Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Multihull Club
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-27-2012, 09:27 PM   #29
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,225
Default

Since I'm starting with a dead engine and almost no electrics fitted, one possibility is to remove the diesel entirely and rely on solar alone for the basic systems.

This is how a friend of ours recently sank. Very experienced cruiser who really could sail anything in any conditions. He had no money for fixing the engine in the boat, took the engine out, went cruising, boat started slow leak he couldn't find, solar couldn't keep up with the bilge pumps, even with his manual pump and all, he slowly sank over a 4 day period while trying to get to port. Luckily an SOS he made was heard and a US warship on exercises off Mexico picked him up.

A manual windlass has less stuff that can go wrong, and can be repaired easily. Even then solar may be enough for an electric windlass as long as you're not raising and lowering the hook on an hourly basis.

There is very little difference between a manual windlass and an electric one. Our experience in what typically goes wrong is related to the brake (manually applied on our electric windlass) and the wildcat (may wear from use) as well as the chain break (the thing which also wears as it is used to help direct the chain into the hawse/locker below the wildcat). In theory the clutch (manually applied on our electric windlass) should be considered a maintenance item as well. Many electric ones can be used in the manual mode (as our can, albeit slower than using the electric motor on it). I've seen the Pardeys, among others, write that if one requires 5/16" chain or larger, one should have a hydraulic or manual windlass. You will find that a good electric windlass and battery (as long as you have a charger...which I see you will have since you're planning so many radios and whatnot) will be less costly than an equally good quality manual (only) windlass. Unfortunately, manual windlasses of high quality are really hard to come by these days.

The originator of the topic--electric vs diesel--probably doesn't appreciate our diversion. I'd love to ask, again, if he or anyone else with a multihull has considered hydraulic drive with a single diesel engine? I would think that would be quite nice.

Fair winds,
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 03:36 AM   #30
Admiral
 
haiqu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Home Port: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Keppelena
Posts: 1,519
Default

Wouldn't worry about the OP Brenda, he hasn't posted on this topic since 2008.

Rob
__________________

__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen

I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: All sections
haiqu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 07:09 AM   #31
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,225
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by haiqu View Post
Wouldn't worry about the OP Brenda, he hasn't posted on this topic since 2008.

Rob
I said "I'd love to ask, again, if he or anyone else with a multihull has considered hydraulic drive with a single diesel engine? I would think that would be quite nice."
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2012, 10:56 PM   #32
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Gone Troppo
Posts: 103
Default

Hydraulic drives can get very noisy at an annoying freq. Only seen one and it was a very noisy cat. I think a diesel and two electric drives would be better. Seen a few of those and the owners were happy with the setup.
__________________
Happy Sailing,

Stephen

Crowther Windspeed 36

www.gonetroppo.org
GoneTroppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 12:01 AM   #33
Rear Admiral
 
Silver Raven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneTroppo View Post
Hydraulic drives can get very noisy at an annoying freq. Only seen one and it was a very noisy cat. I think a diesel and two electric drives would be better. Seen a few of those and the owners were happy with the setup.
Gooday 'U-2' - Fab to see you 'back' in here. Sure do hope both of you are 'A- O.K.' & the 'toy' is as well. Question is - would you fit one to your 'toy' or stay with something like what you've got - that has proven to be reliable ??? & is dependable ??? - especially - in the middle of the night either on a lee shore or - out in the middle - picking up people.

I have a problem coming to terms with the weight - value - reliablity - grunt - fuel consumption equation. Seems difficult to even choose which model - brand to choose from. With all your vast experience - would you care to give us some valuable tips cause we could sure use them ! ! !

Keep well-happy-smiling, ciao, james
__________________
Silver Raven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 03:25 AM   #34
Admiral
 
Auzzee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,822
Default

Since this thread was re-started, I have been interested to look at the Mastervolt E-propulsion systems. I can imagine they will be expensive, but they do look like the sort of drive system which would be ideal on a sailing yacht. There is a lot of good information on these systems on the Mastervolt web page..and the smaller engine (suitable for a boat up to 26') can be seen in West Marine's catalogue.
Very 'swish' indeed!
__________________
"if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!


Auzzee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 10:36 AM   #35
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Gone Troppo
Posts: 103
Default

Both well thanks James and the toy is in the middle of another refit. Afraid I have no tips but after checking out electric drive systems(expensive & complicated) have decided to stick with the old rattlers, including rebuilding one. Could not see why the electric motors or control units were so expensive???? Maybe should source manufacturers?
But if I had the money to spare or the time to make my own I would go for a cheap diesel generator and two electric drives and keep it simple. This should be a benefit in both weight and power at the props. Not really interested in running electric motors without generator, as we have found that in calms we motor for days at a time.
Hopefully as more get installed the prices will reflect the real cost.
Hope all is well with you mate, Cheers.
__________________
Happy Sailing,

Stephen

Crowther Windspeed 36

www.gonetroppo.org
GoneTroppo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 12:38 PM   #36
Admiral
 
haiqu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Home Port: Brisbane
Vessel Name: Keppelena
Posts: 1,519
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post

Since I'm starting with a dead engine and almost no electrics fitted, one possibility is to remove the diesel entirely and rely on solar alone for the basic systems.


This is how a friend of ours recently sank. Very experienced cruiser who really could sail anything in any conditions. He had no money for fixing the engine in the boat, took the engine out, went cruising, boat started slow leak he couldn't find, solar couldn't keep up with the bilge pumps, even with his manual pump and all, he slowly sank over a 4 day period while trying to get to port. Luckily an SOS he made was heard and a US warship on exercises off Mexico picked him up.
Pretty sad, but avoidable. As an experienced sailor he should have known where all the through-hulls and stopcocks were, and their condition. Unless he was holed, diving and inserting a towel or a plastic bag full of seat cushions could have save that yacht. Of course a lot depends on the conditions, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a weather window over 4 days where something could have been done.

Quote:

A manual windlass has less stuff that can go wrong, and can be repaired easily. Even then solar may be enough for an electric windlass as long as you're not raising and lowering the hook on an hourly basis.


There is very little difference between a manual windlass and an electric one.
Apart from the need for 120A of battery power to run it.

Rob
__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen

I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: All sections
haiqu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2012, 04:06 PM   #37
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,225
Default

Haiqu,

How many ocean voyages have you been on which enables you to state that "Pretty sad, but avoidable. As an experienced sailor he should have known where all the through-hulls and stopcocks were, and their condition. Unless he was holed, diving and inserting a towel or a plastic bag full of seat cushions could have save that yacht. Of course a lot depends on the conditions, but I'd be surprised if there wasn't a weather window over 4 days where something could have been done."

Weather window? What are you talking about? The weather is going to become "perfect" and fix my friend's leaking boat? He was sailing towards port during very sunny days. But, believe it or not, it's possible to be more than 4 days from port and it is possible for solar not to keep up with pump loads. As a matter of fact, it is possible for it to take MONTHS to get into port. The world's oceans are big.

the leak wasn't from thru hulls (long story there--keelbolts and seeping generalizes it pretty nicely though. And, when you're sailing--and loading up the keel--if you've got a leak around the keel/hull interface you'd better have good bilge pumps (and power) available) . My friend, according to your other posts, if he hoped to keep things "simple" wouldn't have a compressor or SCUBA set up on board. He'd be free diving--yea--I can see that--in the Pacific Ocean during choppy conditions/winds/waves...uh...huh...pitching boats are very dangerous--if he wanted to make sure he died, that would have been a great way to do himself in. Whack on the head and he's gone. Yep, that's the solution.

and the sailor was someone with 30 years of cruising and more than 50K miles (that I know of, he probably has many, many more miles) under his belt--a very experienced cruiser. The only mistakes that could have been avoided? Sailing solo so that he was totally reliant upon himself with no outside help and not having sufficient mechanical backups because of his solo situation. Had there been two or more people aboard rather than one, he also would have been unlikely to sink.

Why did he make these two mistakes? The latter was because he had an unfortunate financial crisis which drained him and he had too little money to properly outfit the boat for additional cruising. The first was because, though he's a great person on land, he's one of those folks who just can't get along with others while sailing. Sad, sad, sad.
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lagoon 440 Diesel Electric Generation Eleua Engines | Propulsion | Generators 1 02-02-2009 06:56 PM
Diesel - Electric Generation In The Lagoon 440 Eleua Power & Electronics 0 01-15-2009 09:02 AM
Electric Propulsion Nausikaa General Cruising Forum 3 09-03-2007 06:46 PM
Electric Auxiallary Nausikaa General Cruising Forum 10 08-13-2006 03:40 AM
Non-electric desalinators Ken Bourke General Cruising Forum 9 05-28-2006 02:40 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0