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-   -   What Yacht To Buy (http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/f12/what-yacht-to-buy-4069.html)

johnlamb 04-30-2010 03:44 AM

Hello out there

I am new to this so please forgive me if my enquiry is a bit on the boring side or has little interest for you. But for anyone who cares to give me some advice I would greatly appreciate it?

Myself and my wife, Denise, are currently exploring the possibilities of purchasing a second hand yacht in Europe to use sailing and exploring the Eastern Med during the summer months, while returning to Australia during the Med winters. I have a long background in sailing, but not so much in cruising, Denise has only day sailed.

We have looked at some yachts in Italy and one that took my fancy was a Grand Soleil 46.3, perhaps moreso for its performance capabilities, rather than its cruising comforts. We looked at several GS46.3's and other yachts around the same size and were somewhat astonished to learn that the majority of the yachts we looked at were being sold because their owners had purchased larger yachts? We are now thinking that if this yacht is to be more like a home, away from home, we should consider a few more comforts and to this end have placed on our list of inclusions, not necessarily in any order of importance, nor comprehensive, but the following - a large well protected cockpit, including good sun protection. A bow thruster. Electric winches. Watermaker. Sullage tanks ( apart from trying to be as green as possible we might like to bring the yacht back to Australia when our adventure is over ) Generator, and just so the little woman doesn't feel too alienated, a washing machine. I realise I could go into a host of electronics inclusions and other devices inclusive of safety but don't want to make my quandry too extensive?

We would also like a yacht that is generally regarded as well built, safe and one that may retain its resale value as best as possible. We are a retired couple and will be living on our meagre accumulated wealth which we cannot afford to squander hastily, no government or other pensions for us.

While I understand that there is a lot of personal preference in my question, I ask it all the same, what yacht would you reccomend and what size? I hope we get some answers from people who have done, or are dooing what we intend to do.

At the moment I am leaning towards a Moody 46, 2001 vintage, your thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated?

MMNETSEA 04-30-2010 10:32 AM

Hello John,

Comparing 2 boats from a distance is dangerous, on the one hand an Italian Boat which claims to be a cruiser racer (whatever that means?) and the other a Bill Dixon designed cruiser.

What is needed to give a sensible answer (if that's possible) is an idea of the following :-

# What range of budget will you have to purchase the boat.

# What budget for installing CRUISING equipment.

# What budget do you plan for annual maintenance and living costs until you sell the boat and live on land.

# As you have both retired, how fit are you to handle a 46ft Sail Boat alone.

# The range of ASKING prices for the boats that you have mentioned covers $ US 280K for a 46.3ft Grand Soleil (tax not paid) and $US 400K for a 46 Moody.

# On eventual arrival in Australia, import tax will be required.

redbopeep 04-30-2010 07:09 PM

There are numerous threads here discussing boat attributes as various folks have asked "which boat is right for me?"

Suggest that you search the old threads and archives. Further, which boat is right for you? The one that YOU think is right http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif Cruisers sail on all sorts of boats, big and small, inexpensive and costly. It really is what YOU want for your cruising.

Fair winds,

johnlamb 04-30-2010 11:57 PM

Hi 'MMNETSEA'

Thank you very much for your reply, and constructive commentary, it is very much appreciated, I suppose my question was a bit like "how long is a piece of string", I didn't express a budget purposefully, as that it is quite open at the moment. We have a certain amount that we can readily liquidate to invest immediately in a yacht such as your example Moody, and then other assets, not presently earning any income , that could be liquidated which would just about double that budget, however due to the current financial climate here in Oz, I would be taking a big loss to do that at the moment and unless the "perfect yacht", which I don't believe exists, came along I would rather not take a big hit just at the moment, so I guess our budget could be expressed in terms of US$400k plus or minus depending how much extra needs spending to get cruising, and a bit more again for the "right boat" inclusive of cruising equipment.

With regard to cruising costs, I have invested in some of Rod Heikell's books and we would be looking to stay in Marinas wherever possible. I have allready looked into insurance, slipping and antifowling at various Med marinas, costs of wintering the yacht in Greece and these costs are within our means.

With regard to fitness, we don't have any ailments to speak of . I have been sailing a 10 meter trimaran for the last three years and a 42 foot catamaran prior to that.

I have investigated the costs of bringing a yacht out from Europe to Oz and I am led to believe that there is a 5% import duty applicable depending on where the yacht was manufactured, NIL if manufactured in the USA and the 10% GST regardless whether tax has been paid overseas or not.

My present leanings are towards a Moody 46 or moody 49 built between 2000 and 2005, there also appears to be a very nice Able Apogee for sale in the States at the moment. What are your thoughts on these yauchts and/or any alternative suggestions?

Thanking you in anticipation- John

johnlamb 05-01-2010 12:03 AM

Hi redbopeep

Thank you for your imput, you are quite right, selection of a yacht is quite a personal thing, I shall do as you suggest and research some of the old threads and try and pick up on some ideas that way, thank you again.- John

MMNETSEA 05-01-2010 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlamb' date='01 May 2010 - 06:57 AM (Post 1272671873)

Hi 'MMNETSEA'

With regard to fitness, we don't have any ailments to speak of . I have been sailing a 10 meter trimaran for the last three years and a 42 foot catamaran prior to that.

My present leanings are towards a Moody 46 or moody 49 built between 2000 and 2005, there also appears to be a very nice Able Apogee for sale in the States at the moment. What are your thoughts on these yauchts and/or any alternative suggestions?

Thanking you in anticipation- John

Hi John,

Noted that you are also a multihuller (welcome to the club)

If the Abel Apogee is the 50ft model , that is a performance boat that requires a lot of work to sail her - she has a large main - the fore sails are split so that she is cutter rigged. The draft of 9ft something will be a problem in many marinas and cruising areas. In general if 90% of your cruising time will have only the 2 of you on board, you might consider a monohull in the 40 <> 44 ft range (OR even a catamaran such as the PDQ 36 or any of the current South African cats in the 38ft range. Not to forget the excellent Aussie designs at good prices.

johnlamb 05-01-2010 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMNETSEA' date='01 May 2010 - 06:44 PM (Post 1272703494)

Hi John,

Noted that you are also a multihuller (welcome to the club)

If the Abel Apogee is the 50ft model , that is a performance boat that requires a lot of work to sail her - she has a large main - the fore sails are split so that she is cutter rigged. The draft of 9ft something will be a problem in many marinas and cruising areas. In general if 90% of your cruising time will have only the 2 of you on board, you might consider a monohull in the 40 <> 44 ft range (OR even a catamaran such as the PDQ 36 or any of the current South African cats in the 38ft range. Not to forget the excellent Aussie designs at good prices.

Having had two cats and one capsize I think I would prefer the sunset of my cruising days in a mono, please don't take these comments as being adverse to multihulls, I have a trimaran at the moment and wouldn't part with her for the world, if I wasn't intending cruising the Med. I have been in 50knts plus in that little tri ( not by choice ) and never cease being amazed by her speed and sea handling capabilities. So far I think my leanings are for a Moody 46, they seem to have all the comforts and load carrying capacity for comfortable cruising. Thank you for your commentary. Best Regards - John

johnlamb 05-01-2010 10:30 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlamb' date='02 May 2010 - 08:24 AM (Post 1272752695)

Having had two cats and one capsize I think I would prefer the sunset of my cruising days in a mono, please don't take these comments as being adverse to multihulls, I have a trimaran at the moment and wouldn't part with her for the world, if I wasn't intending cruising the Med. I have been in 50knts plus in that little tri ( not by choice ) and never cease being amazed by her speed and sea handling capabilities. So far I think my leanings are for a Moody 46, they seem to have all the comforts and load carrying capacity for comfortable cruising. Thank you for your commentary. Best Regards - John

Here is a picture of my little Tri Bluey

MMNETSEA 05-01-2010 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlamb' date='02 May 2010 - 05:30 AM (Post 1272753004)

Here is a picture of my little Tri Bluey

John,

Beautiful trimaran - designed and built by Bob Burgess

In the mean time, here is the link to the Moody Owners Association CLICK

foggy 05-02-2010 07:05 PM

Hello there, this is my first contribution so please bear with me.

You mentioned import tax earlier on in this thread. How does this work in the UK? For a second hand vessel, bought outside of the EU, is it as simple as a flat rate (what %?) on the purchase price and import costs or is the value based upon its cost when brand new? Are there any other rules for boats being imprted from UK territories (Virgin Islands for example)?

If this topic has already been covered on this site please point me in the right direction.

Thanks


Nausikaa 05-02-2010 07:32 PM

Hi foggy and welcome with your first post,

The rules concerning taxation of private yachts imported into the EU by EU residents are really quite simple. You pay VAT on the value of the boat in the country of import. Portugal has, for example, a lower rate of VAT than the UK so if you import a boat then it is better to make Madeira or the Azores you port of entry than, say, Plymouth.

There is,of course, the other issue that the boat must be compliant and certified in accordance with the European Small Craft Directive.

Regarding BVI, they are outside the EU so the same rules apply. Some French overseas territories, such as Isle de la Reunion, are considered to be within the EU and so bringing a boat from there would not be classed as an import.

Be aware that you can, at any time in the future, in an EU port be required to produce documented proof that the boat has VAT paid status. If you cannot prve this then you may be required to pay VAT one more time - ouch!

I hope this is an adequate answer to you question.

Aye // Stephen

foggy 05-03-2010 10:01 AM

Thanks for that very helpful.


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