanks as always.
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Old 06-19-2009, 04:59 PM   #7
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Hi, there again!

I'm glad you're thinking about things you can do to personalize the boat and make it more the way that you want it to be.

About all that "space"...this is a common complaint among boat owners--big lockers with no divides. The opposite is small drawers and bins that none of your stuff fits into

There are some happy middle grounds, lucky us. For the lockers that are endlessly large, you do need to figure out what you will be storing there and either build a shelf (fiberglass-in a wood shelf for example) or find "sub-compartment" type storage units. Something like milk crates, plastic shoeboxes, rubbermaid bins, etc. These can go into those big-big spaces and make it easier to pull things out quickly when you need them, too. This type of customizing is something that most cruisers end up doing at some point or another.

Regarding your 'frig--you can just simply use milk crates or other removable bins to make getting at things quick and easy. Further, if you're into changing it at some point, look at how much insulation it has--if only 3", that is not enough. Many folks advocate 6" of insulation for good refrigeration even though most boat manufacturers "short" folks by providing not enough insulation but a "big" box inside. That, of course, is because most folks want a huge frig and aren't thinking about its efficiency that much. You can google and find examples of people re-insulating their refrigerators or building a new box where the old one was--the common complaint is that now their refrigerated space is too small

Regarding your white walls and sole--definitely look to personalizing there as well. The fellow who purchased our Rawson 30 last year has been veneering the inside with some thin redwood that he happened to own; this makes the boat have home-like cabin in the woods feel! This suits his personality perfectly as he's from Northern California and spent years living in essentially a cabin in the woods

Many times a custom interior becomes a "feature" when you're selling a boat. We've heard countless times about production boats that have had excellent woodworking accents added on the interior and those features make the boat more desirable.

I'm certain there are numerous details that you can change/enhance to allow your boat to have a more traditional and comfy feel and this will make you happy.

Please keep us up to date on your progress. Also--please feel free to start some discussion on this whole large-locker sub-divide thing as I think many CL readers would be interested. As you may be aware, we are living in a boat that is almost a bare hull and we've had to be very creative to store and organize the things we need. Since ours is a wood boat, we do have the structural members of bilge stringer, clamp, and shelf to hang things from. As such, we have at least 20 duffel bags of various colors and types which store a variety of tools and gear. We have duffels (further subdivided as needed) with labels of "electrical" or "rigging" or "spare engine parts" and each is strapped to the bilge stringer or sheer clamp in an out-of-the-way-but-easy-to-get-to location. The folding bike is in its bag hanging from the sheer clamp, I've got a fabric shoe-organizer hanging on the main saloon wall where it helps us organize small tools, cel phone chargers, the cat's life vest, and numerous other things that need to be close at hand but add to clutter. Someday, we'll have drawers to put all that stuff in--but in the meanwhile, this is working for us. It is not as homey or traditional as I'd like, but it is working for me to be able to see the brightly colored duffel bags and know what is in each one. I'm sure you'll find some equally creative solutions to your own storage challenges.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:00 PM   #8
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Yup, that's pretty much what I'm doing now also... instead of duffels however I've opted in the way of nice big colorful toolboxes, which don't have much weight themselves to stuff full of things for the lazarette... it does help but when I need something in the box on the bottom I still end up with half a dozen monstrous tool boxes stacked in the cockpit... which isn't that big a deal I suppose, just a hassle...
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atavist View Post
....it does help but when I need something in the box on the bottom I still end up with half a dozen monstrous tool boxes stacked in the cockpit... which isn't that big a deal I suppose, just a hassle...
For our boat to be in good trim, we've found ourselves loading all the tools and heavy stuff quite far forward. As such, many bags and bins of tools and spare fasteners (which are quite heavy, I'll have you know) reside under the bed in our stateroom. Almost every morning, David pulls out half of them and they're strewn around on the sole, on the bed, everywhere...until that evening when he has to put them away in order to go to bed.

Once we're doing "less" in the way of projects, we won't be pulling all that stuff out but right now its a daily thing.

Fair winds,
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Old 06-24-2009, 01:51 PM   #10
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glad to know I'm not the only one that has to deal with this hassle
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Old 06-28-2009, 07:30 AM   #11
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I found a company that can do images in powder-coat. Anything they can print, they can powder-coat right onto a metallic surface. I've been considering installing a new headliner of aluminum sheets powder-coated with an image of the sky, much like a Renaissance Cathedral. I would glue foam to the backside of the aluminum for insulation and sound-deadening.

Also, almost every cabinet door has one or two large stainless vents in it. While these are fantastic for airflow, they ruin the look of the wood doors. The stainless vents can be powder-coated to look just like the wood doors!

Heck, if my boat were traditional-looking I could have the aluminum mast made to look like wood. I could even have it made to look like an intricately-carved totem pole.... Fortunately my boat looks more like a WWII Destroyer, on which a totem-pole mast would be ridiculous.

There are lots of ways to dress up the interior, but I'm not sure what you should do about all the extra locker space. Filling it with diving gear would be my first thought. A few tanks, BCs, and an underwater sled should just about do it.
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