Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Multihull Club
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-28-2008, 07:04 PM   #1
Commander
 
gslabbert5119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 195
Send a message via Yahoo to gslabbert5119
Thumbs up

Not trying to start a war, but the wife and I are still debating the merits of each of these yachts and will be buying one of the 2 next year for our Circumnavigation.

I am leaning towards the Lagoon and the wife wants the Leopard. Both are essentially the same size, the Leopard is longer and narrower and the Lagoon is shorter and wider . The Lagoon 38 has a shorter mast and less sail area 857 sq ft vs just over 1000 sq feet and the lagoon is lighter than the Leopard. When sailing the Leopard is much faster, but is that really that important for cruising?

Having never sailed a Cat in anger I really have no personal experience to compare the two so, any help suggestions or insights, particularly by folks who own these 2 yachts would be most appreciated.
__________________

__________________
Gavin & Lesley

http://BlueWaterCruising.com

http://photographybygavin.com

"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
gslabbert5119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 01:01 AM   #2
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Hi Gavin,

The number # 1 question to be asked on both these cats. Is, "what is the bridge deck clearance ?"

With full PAY LOAD ! This factor is so important when considering any offshore sailing.

Another question :- what HP engines ? Where located?

Another thought - when buying new - remember that the buyer is going to have to spend a lot of extra money on electronics, navigation and communication equipment etc etc etc .....

Previously owned (Not Charter) Cats will often have excellent inventories and will have been well maintained.

A little hard to compare the two as the extra 2ft on the Leopard actually makes a big difference in terms of handling, comfort and speed. The Lagoon at 37' something, but wider, is harder to reverse at low speed. The narrower beam of the Leopard will probably negate some of the slamming.

A good read from a few years ago is this :- ARTICLE

Richard
__________________

__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 12:37 PM   #3
Commander
 
gslabbert5119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 195
Send a message via Yahoo to gslabbert5119
Default

Thanks for your insights MMNETSEA,

I guess a little more clarification is needed. I am not buying new, I will be buying nearly new though, 2006 or newer and in all likelihood I will not buying out of the charter fleet as we are looking at an Owners version, and very few in the fleet are configured in that manner.

My broker works for 2Hulls in Ft Lauderdale and I have read and re-read that excellent article over and over, and thanks for reminding me of it.

The size debate has been ongoing and has been a point of contention, and if I could afford it I would buy the Lagoon 44 diesel, however, I cannot see doing a multi year cruise without any major revenue source and still having to make a monthly payment. As a result I have only so much cash, which restricts my purchase. Les and I have been looking for close to 2 years now and the Lagoon 380 S2 was our first choice but we thought it was just a tad on the small size. Lagoon had a 410 and now a 42 but again we come to price. I just cannot afford it. Also when cruising what is too big or more importantly what is too small for practical cruising when you are going to spend any number of years in close proximity to each other. I know any number of people are cruising on 35' Charter Cats, but they are to basic a yacht for my wife and I, besides I have personally seen 2 of them, 1 that literally sunk in the harbor in Ft Lauderdale and one at a private berth that I went onto to look at to buy that had nearly a foot of standing water in the port hull.

A yacht that really interested me is the Knysna 44 and I flew to SA earlier this year and went to the factory and met with Kevin (one of the owners). The Knysna 44 has a really nice design and is the old molds from Dean with a new upper deck design. This yacht really great value for money but the company is so small that I just cannot see buying from them, but this is still an option though somewhat slim.

Bridge deck clearance has been one of the key issues and most SA boats have a lower bridge deck clearance than their European counterparts, but all of the Cats that I have either sailed or sailed on Slam when close hauled or reaching. They are even worse when motoring into a headwind, I guess it is just the price you have to pay for the added space.

I will be at the Annapolis boat show in October and will be demo sailing both the Leopard and the Lagoon and will pay close attention to the ease of or difficulty of backing down each Cat.

As far as motors go, both that I am looking at have 29hp Yanmars (The lagoon is an upgrade from 18hp) The Leopard engines are under the Aft bunks whereas the Lagoon motors are housed outside and accessed from the boarding platform. Each have the benefits and drawbacks I am told but I really have never had to work on either under poor conditions. I imagine that it is much easier albeit tighter to work on the motors under the bunks.

Back to the the size, here are the dimensions of each yacht, unfortunately I do not have the bridge deck clearance for either yacht available to me.

Lagoon 380

Overall length 37'11''

Waterline length 36'1'

Beam 21'5"

Leopard 40

Length overall 39' 3"

Waterline length 37' 6"

Beam 20' 1"
__________________
Gavin & Lesley

http://BlueWaterCruising.com

http://photographybygavin.com

"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
gslabbert5119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 03:19 PM   #4
Rear Admiral
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Default

WELCOME,

If you haven't considered custom boats. Then possibly you should. A surveyor can let you know if it is a good choice, or not. I read Chris White's book, and it helped me make a wonderful choice on a custom cold molded boat built in Germany.

MMNETSEA has given good advice on a previously owned, and especially a cruised boat. All the goodies will be there already........BEST WISHES in finding a boat that will serve you well,a nd bring pride......i2f
__________________
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2008, 04:47 PM   #5
Commander
 
gslabbert5119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 195
Send a message via Yahoo to gslabbert5119
Default

Never given custom boats much thought, in fact I have given custom boats no thought whatsoever.

Great idea thank you

__________________
Gavin & Lesley

http://BlueWaterCruising.com

http://photographybygavin.com

"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
gslabbert5119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2008, 10:35 AM   #6
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Gavin,

The Knysna 44 ( a revamped St Francis) nice boat, but back to the real issue on a cruising cat - the bridge deck clearance ! The Knysa has a probably less than 2ft.

I would sacrifice Saloon head room space any time for clearance under the Saloon.

A key to sailing close to nose on a catamaran is having dagger boards that are easily lowered and lifted (And easily removed for cleaning and antifouled)

As far as engines are concerned - many of the Vanmars are turbocharged - which means for the turbos to kick in - RPM will need to be above 2,000.

A good cat is the Grainger mystic - but Australian.

Gavin, the Leopard has better potential - IF I was buying one - I would take it to a yard and add another 2/3 ft to the transom and dagger boards. The Lagoon by reports is very hard to get it moving - but lots of mono-hulls are also like that.

Richard

A biased Multi Huller
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2008, 03:23 PM   #7
Commander
 
edsailing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 120
Default

Having sailed a Lagoon 380 transatlantic westbound (delivery to Fort Lauderdale from the factory) - I would be very cautious about getting one of these as an ocean going boat. Although it has an CE Ocean rating I would not rate it as a serious Ocean going boat. I know of other who have structural problems start to develop after the boat has had some hard weather.........

You pays your money and takes your choice!

Ed
__________________
Regards

Ed

Delivering boats for a living

+44 (0) 7932039727
edsailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2008, 05:02 PM   #8
Commander
 
gslabbert5119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 195
Send a message via Yahoo to gslabbert5119
Default

Thank you for that, this is why I subscribed to this site. Great insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by edsailing View Post
Ed
__________________
Gavin & Lesley

http://BlueWaterCruising.com

http://photographybygavin.com

"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
gslabbert5119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2008, 05:07 PM   #9
Commander
 
gslabbert5119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 195
Send a message via Yahoo to gslabbert5119
Default

Thanks Richard, I will look into the turbo charged Yanmars and I must say I had never thought about getting a Leopard and taking it to a yard and lengthening it 3 feet and adding daggerboards. not a bad idea, I will look into this. Do you know of any Leopards that have had this sort of work done to it?

I will also look into the Grainger mystic. Never gave them a thought and have not seen one here in the USA, but then I have not really looked for them.

Great insight Richard and thanks a ton

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
A biased Multi Huller
__________________
Gavin & Lesley

http://BlueWaterCruising.com

http://photographybygavin.com

"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
gslabbert5119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 02:49 AM   #10
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Hi Gavin,

Here is a picture of the Grainger 42 (Not sure if this is the same as the Mystic Cove - also a 42')

Tony_Granger_42.jpg

Here is a picture of the Transom Mod :-

D___J_PASTING_2.jpg

Here is a picture of the Cat before it was modified :-

D___J_OLD_BOAT.jpg
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 08:13 AM   #11
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

[QUOTE=MMNETSEA;24956]Here is a picture of the Cat before it was modified :-

Attachment 604

PS

Gavin,

I forgot to name the make of the above Modified Catamaran : Its a Parlay 38 - now a 40.

designed by Alex Simonis - the designer of the Leopards. I understand (but cannot confirm) that this boat's bridge deck clearance is 4' 10˝" - which think is not correct, I will ask the owner.

Richard
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2008, 09:52 AM   #12
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

OK, owner returns with cap in hand ! 813 mm (which in my measurement = 32" or 2' 8") not bad .

Another 7" would be good.

Richard
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2008, 01:19 AM   #13
Commander
 
gslabbert5119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 195
Send a message via Yahoo to gslabbert5119
Default

Nice looking yacht, pity I cannot afford it. Will contact Grangier though to get an idea how far out of my price range they are.

Yep, the Leopard 40 is designed by Simonis but not the older models. The 40 is more Americanized and targeted for the charter maerket

Gavin

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
OK, owner returns with cap in hand ! 813 mm (which in my measurement = 32" or 2' 8") not bad .

Another 7" would be good.

Richard
__________________
Gavin & Lesley

http://BlueWaterCruising.com

http://photographybygavin.com

"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
gslabbert5119 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2008, 01:58 AM   #14
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Hi Gavin ,

Other Alex Simonis :- LEOPARDS

Richard
__________________

__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lagoon 440 ...vs... . 56 Pajot alllycat The Multihull Club 6 06-13-2011 09:33 PM
Leopard 47 Nusailor The Multihull Club 3 09-24-2010 01:19 AM
Brand New Leopard Catamaran MMNETSEA The Multihull Club 0 09-23-2010 06:17 AM
New Model Leopard 38 JohnT The Multihull Club 45 10-04-2009 07:30 AM
Manta < Dean< Admiral Or Leopard Tom Farley The Multihull Club 1 12-28-2008 09:40 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0