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Old 09-17-2012, 06:51 PM   #1
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Default Sink ideas

I'm looking for ideas for my galley sink.

Currently I have a delta single hole single handle faucet with both sides connected to pressurized cold water. I don't have a water heater.

I have pressurized raw water under the galley right now. There is a tap in the cockpit locker and I can use the hose in the galley to pre-clean dishes. I carry very little fresh water and I try to use salt water wherever I can to maximize my use of fresh.

One idea is to change to a two handle faucet and connect one side to fresh and the other to salt. This will work unless I install a water heater which I have no intention of doing.

My concern is that salt water will kill the hardware in short order.

Does anyone have experience with this? Any better ideas?
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:14 PM   #2
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No new ideas, but I was wondering how you get pressure. Assuming an electric pump, does it run occasionally to maintain pressure against slow leaks, or is it turned on only when needed?
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:19 AM   #3
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I installed salt water to the galley in a couple of previous boats. A single hose line from a dedicated through hull (manifold is not much good as other salt inlets will suck air back through the galley line) straight to a sink mounted pump is very efficient. I used a brass fynspray pump. ( Harbourside Chandlery ) . They are a bit expensive, and a small less expensive stirrup pump will do the job as well, but won't look as neat. These pumps have a free ball operated one way valve and the diaphragms are leather and can be easily and inexpensively replaced (make your own) when the abrasivness of the salt reduces the seal. The sealing gland around the shaft is adjusted against leaks in the same way as a stern gland. Very practical and very efficient. The problem remains where to mount it. Might have to chop another hole in the sink.

I hope I have correctly identified the problem. If not, I accept I will be tied to the mast and flogged.
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Old 09-18-2012, 02:45 AM   #4
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We have a sink set up as you plan. Ours has pressurized salt water going to where the hot would normally go and it has non-pressure fresh water going to the cold water faucet. We did go with separate taps rather than one tap with a mixer. Our faucets are high quality ones, yes, but we suspect the salt water will corrode things more quickly than fresh, of course. If we do decide to add hot water to the sink, we'll put a third tap on the sink for it. We use the stove to heat up a pot of hot water when needed. If it is for washing dishes, I heat up salt water. I just do the final rinse with (cold) fresh water. All's good.

Our pressure salt water uses the same 12V pump that we use for our salt-water deck wash pump. It is on the entire time we're aboard the boat. We turn off the breaker when we leave the boat (along with closing thru-hulls if we're not on shore power). There are no slow leaks. If there is one, the pump will cycle, yes--that's why'll immediately you fix any such slow leaks.

It is easy for folks to set up a foot pump at the galley for fresh water--and since you use so much less water if it is not pressurized, I don't really know that I'd ever put pressurized water in the kitchen or head. On the other hand, I DO have a fresh water pressure system installed because it was required for the washer. I suppose most people would go ahead and use that system for the galley, too, but I just can't bring myself to waste water!

PS Auzzee--check valves are useful.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:39 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
PS Auzzee--check valves are useful.
Hi Brenda,
The use of check valves has always been somewhat of concern to me. I always used to use them. However a surveyor friend pointed out that boats in survey for commercial charter work must not install them in lines leading directly to a seawater intake. He gave several good reasons for this all related to failures, floodings and the masking effects check valves can have on primary hardware which has already partially failed.

Indeed, it appears to be a controversial topic.

I use check valves for internal closed systems as in the fresh water pumps, but won't use them for seawater systems. (Closely associated with this topic is the use of vented loops. Never to be used on bilge pumps, but a telltale on the raw water outlet for the donk, and many toilet systems require the installation of a siphon break).

This is the reason why I recommended a single line feed to a hand pump from a dedicated through hull for a salt water wash system.

I would be genuinely interested to hear discussion on this topic as I confess I am still truthfully undecided even though I don't use check valves on sea water lines.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:49 PM   #6
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Wow. Thanks, guys.

I already have a salt water system with a through hull and a pump. Typically I leave the through hull closed and the breaker off when I'm not using it. As Peep says, it is the deck-wash system. It is already plumbed to within 3 feet of my sink. A simple T and a piece of hose and the system is finished once the sink hardware is in place.

I currently have a hose in the cockpit as part of this system and can do dishes by either bringing them on deck and washing them in my folding bucket or by bringing the hose/spray nozzle inside. Total distance is maybe a couple feet. Simple and it works, so one option is to do nothing at all.

I also have a pressurized system for fresh water which is there mostly because it has always been there. I have a foot pump system which failed recently, so I need to replace the pump in my copious free time.

The boat is small, the galley is small, the sink is small. There is currently a faucet similar to this.

with both sides plumbed together with fresh cold pressure water. This unit failed about a year and a half ago and with some effort I replaced it with an exact copy, but I may have purchased the last unit on the planet. It was difficult to find. It is a one-hole system and needs to be physically small.

There is also a small pump-based system to the side which, as I said, doesn't work at the moment.

Space being an issue, I imagine that if I switched to something more like this.

It seems simple to plumb the salt water to the hot side. The question is: will it survive the salt water? Even if it lasted 5 years at a time, that would be reasonably OK as long as the parts were readily available to replace or rebuild it, though I dislike the notion of systems that are planned to self-destruct just because they tend to fail when I am busy and enough such systems means one of them will constantly be a problem.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:28 AM   #7
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Hi Coyote, On a hunch I just googled 'taps for medical use' and in deference to the other side of the world, 'faucets for medical use'. There are some interesting combinations, most of which use the 'paddle'rather than the knob (and let's face it the last thing you want is some knob in your galley) to turn on the water.
Here's an example Healthcare bathroom & kitchen products, assisted lever taps, self closing non concussive taps
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:36 AM   #8
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Auzzee--

A pressurized salt water system will not take air from the galley tap because the galley tap has a valve on it. Check valves do have controversy associated with them--yep. We have our bilge pumps set up with the sort of vented loop which doesn't have a check valve but rather has a little hose going from atop the loop to a high point inside the boat. Most people will feed that little hose out onto the deck--but we've not done so because our "high point" near the overhead is higher than deck level.

We went round-and-round on the single thru hull vs many and just went with one and a manifold. The manifold has ball valves to shut off flow to engine, genset, or deck wash line (which includes the head sink and the galley sink both on a "t"). We do keep the ball valves on the manifold shut off when the item is not in use (e.g. genset one will be closed except when charging using it).

One of the nice things about the manifold is that it is set up so the deck wash pump line is the "highest" take-off of the system. Therefore, though the thru hull is very low in the boat, when we're motorsailing along at a good clip--or even just motoring at a good pace--there are bubbles that come into the "system" and we can see them in the big raw water strainer (an 18" or so clear cylindrical thing) as the thru hull and strainer and manifold are in the head adjacent the head sink. We can just turn on the salt water in the head sink (ah, hem...don't think fancy, that sink is actually just a big red funnel screwed to the wall with a drain line on it... ) and "drain" the air from the system. Nice.

Our galley taps don't have knobs--they're real taps with levers. Reproduction taps from Strom Plumbing (this is the catalog pic showing use in a bathroom but it works well for our galley).

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Old 09-19-2012, 03:37 AM   #9
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Taps!

I didn't think of that.

Those are kinda pricy. Though I would rather pay more for something that will last - to an extent.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
e.

Our galley taps don't have knobs--they're real taps with levers. Reproduction taps from Strom Plumbing (this is the catalog pic showing use in a bathroom but it works well for our galley).

Wow. Those are pretty. And small.

What are they like internally? Will they handle the salt water?
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:48 AM   #11
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They're actually BIG for a bathroom tap. From the center of the mounting hole to the spout is a hair under 6". I always wanted to put these in my house bathrooms but they were the wrong era (they're sort of Edwardian) and style for my house. Perfect for the boat.

Insides--as I recall they're the new style with ceramic disk valves rather than the old style ones with rubber o-rings that are more typical of "old" faucets/taps.

The shiny "varnish" over the brass is beginning to be penetrated (they've been aboard about 18 months in use) . It has a lifetime warranty but somehow I think they wouldn't uphold it if they knew I was using it with salt water!
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:43 PM   #12
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Another issue is that my sink is so small that the only way I can get a larger pot in it is to swivel the faucet out of the way, put the pot in, and swivel it back. This is a minor inconvenience, but it does mean I can't have anything fixed over the sink.

Maybe my best use case is to use the hose from the cockpit. K.I.S.S.
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