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View Poll Results: Do your cruising plans include passage between Indian Ocean & Mediterranean Sea?
Within 1 year 9 34.62%
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:51 PM   #15
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To the med? or just across Pacific?

I bet its better to ship westward once you are close. The SV BeBe reported in 2011 was $650/ft with SevenStar Yacht Transport. People spend that much to have a boat shipped from Hawaii to Panama or to Mexico and still have to beat upwind out of Panama to get anywhere. I remember to add cost to Puerto Rico was extra 8 grand for 46 ft boat 4 years ago.
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:17 AM   #16
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Roz,

I have been speaking to a friend that works in Dubai area in the energy business and he does massive quantities of trucking of large pieces of hardware. Take a look at some of the parts that are trucked across the desert and tell me what you think.

MA

I believe you are giving up on the option too easy. Dubai isn't the only port to consider nor is Starightline the only service. I plan to dig much deeper...because if my boat can be trucked from Austin Texas to LA, it certainly can be trucked across a desert where they are highly experienced at moving oversized loads.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:09 AM   #17
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Also, keep in mind that Starightline was not the trucking company that moved S/V Chinook. The trucking company in Jordan was Nebresco Odeh Naber & Sons Transport Co. (Nabresco)

I have been communicating with Nigel at Straightline via email quite a bit. I attempted many times to talk with him by phone, but nobody answered or I was told he was busy lifting boats onto ships. Although NIgel is obviously very knowledgeable about the shipping industry, I sense that shipping is more his bailiwick than trucking. I requested a trucking quote from Dubai to Aqaba, Jordan assuming Trim meets all the height and length limitations. As of yet, I have not received a quote.

Even so, I invited Nigel to visit our forum to discuss in as verbose a manner as possible to educate us on the various pitfalls of the boat moving business in this region. Hopefully he will take the time from his busy schedule and join us.
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Old 07-03-2012, 03:36 AM   #18
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I also have seen some pretty huge equipment trucked. It is possible and certainly worth looking into. A caution is that the costs are much higher for an oversize load typically.

With our major rebuild of our boat we had three short overland moves; One from water to 1st yard (distance of about 5 miles), then after 8 months move to 2nd boat yard (8 miles away), then move back to the water (distance of 8 miles) for relaunch. The owner of the 2nd yard was a boat moving company that happened to move (overland) a lot of really huge boats and long racing boat masts (182 ft is their record). We learned a lot from that second yard owner about boat moving and big moves. Since we were there 1.5 years, I became familiar with their bidding and cost structures (hey, I'm an MBA and it interests me) from talking a lot with the owners.

The bottom line is that yacht moving is "value priced" meaning that small boats can be moved cheaply because there are many vendors; Midsized boats are still cheaper than big ones because there are more trucks which can be modified easily to move them; Big boats have very few vendors to choose from so they pay the most. The actual cost to the boat mover for their time and equipment varies only a little bit between a typical 38' boat and a typical 55' boat but yet the quote for the 38' boat (for moving a long distance) is significantly less than the larger boat (say, 1/2 the price). This is not a cost+profit type job in most countries. IT is purely value pricing so what you see is that the same move can be $1200 for a 30' boat, $3.2K for a 37' boat, $12K for a 45' boat, and $40K for a 60' boat.

Having options is important. In addition to complexity of the move, the mover sizes your options up and picks his price to present to you. Given this, you need choices. Your actually having multiple choices of what to do is paramount in getting a good price from any vendor. Even if you're not thinking about shipping the boat or really wouldn't consider having a delivery crew take it around Africa for you, or hiring an experienced skipper/crew to assist you on a sail around Africa, the actual prices of these options should be well researched so you know what you need to work with when you're negotiating your "value" price with that boat mover.

Even though it seems contrary to consider going East--getting that pricing is important as a data point for an overland trip across Saudi.

In the USA, rail lines don't allow for widths over 13.5' I do note that the (few) freight rail lines in Saudi seem to be single track so wider widths MAY be possible or even likely. That is worth looking into as well with the railroads which carry from UAE through Saudi and Jordan.

Learned from the boat mover we know: Things which the mover can do to exceed road height restrictions include taking down power lines or driving off road for a short section. Boat and big equipment movers are very clever about these things and can make amazing things happen IF THEY WANT THE JOB. They can move on weekends and middle of night to take up the entire roadway rather than just one/two lanes.

If you have masts which are much longer than your boat, you may find that you, like us, will have to have two moves (if short distance) or you might have to pay to move a larger boat/item which is the actual length of your masts.

Our situation was short-move and we actually had a spar repair/mfr company move the mast which they did with a pickup truck and low cost (very easy to fabricate) expanding trailer. If anyone here ends up with problems because of needing two trips (one for boat and one for mast(s)), contact me and I can try to get info about that mast trailer (which can be pulled behind a regular truck) to you for fabrication for your move.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for all in finding good work-arounds including sailing a different-than-planned passage, using overland or on-water shipping.

Best to all,
Brenda
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Old 07-03-2012, 12:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim50 View Post
Also, keep in mind that Starightline was not the trucking company that moved S/V Chinook. The trucking company in Jordan was Nebresco Odeh Naber & Sons Transport Co. (Nabresco)

I have been communicating with Nigel at Straightline via email quite a bit. I attempted many times to talk with him by phone, but nobody answered or I was told he was busy lifting boats onto ships. Although NIgel is obviously very knowledgeable about the shipping industry, I sense that shipping is more his bailiwick than trucking. I requested a trucking quote from Dubai to Aqaba, Jordan assuming Trim meets all the height and length limitations. As of yet, I have not received a quote.

Even so, I invited Nigel to visit our forum to discuss in as verbose a manner as possible to educate us on the various pitfalls of the boat moving business in this region. Hopefully he will take the time from his busy schedule and join us.
Gooday U-2 - oh & others. dLet us - think outside the square - for just a moment.

What's it cost to -

Keep Trim on the hard in Bundy ???

Fly to the Med & return for 2 plus gear ??? or buy new gear over there ??

Lease or Rent a boat in the Med for 2 months - or however long ??

Alternatively do a reciprical 2, 3, 4 month - swap boats incl insurances ??? You over there & them over here ???

Is the total of all that less than the cost of moving the boat - out of the water - across land YIEKS boats belong in the water NOT on trailers going across land. NOT safe - me thinks ! ! !

Better you two making that decission than me - I wish you Gawd-speed with you small problem ! ! ciao, james
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Old 07-03-2012, 11:50 PM   #20
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James-- it's a good point that you make, think outside the box, yes. For someone intent upon seeing different parts of the world, flying in and out makes lots of sense. Traveling via sailboat as cruisers do isn't exactly the most time-efficient nor cost-efficient way of doing it always.

However, many cruisers want to travel with their own boats world-wide. Thus, they'll have to find some acceptable means of making their way to the Med eventually. Be it going East the "long way" or South around Africa or overland...

Fair winds,
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:18 PM   #21
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Our Esprit 37 could be trucked so we are interested in hearing more when someone does this. I did not like the idea to go around south Africa and we can not see leaving our boat here in SE Asia to fly places to visit the Med.
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Old 07-15-2012, 11:53 PM   #22
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Great News to Report regarding Piracy in the Indian, GOA and Red Sea.

Last week was the first week in over 3 years that there was zero piracy reported! The trend seems to be reversing and the coalition appears to be making a difference.

The cost of replacement outboards is too high.

http://www.oni.navy.mil/Intelligence...W_07122012.pdf
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:15 PM   #23
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Default The Dubai - Aqaba Option

Thank you redbopeep for starting this thread and also to Trim50 for the excellent input of a viable and interesting option, as opposed to sailing through the Gulf Of Aden and the Red Sea, with all the dangers that entails.

I joined this forum a number of years ago as CruisingSpirit but have been unable to log in again for some reason and have, therefore , rejoined as S/Y Spirit.

Until recently, Spirit was berthed near Langkawi at the Rebak Marina. Unable to find a solution towards getting her into the Mediterranean Sea and home via the Gulf of Aden, putting her up for sale in Thailand appeared to be the only remaining option.

As Trim50 stated in one of his postings further upthread, the entire issue can be described in simple terms as follows: “For many cruisers, we have worked hard to arrive in places like Australia, New Zealand and Langkawi only to be faced with the big question of “What now?” Do we sell our boat? Do we just forget the Med and sail around South Africa and onto Brazil? Or even worse, sail the Pacific Rim all the way back home! Or, do we find alternative methods of getting to the Med?”

For those of us, who live in Europe and want to return with our boats to the Mediterranean, these questions are, perhaps, even more prevalent.

When I bought Spirit in Malaysia several years ago, my plan was to sail her down there for a few years and then bring her back up into the Mediterranean. Subsequent developments in the Gulf of Aden now make that undertaking nearly impossible as neither my ship, nor my crew, nor even my person as skipper are insurable when sailing through the “HRA” or High Risk Area, which now comprises the Arabian Sea, the Gulf of Aden and the Red Sea. It is currently a declared "war zone".


“Rolling the dice” and sailing alone towards Suez is not an option. Selling my boat in S.E. Asia means that I will probably be able to sell her at only 1/3 of her actual value, if even that. This is not an option. Abandoning her is not an option. Sailing back to Europe across the northern Pacific Rim is also not an option. Going southwest and doing Africa and the Cape of Good Hope route might be a good way to get to Brazil, but not to Europe.

Accordingly, taking the land route from Dubai to Aqaba appears to be more than interesting.

Spirit’s max height is 4.5 meters and otherwise fits the specs. I’ve contacted NABRESCO and have asked them to make me an offer from Dubai to Aqaba, although I know that they would first need to send their truck to Dubai. However, they have the experience and $11.000 is a lot less than the $48.000 I received from one shipping company 3 years ago.

All I’m interested in, is getting my boat into the Mediterranean as safely and cheaply as possible.

I know, that there are a lot of other ship owners in similar situations and believe that a company like NABRESCO could provide a solution to this most unique problem.

I’ll keep you informed regarding how this develops. At the moment I see this as the only realistic way of getting my boat into the Mediterranean without endangering my boat, my crew or myself.

If there’s any way of doing it, this is the course I’ll be taking.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:38 PM   #24
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G'Day Spirit,

Thank you for you input on this subject.

Please keep us posted regarding any feedback you get from any of the shippers, good or bad. Any and all data will be very useful to all those currently waiting and still arriving in Australia and SE Asia for an option to the Med.

Cheers,

Ken
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:04 PM   #25
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G'Day Trim50

You're welcome and I'll certainly keep the forum posted. I am well aware that I am not the only one in this position. There are any number of yacht owners currently looking for a viable route into the Mediterranean.

Frankly, at this time I see no other options for Spirit. Concurrently, I hope that NABRESCO or another company will recognize the business potential of this solution to a dire problem for many yacht owners.

Even if sending a truck down to Dubai from Aqaba costs an additional $1000, this is still more economical than any other way forward for many of us.

What I do know, is that I'm not leaving my ship in S.E. Asia. That's not any way to treat the fulfilled dream of a lifetime. :-)

Spirit is coming home.
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Old 03-13-2013, 03:06 PM
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Old 03-13-2013, 05:25 PM   #26
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Default Time?

I have continued to wonder if things will improve (in some years) but if not, certainly the trucking sounds to be a viable option.

A reminder that before the days of the canals, the clipper route was routinely used by grain ships from AU to Europe Clipper route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cruising yachts in the early part of the 20th century also used the Clipper route.

Now, of course, it is primarily used by racing sailors or those wishing a bit of sailing adventure. A few years ago (2009?), I attended a lecture of a US young sailing couple who'd zipped around the world to-from their SoCal harbor with little problem using the Clipper route. I usually remember this sort of thing in quite some detail. I'm drawing a blank because it was quite an unremarkable trip and quite an ordinary vessel and quite an ordinary couple. Only remarkable in that they had the self confidence to travel the route, when given all the "ordinary-ness" of they, their boat, and their prior sailing experiences, most others would not have done so. That thought bodes well for any other set of ordinary folks who want to use the Clipper route.

Fair winds,
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:34 PM   #27
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Here is a quick update concerning the most recent developments:

Having attempted to contact NABRESCO (Odeh Naber & Sons Transport Co.) in Amman, Jordan by e-mail, I received a message this morning that my e-mail was deleted without having been read. Accordingly, I reworded the original message slightly (leaving out any mention of the transport of S/Y Chinook from Aqaba to Dubai) and sent another e-mail to NABRESCO.

Concurrently, I also sent an identical query to the offices of NABRESCO’s sister company Naber & Co. International Forwarders but have since received the message that this e-mail “could not be delivered”. Whether due to server-issues, censorship or firewall parameters, e-mails from Europe are not getting through at this time.

Perhaps it’s time to give them a phone call.

This afternoon I called the Munich, Germany offices of the Magdenli shipping company for which Trim50 supplied a link a few posts upthread. Had a long talk with the general manager there and was informed that Magdenli there only deals with transports to and from Turkey. They used to handle some shipping into Iraq but that has since ended due to the conflict between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurdistan. Nonetheless, Munich suggested I contact the head office in Ankara, as they might be able to put me in touch with Saudi Arabian shipping companies that undertake such contracts.

Based on a query made to the Bremen, Germany offices of the Pangea Cargo Company concerning transshipment by sea, I received a polite reply from their Bangkok offices concerning the dimensions of my boat, which I immediately sent them. Am still awaiting a reply for a quote for transport from Phuket to Port Said, Egypt (cradle included).

It is quite possible that shipping companies such as these prefer to work with other companies as opposed to dealing with private individuals. I therefore sent an e-mail to the general manager of Blue Bell Shipping located in Dubai, who I know personally.

Link: Blue Bell Shipping

What I want to find out, is if Blue Bell might be interested in addressing (and possibly cornering) the “niche market” of overland yacht transports on a one-way basis from Dubai up to Aqaba. Acting as “general contractor”, they could handle all customs and duty formalities, provide cradles on loan and essentially oversee the entire logistics of the transport of the yachts from Dubai to Aqaba as general contractors.

The more thought I have given this option, the more viable I find this solution for many yachts owners wanting to reach the Mediterranean from S.E. Asia in the foreseeable future.

Any company willing to specialize in what is essentially a lucrative “market niche” with a lot of potential might find this to be interesting. In my estimation there are a good many yacht owners, who would be willing to take this route in order to complete a circumnavigation via Europe respectively the Mediterranean.

Here are the dimensions of my Warwick Cardinal:

Length 14.02m
Height 4.50m
Beam 4.14m
Weight 12500kgs
Mast 18.28m

Accordingly, it could be transported without difficulty overland. I look forward to further developments with interest.

What I am sure of, is that because of the general decline of shipping volume, due to the current global economic downturn, shipping companies can and will be found, that are willing transport our yachts at fair prices. Any shipping company, which recognizes the incredible potential of this market and is willing to follow “creative solutions” (read: low cost, full service) will be able to make a substantial, long-term profit.

The overland route from Dubai to Aqaba seems to me like a brilliant way forward for all concerned.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:18 AM   #28
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Thank you for all the information!
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