DROGUES AND SEA ANCHORS

[Didereaux]

Adlard Coles "Heavy Weather Sailing" edited by Peter Bruce 30th ed is completely updated. Most of what is being discussed in this thread is now covered in it. Still contains the original stuff, just expanded and updated. Worth the bucks...really.

It's a great book - very useful. It is listed on the "Books" page:

http://www.cruiser.co.za/books.asp

[Jack Tyler]

I'm glad to hear Coles' book has been truly updated (vs. just reissued); I haven't read it. WRT Auzzee's interest in first hand accounts, I highly recommend Drag Device Data Base, Ed. IV which has organized first-hand accounts, all written around a structured report form, for both mono and multi-hulls, for boats of all sizes.

Jack

Hello

I am new to this forum and felt I should respond to this post.

First I am an amature sailer, about ten year ago I sailed a Westerly 26 and owned her for 5 years, so I do have a little sailing experience.

How ever I do have a lot of sea exsperience as I have fished a 42 foot wood boat off the west coast of the USA for 26 years fishing albacore una up about 1,200 miles off shore.

I have seen over 100 knots of wind several times and over 130 once with hurrible seas.

What worked best fo me over the years in these condition was a simple stern warp, 300 foot of 1 inch nylon with a 35 pound lead wieght attached in the middle and each end of the nylon line atachhed to a stern cleat on each side of the stern, take the boat out of gear and let it tend it's self. The boat would go with the seas at a controlled rate and the seas that did board from the stearn wearn't violet. On the other had most of the boats that put out sea anchors off of the bow lost windows and suffured damage because there boat were fighting the seas rather than going with the.

If I were going off shore I would recommend having a simple stern warp made up and kept where is was easy to deploy. Also chafing material were it is fastened to the stern.

I am not stating what is right or wrong here just what has worked for the fishing fleet that is at see in all kinds of weather.

Some times I do wonder exactly what kind of experience people have that give advice.

sorry so long

Dennis

[Auzzee]

Hi Dennis, Thank you for relating your experiences. This is exactly the style of feedback which permits those with lesser experience, such as myself, to be able to make better decisions. Please post your observations at every possible opportunity. Thanks heaps. David

[JeanneP]

Thanks from me, too, Dennis. Here on the East Coast we are also familiar with long warps towed in bad weather, again courtesy of the long hard experience of the commercial fishing boats. I first learned of towing a sea drogue from a trimaran sailor, who found that the additional resistance of the drogue slowed them down better than just towing a long warp. It's scary surfing down waves half again, or twice as fast as the hull speed of your boat. First time that happened to Peter he found himself yelling "whoa, horsey!" Anything that can slow the boat and bring it back under the helmsman's control is a good thing.

Like I said I am new to the forum.

A little history

I have been reading every thing I can find on sailing, as a long time dream of mine is finally going to come true.

We have sold the fishing boat and I am retiring, and in a year will start my social security.

We are in the prcess of looking for a boat to do some serious criusing.

Back to the subject of drougs, the coast guard at Astoria, Oregon did some vary intensive testing, this was a two year study off of the Columbia river bar in severe winter conditions. And believe me the conditions there can be horrible. In a storm you can feel the effects of the Columbia river over 50 miles off shore.

I will see if I can find that and post a link here.

Dennis

Para Anchor- personal experience

We found ourselves grazed by a typhoon south of Japan on a transpac journey. 70kts plus and mountainous seas. Deployed a 24' diameter Para-tech sea anchor on 600' of 3/4" braid. This held us bow-to for over 36 hours at a drift rate of 0-.2kts as per our two GPS's.

Best defence, of course is to avoid the storm. Plan B included the Sea Anchor. Secured it to the mast and used plenty of chafe gear.

Chafe turned out to be our biggest problem through the night and following day. If there's a next time, I've built a chain bridle to attach to the 550' of rode.

IMO these anchors work.

Bruce

SV Trionos- Hong Kong

[Jack Tyler]

Bruce, please tell us how you would set up the chain bridle at the bow. Some detail about the bow and its hardware as well as the attachment plan would be useful info. You certainly can't have chafe with chain; it will saw off parts of the boat.

Jack

[Didereaux]

I would rather know exactly what type of boat it was used on, it's keel type, its lines, displacement etc. Sea anchors work for some and not others, the only reason can be the boat.

The Pardeys swear by these things, but set them on a bridle such that they are angled, yet other boats are unable to stabilize this way because they are far different style from the Pardeys Hess boat.

So, give me the boats data and the exact method of deployment, then and only then can I or anyone else begin to evaluate its possible usefullness for my situation.

[Didereaux]

I believe this is the link to the Coast Guard drogue tests.

http://www.sailrite.com/drogue_information.htm

g'Luk

http://www.sailrite.com/drogue_information.htm

[Swagman]

Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'

Originally posted by Didereaux

I would rather know exactly what type of boat it was used on, it's keel type, its lines, displacement etc. Sea anchors work for some and not others, the only reason can be the boat.

Surely all the options (para anchor / drogue / hove to / running away) will work to some extent - but it's a question of which works most effectively in the given situation for the design of yacht?

In my opinion, until such time as one can get four equal boats all skippered by the similar qualified people in the same bit of ocean at the same time and all using one of the differing methods, we'll never be able to say for sure what really is best. That's the kind of gear / practical test a yachting magazine should take on - I'm sure it would be appreciated by all readers!

I personally find it hard to put my faith in the methods used by Lyn / Larry Pardy as they sailed a much more traditional designed yacht than we do. As todays typical cruiser designs are vastly different designs - and alternative methodologies have equally proved to have worked by other experienced sailors - I'm not sure a sea anchor is best for everyone.

If anyone out there has positive experence using a sea anchor on a medium / light displacement monohull I'd love to hear about it and maybe modify my own preferences to run away before bad weather.

Cheers

JOHN

[Jack Tyler]

Dennis, congrats on moving from one form of work (fishing) to another (cruising).<g> Given your plans, I'd encourage you to come over to the SSCA website if you're not already a member, familiarize yourself with its services and especially to visit the Discussion Board, which is populated by a significant percentage of long-term full-time cruising sailors. There are other useful boards to visit as well, including this one...but the resources at the SSCA Board coupled with the very useful content in their CD containing 10 years of their monthly Bulletins from cruisers all over the world would be a very useful - and inexpensive - resource for you during your boat search and subsequent cruising.

Website: ssca.org

Discussion Board: http://ssca.org/sscabb/index.php

CD and other publications: available in Member's Section

Jack

Para-anchor Personal experience

Re-my previous post: For our yacht, during the typhoon we were in south of Japan, our para-anchor worked as advertised and we wouldn't leave home without one in future. Ours is a 50' sloop, fin keel, 28000lb displ. We have read and seen most of Pardy's material on the subject and found the bridle he suggested was useless. Our furled headsail seemed to cause the bow to fall off the wind and in doing so kept us yawed as we drifted slowly very slowly. This did create the 'slick' the Pardy's speak off without the constant attention to a second bridle. As mentioned we used 600' of nylon braid, securred to the mast and run through the anchor roller (pinned- to prevent the rope from jumping out.) Used sections of old fire hose as chafe guards but chafe still became enemy # one.

In the conditions we were in, it was impossible the see the marker buoy indicating the chute position. We therefore never adjusted the rode to any changing wavelength there may have been.

I have now built a chain bridle secured to our two bow cleats using large snubbers. Two short chains (4')into a D ring, then attached to a longer 30' chain run through the anchor roller and pinned. This is then attached to 550' of rode. This has been tested rough south china sea conditions and we found very little movement through the roller.

I can only comment on what has worked for our sloop, in a rather untidy storm. Hope some of this info helps.

Bruce