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[jerjacko]

The Oceanswatch web site was interesting to me, but I'm not familiar with many charitable organizations traveling on small private yachts, and so I wrote to Oceanswatch for a copy of their charter before I went any further. They really haven't been very forthcoming, it seems. On their web site, under "charter" they state: "Copies of our Trust documents are available on request by emailing chris@oceanswatch.org"

I emailed chris, and here are the emails sent and received as of today. It doesn't cost him anything to send copies of this stuff to me, does it?

So now I'm asking what does he have to hide? Anybody here know?

From: Jerry Jackson
To: ChrisSent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 I'm sorry, but is there a reason that you won't send me a copy of the OceansWatch charter? If you won't send it now, I don't see any reason why you would send it after I have joined. Please explain this.[/font] Sincerely, Jerry Jackson In a message dated 4/21/2008 6:52:55 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, chris@oceanswatch.org writes:

We would be keen to have you join OceansWatch at www.oceanswatch.org/membership best wishes, Chris Bone Oceanswatch
PO Box 1803
Whangarei, 0140
New Zealand Incorporated NZ Charitable Trust #2077781 "There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." -- Nelson Mandela

----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Jackson
To: ChrisSent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 2:50 AMSubject: Re: A question and a request
I am the youngest brother of a cruiser who visited the South Pacific in the early 90s. My wife and I have been very active in various public service organizations in the US and the Caribbean, notably the St. Martin Sea Rescue organization. We plan to go cruising in a few years (as little as two, as many as 8 years away) and we are looking into various organizations we would be interested in working with as we travel. A friend of ours, who was one of the shoreside volunteers helping support Donna Lange's circumnavigation, gave us the name of your organization. It was your website that directed me to request the charter. Looking forward to hearing from you, Jerry Jackson In a message dated 4/13/2008 1:53:19 A.M. GMT Daylight Time, chris@oceanswatch.org writes:

Hi Jerry, Thanks for your interest. I have not been associated with the group you mention but one of our consultants, Vince Kerr may have been. Asking for a copy of our charter is a slightly unusual request. We have recently had parts of our website copied and used in a manner that I did not consider ethical so I am now a little nervous about this sort of thing. Can you tell me a little more about your self and your interest in OceansWatch please, then I will be happy to oblige. In the meantime here is a copy of our Incorporation certificate. Best wishes, Chris Bone Oceanswatch
PO Box 1803
Whangarei, 0140
New Zealand Incorporated NZ Charitable Trust #2077781 What inspires me Currently it's music by Caitlin and Sika, especially the Mantra's and "Spiritus" www.caitlinandsika.com "There is no passion to be found playing small - in settling for a life that is less than the one you are capable of living." -- Nelson Mandela

----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry JacksonTo: Chris @ oceanswatch
Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:19 PMSubject: A question and a request
[font="Arial"]My brother told me about a volunteer group doing research on the reefs in Tonga back in the early 90s. Were you involved with that group? I am very interested in the activities of Oceans Watch. Could you send me, via email, a copy of your charter? Many thanks,Jerry Jackson

[Lighthouse]

@Jerjacko

I have not had direct dealings with Oceanswatch except to say that they have in the past posted on these boards some six months ago. At the time, I too requested a copy of their charter - without success.

I see the following on their website:

"OceansWatch is a Charitable Trust registered in New Zealand #2077781"

Perhaps one of our NZ members could explain exactly what a "Charitable Trust" is.

I am no expert but I would guess that if they are actively seeking donations they should give you access to the details you request - without question.

I can understand your concern and frustration with the above email correspondence with them. Your wish to become involved with some volunteer project as you cruise is admirable - well done!

Perhaps our NZ members can give you more assistance.

[Lighthouse]

@Jerjacko

I don't know what your online connection is like but I did a bit of Googling for you.

The "Deed of Trust Establishing Oceanswatch" is in the public domain:
http://www.companies.govt.nz/scanned-image...10055180738.pdf

Is this what you are looking for?

[jerjacko]

I guess that's it. Explains where the money will go, I guess. It's so new, though, that they have no track record yet.

I still want to know why Chris Bone couldn't be bothered to send me that if it's a matter of public record. Buying a pig in a poke, it seems to me.

[osirissailing]

Just a thought but in the USA we have a wonderful organization called R.E.E.F. which was started by divers to catalog and study the underwater reefs around Florida. They were instrumental in getting dive boat bouys installed at various reef sites to end the destruction of those reefs by folks dropping anchors on the reef. They have over the years expanded in size and scope to now encompass most of the Caribbean with forays into the Pacific. They have over the years built to first any only database of fish and coral populations in this hemisphere. Using volunteer divers and "fun dives" sponsored by dive boat operations they slowly convert normal scuba divers to ecologically interested and "correct" divers.
Maybe Chriss of Oceanwatch is trying to start up something similar in the southwest Pacific. And maybe get a little "free" cruising in the bargain. Nothing wrong with that so long as the results obtained have actual real world uses - such as the database of fish and coral for the Caribbean that never existed before R.E.E.F. got started.
If he is only using the money to "lobby" governments for mythical improvements in ocean welfare then he is no different that the dozen other political lobbying organizations that collect millions, if not billions, from well meaning folks and spend the money on "administrative" purposes and wining and dining politicians. That is a total waste.
So be careful and see what he and his oceanwatch really does produce for the betterment of the oceans.

[Collingwood]

IMHO Chris Bone is laying a smoke screen here. Any self respecting charitable organisation would be happy to provide their charter document.

By claiming that We have recently had parts of our website copied and used in a manner that I did not consider ethical so I am now a little nervous about this sort of thing they are just adding to the smoke and mirrors trick. Sure, it may well be the case that someone has copied part of their website but what has that to do with the charter? Surely, that is a document in the public domain?

I have done a lot of work together with NGOs and all of the responsible ones with which I have worked would not react in this way.

I therefore offer a challenge to Mr Bone - prove that you are worthy of Jerry Jackson's time and effort and the support others may also offer you and send your charter document to Cruiser Log for publishing. I would also like to see your current workplan and cost estimate. Until such time as I do see these documents, I consider your outfit to be unserious. Please prove me wrong.

James Lidstone-Collingwood

[oceanswatch]

Hi Cruisers,

Chris Bone here from OceansWatch.

My reply to the poster re our charter was a 100% genuine one. We are hiding nothing. I am on a google alert system and a few months ago was alerted to a new website. When I looked at it they had copied and pasted a section straight from my site (even used the same bullet point formats!). Anyway I was upset that they were copying us without asking. They have since changed their site after I talked to them about it. That put me slightly on guard so I did ask Jerry who he was first. I am very busy and currently have > 200 emails in my inbox so did not get back to him straight away. Jerry did send me a reminder and I sent him a full copy of our trust document then.

In New Zealand one registers as a Charity by having a Trust document lodged and approved by the Govenment. They then issue a certificate to prove this. I sent Jerry the certificate first, then the actual Trust document after he got back to me. In the last couple of days we have also been approved for tax free status. I am not the financial person in OceansWatch but I understand that means people can donate to us and receive tax credits.

OceansWatch currently has about 35 yacht owning members and about 80 other members. Our membership is International. We are new and still learning how best to be effective. We are working with www.reefcheck.org and www.coralwatch.org Both organisations have developed systems of monitoring the health of Coral Reefs that seem very good to us. Recently 10 people from OceansWatch received training in the ReefCheck system (at our own expense) and we will be doing many surveys in Tonga, Vanuatu and Papua New Guinea this year. Yacht owning members will be helping us. Some of us are now also able to offer this training to our members. Our first course will be in Tonga in late June. If anyone is interested in learning more they can get regular newsletters by subscribing here http://oceanswatch.org/mailman/listinfo/oc...oceanswatch.org

Not sure how many attachments you can post here but I will attempt to post the 3 documents mentioned above. I could only attach 2, the last one which shows that we have received Charitable Status is too big as it's a scan. If anyone wants to see it email me chris@oceanswatch.org and I will send them a copy.

I am very happy to answer questions about OceansWatch but will be at sea soon so it may take awhile.

Attached File(s)

 Certificate.pdf ( 15.25K ) Number of downloads: 1
 Trust_deed.pdf ( 39.79K ) Number of downloads: 3

 

[oceanswatch]

Just a thought but in the USA we have a wonderful organization called R.E.E.F. which was started by divers to catalog and study the underwater reefs around Florida. They were instrumental in getting dive boat bouys installed at various reef sites to end the destruction of those reefs by folks dropping anchors on the reef. They have over the years expanded in size and scope to now encompass most of the Caribbean with forays into the Pacific. They have over the years built to first any only database of fish and coral populations in this hemisphere. Using volunteer divers and "fun dives" sponsored by dive boat operations they slowly convert normal scuba divers to ecologically interested and "correct" divers.
Maybe Chriss of Oceanwatch is trying to start up something similar in the southwest Pacific. And maybe get a little "free" cruising in the bargain. Nothing wrong with that so long as the results obtained have actual real world uses - such as the database of fish and coral for the Caribbean that never existed before R.E.E.F. got started.
If he is only using the money to "lobby" governments for mythical improvements in ocean welfare then he is no different that the dozen other political lobbying organizations that collect millions, if not billions, from well meaning folks and spend the money on "administrative" purposes and wining and dining politicians. That is a total waste.
So be careful and see what he and his oceanwatch really does produce for the betterment of the oceans.

I agree with this 100%. We are very conscious that any money we receive must be well spent. We are not a lobbying group. We are trying to be as cost effective as possible. Here is some information I sent in an email recently to someone who was asking about us. It may serve to help forum readers understand us more.

"A point I would like to make is that OceansWatch is NOT principally a
research organisation.

There has been plenty of research done and there is a great deal of money
being spent on research. We already know that global warming exists, we know
that there are many problems facing coastal communities. OceansWatch has not
been set up to further the career of academics or for marine biologists to
do research projects in exotic locations.

We have been trained (and can train) in simple methods of monitoring the
health of reef ecosystems. Using these methods we can quickly and very
cheaply make a broad assessment of the following:

The degree of coral bleaching, which is an indicator of global warming.
The degree of pollution caused by nutrient run off from agriculture or
sewerage.
The extent of aquarium trade fishing.
The extent of collecting done for the curio trade.
The extent of siltation caused by land clearing or development in adjoining
catchments.
The extent to which an area has been fished out of species used for the live
fish trade.
If there is a problem from the overfishing of particular species that are
pivitol to maintaining a balanced ecosystem.

We can do this accurately enough to identify if a problem exists. We can do
this in a few days. If we need more information, then we could bring in an
academic team.

A third world community, struggling to feed it's people does not need to
know much more than this. From the above informationn a plan can be
formulated with a local community to protect, enhance and ensure that a
sustainable catch can eventually be harvested from their environment.

So we are interested in working with research organisations but what they do
must have a clear benefit to the environment and people who rely on it. I am
seeking to always maximise the cost benefit of what we do."

[jerjacko]

I never received a copy of the Trust from Chris. It was because of this that I asked him if there was any reason why he wouldn't send it to me. I've rechecked my emails today, and I still have not received a copy of the Trust. Of course it is now not necessary, I guess, since it's posted here.

I'm sorry if I sound suspicious but charities are a great big ripoff in many places, especially the US. I need to see some kind of meaningful work being done and published before we start contributing dollars to people we have never met.

I'm curious and now that this forum has Chris's attention, I would like to know how involved in the organization is Donna Lange? She's the only american in the group but I haven't seen anything in our local news about Oceanswatch or Donna's involvement in it.

[oceanswatch]

Re Donna Lange and OceansWatch

I met Donna in New Zealand when she was half way around her RTW trip. I helped her get her boat prepared for the NZ-Newport leg. We got on great and she was really interested in my ideas. I talked to a few other friends and together we outlined our visions for OceansWatch. When Donna was at Cape Horn and getting thousands of hits a day on her site we decided to launch the OceansWatch website. Donna, myself, a Marine Biologist from the UK called Peter Vine, another close friend of mine called Jane Pares from the UK (now NZ) and my wife were the founding members. We have several others who help and form a loose team. Included in that team at the moment are other American's Vince Kerr (now NZ resident) Bob Randell (now living in NZ), Donna (currently in Florida) and Amy Fowler (an USA Fullbright scholor helping us with our Education portfolio). I think we have >20 USA members, about the same from Canada. We will be setting up an USA 501c3 in due course.

Donna mentions OceansWatch on the front page of her site here http://donnalange.com/ We communicate about OceansWatch frequently and she is very much involved with our USA plans. I will tell her about this Forum as she may wish to comment herself.

[oceanswatch]

You are right, I just checked too and forgot to attach the document. It was just a mistake, easily fixed if you had told me. It's obvious from my email that I meant to attach it! It's not the first time I have forgotten an attachment nor will it be the last I'm sure !

My email on 23/4 in response yours on 23/4 follows.

Hi Jerry, No reason, just very busy. Actually I am not 100% certain that was the latest version as I am not the Trust secretary, I may send another copy later. You will note that this document is quite specific to the Pacific, it has to be under NZ law or we can not get tax exemption. We are currently working on other legal entities elsewhere as we will operate world-wide. Best wishes, Chris

----- Original Message ----- From: Jerjacko@aol.com To: chris@oceanswatch.org Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:27 PMSubject: Re: A question and a request
I'm sorry, but is there a reason that you won't send me a copy of the Oceans Watch charter? If you won't send it now, I don't see any reason why you would send it after I have joined. Please explain this.

[Seafever]

Mr Bone,

Either you are not being completly truthful or you do not know what you are talking about :-

You declare :-

" In New Zealand one registers as a Charity by having a Trust document lodged and approved by the Govenment. They then issue a certificate to prove this. I sent Jerry the certificate first, then the actual Trust document after he got back to me. In the last couple of days we have also been approved for tax free status. I am not the financial person in OceansWatch but I understand that means people can donate to us and receive tax credits"

However :-

The Charities Act 2005 of NZ provides :-
"Changes to the Income Tax Act 2004 and Estate and Gift Duties Act 1968 say that only charities registered with the Charities Commission will be eligible for tax exempt status. Tax exempt status means registered charities don't have to pay income tax and resident withholding tax and donors of gifts to registered charities don't have to pay gift duty. The changes take effect from 1 July 2008."

In checking with the Charities Commission, they have a record of your registration as a Charity - 17th APR 08.

Have you provided people with the trust deed that you used to register with the Charities Commission ??? Is this the same document that you sent to Jerry ??

It appears that your so called trust is registered in terms of a 1957 statute.

Perhaps it would be useful to warn the Commission that Oceanwatch is possibly flying under false colours??

It would interesting to see which communities has Oceanwatch assisted and to what extent in terms of the deed registered with the Charities Commission ?


This post has been edited by Seafever: Apr 27 2008, 01:22 AM