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Old 03-27-2007, 10:30 AM   #21
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Watermaker types

Efficient, energy recovery, DC systems.

Dc Systems and AC systems.

Motor driven.

Efficient dc systems use about 1 amp hour per gallon (at 12 volts). If you have solar panels or a wind gen then you won't need to run your motor to make water. Two people aboard, about 8 gallons of water use per day, about 8 amp hours of battery use. This equates to about 1 1/2 hours of solar panel use for a 130 watt solar panel. Easily giving you the rest of the day to charge the batteries for use by refrigeration and lighting. You never need to run an engine or generator. Units are Schenker and Spectra. The dc motors are NOT large. Cost is very high.

Regular DC and AC systems do not use energy recovery pumps but use 2.5 to 10 amp hours per gallon. Village marine, PUR (quasi efficient) and most other units fit this category. This means running a generator or engine as energy consumption is excessive. Cost is much less or anyone can put together their own system using off the shelf parts. You get what you pay for. A low cost watermaker which uses a ton of electricity....this isn't KISS as you have generated a new problem of electrical consumption, now requiring the running of the engine.

If you are having to run your motor or generator to make water then why not use a motor driven unit? Advantages are, primarily, removing the electric wiring and high pressure motors, saving some space and removing a little complexity. Some motor driven systems are much cheaper to purchase or build.

Basically if you don't mind running a generator/engine for an hour each day then the spectra or schenker energy recovery sytems have no advantage for you and a motor driven unit is feasible and cost effective.

JMO
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Old 03-27-2007, 10:35 PM   #22
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Spike....I used the term "Large DC" in comparison to what I use on daily basis, ie Maxon, Faulhaber. I just meant large & expensive.
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Old 03-28-2007, 05:43 AM   #23
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Actually the inefficient dc and ac systems do use largeģ motors as they must generate the 800 psi through brute force. Large still being relative but 1 hp motors are very typical.
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Old 03-28-2007, 06:04 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post
An "alternative" watermaker (towed) HERE

Prices HERE
Impressive. Worth a look. The cost, output, and maintenance requirements, seem a reasonable alternative to some other systems.

They seem to have addressed all of the issues, have good answers, and a good KISS design, with an optional 12 VDC motor for operation in becalmed waters, and optional hand pump for use in a life raft.

At first glance, seeing the towed design, Newtons' Laws of Motion came to mind. I am thinking the prop is going to make the whole arrangement twist from the attachment point on the rail, clear back to the prop. The prop will apply a rotational force to the tow tube, in the opposite direction of the prop pitch, winding it up it's flexibility limits. Or at least to the point where it takes less force to drive the pump.

Then I questioned the flat metal panel at the front of the device. What is its purpose, anti-rotation, a planner board to keep it at a stable and pre-designed depth, or both axisís?

Perhaps neither of my observations are of concern, and have been countered in the design. I have a curious mind and like to understand how things work.

I wonder about the towed design; it being towed with a 26 foot / 8 M tow tube. In another topic of water driven electrical generators, we discussed large fish biting off props. This towed design may appear as lunch to large sea creatures.
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Old 06-16-2007, 04:18 AM   #25
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This months BWS has a great article about choosing water makers. "Choose wisely a watermaker" by Sam Mazza. Page 72

He comes to the same conclusion as I that an AC water maker is the most efficient way to go if you have a genset. The article is worth reading.
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Old 06-17-2007, 01:43 PM   #26
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We have a Sea Recovery Ultra Whisper [which like the Spectra uses a pump to give high volume with low DC current [relatively]. So far we have been very happy with the unit overall. Remember all watermakers require some degree of care and feeding. Units are available that are between 200-400 gallons/day.
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:58 AM   #27
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I agree with JMO. For regular cruising you don't really need a watermaker and it's right you always need to carry an emergency backup. BUT, i't gives you the freedom to stay as long as you like and I found it very and very comforting, especially on the long runs, to know that we always had fresh, absolutly non-contemniated water. I heard to much stories about dirty tanks, water turning rotten just after leaving for a Pacific crossing. Brrrr.

Even here applies the KISS-rule. No electronics, no remote devices, just some hoses and valves. In our 2-year circumnavigation we used a Village Marine Little Wonder 12V. It delivered about 25 liter/minute taking 15 Amps.

No hassle installing, not one problem during usage. Maintenance is easy and, when regular used, hardly nessecary.

The trouble with malfunctioning is that a lot of installers and cruisers mess around with installation-instructions. Wrong intake, bad plumbing, to long hoses, etc.

It's one of the devices (among SSB and Windpilot, we will definitly carry with us on our next trip. Which will have to wait approx. 18 years...

Jan
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluh20 View Post
I sell Village, RWO and Spectra. My Spectra customers have been the most satisfied with their units.
I've heard the same thing from many people that have Spectra. Is there any particular reason that Spectra seems to be better?
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Old 06-26-2007, 12:09 AM   #29
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HOLLY COW!!!!!!!!!!

Just got off the phone with Spectra Distributor...they want $13,550.00 for the Newport 700. No wonder Spectra Customers are so pleased...they must still be in shock or extremely wealthy.
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Old 06-26-2007, 01:42 AM   #30
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HOLLY COW!!!!!!!!!!

Just got off the phone with Spectra Distributor...they want $13,550.00 for the Newport 700. No wonder Spectra Customers are so pleased...they must still be in shock or extremely wealthy.
How much water maker do you need?? We sized ours so it can replace the daily useage in the time we normally run something to charge batteries. We figure the two of us use max 25 gal/day. Our 300 gal/day unit puts out about 12 gal/hr. Figure running engine or generator an hour or two a day for hot water or... that way we replace water at no additional expense. If there is wind the wind generator keeps us even anyway and can make water whenever..
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:15 AM   #31
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Is no one planning to make his own? I know I brought this up some place here--my husband spent $3000 on the parts for an AC 45-gph watermaker. (Or it can be used for 22 gph with one membrane--less money). Big membranes, but they work for us as our boat isn't small. Not modern certainly, but comfortable and full of the mod cons that I enjoy at my age--including showering capability at anchorages removed from shore water. I've hauled water and I've washed in buckets. I'd rather not do that any longer.

The watermaker parts can be spaced all around the boat.

Just a thought.

Normandie
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:55 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
How much water maker do you need??
I want 30-40gal/hr. such that I can replace water while charging batteries while running genset for an hour to 90 minutes.

And yes, I've gone through all the numbers on building my own. I put it at $2000-$2500 to spend a bunch of time on something that I don't feel like spending time on other than install.

Water Works seems to have some very reasonably priced systems...

http://www.qwwinc.com/

This is pretty much what I priced out if I built one myself, so they aren't over priced like others.
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:09 AM   #33
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Hi all,

I can't recall where, or if, I posted anything on cruiserlog about our experience with Spectra, so apologies if this is a repeat!

I've had two Spectras...loved 'em both. Each unit went with each boat when I sold. I relied on Spectra water for seven years overall. No gripes at all about the Spectra 380 or the company what-so-ever.

The first unit I bought in '99 cracked the 'spool' inside the Clark Pump. One email and few days later the spool showed up in the Virgin Islands.

The second unit ran fine for five years, but did begin to develop some minor leaks on some SS compression fittings. Instead of just replacing those fittings on my end Spectra had (as of last fall) an upgraded Clark Pump swap-program available for around 400 or 500usd. We went that way and the improvements on the Clark Pump were visually noticable. Even though we were selling the boat we thought it worthwhile for the new owners.

The people we dealt with at Spectra were always responsive, friendly and seemed eager to resolve issues. We'll probably go with another Spectra next year unless......

Does anyone know what a Spectra 380 (or current like model) is going for now? Both of mine were around 5,500usd.

I see that Schenker has a watermaker that looks very much like a Spectra.....anyone have one of these? Or know the cost? I saw a post somewhere online that mentioned a guy bought one for 3,000 less then a Spectra??? I'm wondering if it's a knock-off or licensed thing?

We are pure DC types, so, so far, the best thing we've found for us is the Spectra. If we did have a gen or diesel engine we'd make our own AC watermaker. A couple buddies had made theirs in Oz for around 2,500usd and they put out heaps of water. I think they ran it for 15 minutes a day and washed the boat down for the hell of it at the same time just because they could.

For anyone that's interested...we'd go through ten to fifteen gallons of water per day with two adults and a young one for all our use. We'd opt for buckets showers on the deck 'cause we are too lazy to squeggee down the shower every time....that saves tons of water!

Btw, we are not wealthy and hate to work more then we have to and do not like to throw cash around randomly. The Spectra had proven reliable and it's made life incredibly convenient and comfortable and I've never once regretted spending the money on it. ...but if anyone knows of a like-quality, like-output and like-effecient dc h20 maker for lots less we're all ears!!

best -J
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Old 06-26-2007, 03:28 AM   #34
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I don't think it would be that difficult to build an AC version of the intensifier pump design to achieve higher efficiency in a home built water maker. The hydraulic intensifier can be purchased from Parker and modified.

http://www.hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/FP...True/6404/Pumps
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Old 06-30-2007, 10:34 PM   #35
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When we set out in 1993, I installed an AC driven system, the generator coped well for a while, but it turned out that the generator would give us more problems over the years than any other piece of gear on the boat.

So I soon added an engine driven pump in to the same system, that way I always had a backup, plus if we had to motor for a time I would turn on the water maker and fill up the tanks, or if the sailing was good just run the generator and switch on the AC pump.

Most of the systems I have seen use the same cat type high pressure pumps, as does mine, I found out that the pumps output was able to handle more membranes than my system had, so I added 2 more membranes and gained twice the fresh water output for the same running time. Worth looking in to.

The system I have came from SeaFresh in the UK and has never failed.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:15 AM   #36
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Hello, handy home built watermakers. I do have an PUR 35 Power Surviver, the membrane fails so I have to buy a new one, wich coast far to much.

I'm thinking to buying a intensifier pump and connect it on the 12 volt DC motor. Will this DC motor be strong anough to drive the pump? It has an 36/1 reduction box. What type of standard membranes I have to use, 1 or 2 membranes. I don't need an high waterproduction, I only have an 35' sailingboat. Has anyone experience with this type of things please, or do someone has an better option. Where can I find a building plan,,,,,, Al sugestions are welcome. Willy. < mbu745 at gmail.com >
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Old 09-23-2015, 06:01 PM   #37
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Thumbs up Little Wonder 110V AC motor

I've been using a Little Wonder watermaker, with a 110V AC motor, for several years now. Found it to be quite energy efficient, and provides more than enough water for my drinking/showering/cleaning needs. Here's an article I found on the Little Wonder today, outlining some of it's advantages: Little Wonder Watermakers (Desalinizadores) & Parts
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