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-   -   Schengen Visa Again (http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/f12/schengen-visa-again-822.html)

Laurab 04-13-2007 02:35 PM

http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub..._question1.gif

Just hoping again that a new reader can perhaps answer the problem of how one gets around the Schengen Visa requirement for a non EU spouse when sailing in the Med in countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain etc etc.

What do you do when visa expires or the 90 days allowance is up??

Does one's spouse get deported, fined or refused entry?

Help

Swagman 04-13-2007 07:20 PM

Can you not exit to Morocco or another N African country, clear in and clear out and come back for another 90 days?

With an EU passport here in Turkey - we have to do the reverse.

JOHN

Harbor_Pilot 04-13-2007 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurab (Post 6206)
http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub..._question1.gif

Just hoping again that a new reader can perhaps answer the problem of how one gets around the Schengen Visa requirement for a non EU spouse when sailing in the Med in countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain etc etc.

What do you do when visa expires or the 90 days allowance is up??

Does one's spouse get deported, fined or refused entry?

Help

I have questions about your post.

First, why place limits on responses from "New Readers" only?

Would it not be better to seek advice from those with knowledge and experience in this matter?

Second and a much larger issue; Why would you want to "Get Around" Visa requirements anywhere as opposed to "Complying with Them"?

My thoughts are:

* Breaking the laws of any state / nation often have severe consequences, including a criminal record (often internationally traceable), severe financial fines, long prison terms, long delays, deportation, sometimes and maybe wrongful mistreatment, certainly a tarnish to ones self.

* You already are expending some efforts on this topic.

Would it not be better spent, on learning the rules of your destination states / countries and how to "Comply" with them, THAN seeking loopholes?

* People of world states expect visitors to comply by their laws and customs. Their law enforcement branches enforce it. Their justice system imposes it. It is up to us, as guests, in their home, to become knowledgeable of those laws and customs. Often and likely which are much different than we know or are accustom to. The fact that we do not think it is correct, or right has no bearing or relevance in the matter.

* People of world states (countries) frown on criminals or those that violate their laws and customs. Further they prosecute the violators by their laws, customs and to their standards.

* Pleading ignorance of the laws does not work anywhere. Studpidity serves no defense.

Maybe I misunderstood your question, or lack the knowledge to answer it properly.

Harbor_Pilot 04-13-2007 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurab (Post 6206)
http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub..._question1.gif

What do you do when visa expires or the 90 days allowance is up??

Does one's spouse get deported, fined or refused entry?

Help

What I would do is be gone, out of courtry, well clear of all borders, prior to the visa expiration.

OR have made prior arrangements with the proper authories for an extension, if possible.

MMNETSEA 04-14-2007 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laurab (Post 6206)
http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub..._question1.gif

Just hoping again that a new reader can perhaps answer the problem of how one gets around the Schengen Visa requirement for a non EU spouse when sailing in the Med in countries such as Greece, Italy, Spain etc etc.

What do you do when visa expires or the 90 days allowance is up??

Does one's spouse get deported, fined or refused entry?

Help

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Laurab,

Your reasonable question , may be answered in the web site :- http://www.sailingissues.com/formalities.html

Also you should investigate the extension of visa provisions in Greece for your spouse.

As Swagman has indicated you have the option of leaving EU countries to another country for a short period and returning with with a visa or if appropriate obtain one on arrival.

Laurab 04-17-2007 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMNETSEA (Post 6229)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Laurab,

Your reasonable question , may be answered in the web site :- http://www.sailingissues.com/formalities.html

Also you should investigate the extension of visa provisions in Greece for your spouse.

As Swagman has indicated you have the option of leaving EU countries to another country for a short period and returning with with a visa or if appropriate obtain one on arrival.

Thankyou for your reply. Have checked out the website and doesnot work that way. My husbands passport South African gets stamped in and out every time we go to Greece even though we have temporary residence so his 90 days are still counting. The procedures are not as straight forward as we were led to believe.

Thanks again for replying.

Laurab 04-17-2007 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbor_Pilot (Post 6223)
I have questions about your post.

First, why place limits on responses from "New Readers" only?

Would it not be better to seek advice from those with knowledge and experience in this matter?

Second and a much larger issue; Why would you want to "Get Around" Visa requirements anywhere as opposed to "Complying with Them"?

My thoughts are:

* Breaking the laws of any state / nation often have severe consequences, including a criminal record (often internationally traceable), severe financial fines, long prison terms, long delays, deportation, sometimes and maybe wrongful mistreatment, certainly a tarnish to ones self.

* You already are expending some efforts on this topic.

Would it not be better spent, on learning the rules of your destination states / countries and how to "Comply" with them, THAN seeking loopholes?

* People of world states expect visitors to comply by their laws and customs. Their law enforcement branches enforce it. Their justice system imposes it. It is up to us, as guests, in their home, to become knowledgeable of those laws and customs. Often and likely which are much different than we know or are accustom to. The fact that we do not think it is correct, or right has no bearing or relevance in the matter.

* People of world states (countries) frown on criminals or those that violate their laws and customs. Further they prosecute the violators by their laws, customs and to their standards.

* Pleading ignorance of the laws does not work anywhere. Studpidity serves no defense.

Maybe I misunderstood your question, or lack the knowledge to answer it properly.

Dear Harbour Pilot, we are not trying to break any laws, quite the opposite we are both very law abididing citizens that is why we want to find out the answers to the Schengen problem. I think you may have misunderstood my choice of words. Believe me, we have asked our questions of the relevent authorities many times and no one at the various embassies or even at the Schengen offices seems to be able to give us an answer. We were told to apply for a temp residence permit in Greece, which we did, but the authorities still keep stamping my husband's South African passport on entry, thus using up his 90 day allowance. His Schengen visa expires in August and requirements say he must return to South Africa to renew it.That is almost impossible, not to mention the expense. I am an EU citizen and have it in black and white that the spouse of an EU citizen must be afforded the same rights and be treated as if an EU citizen on entering an EU (or Schengen) state, however in practise it depends on who is on duty at the time and how the rules are interpreted. I started asking and seeking answers to our dilemma (South African passport) over a year ago long before we left to go sailing. I am currently waiting for a new reply from the offices of the EU citizens advice.

Laurab 04-17-2007 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swagman (Post 6219)
Can you not exit to Morocco or another N African country, clear in and clear out and come back for another 90 days?

With an EU passport here in Turkey - we have to do the reverse.

JOHN

Its not that easy as Schengen visa only allows 90 days in a six month period then one has to be out of the country for 90 days.

The whole Schengen visa is only valid for a year then we have been told to return to South Africa to apply for a new one which is quite out of the questio.

We are also in Turkey at present and also go in and oout but it is not the same as a Schengen visa. We also have no wish to go to a North African country - we have just left Africa. Even in those countries my husband requires visa obtained prior to arrival.

bvimatelot 04-19-2007 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harbor_Pilot (Post 6223)
I have questions about your post.

First, why place limits on responses from "New Readers" only?

Would it not be better to seek advice from those with knowledge and experience in this matter?

Second and a much larger issue; Why would you want to "Get Around" Visa requirements anywhere as opposed to "Complying with Them"?

My thoughts are:

* Breaking the laws of any state / nation often have severe consequences, including a criminal record (often internationally traceable), severe financial fines, long prison terms, long delays, deportation, sometimes and maybe wrongful mistreatment, certainly a tarnish to ones self.

* You already are expending some efforts on this topic.

Would it not be better spent, on learning the rules of your destination states / countries and how to "Comply" with them, THAN seeking loopholes?

* People of world states expect visitors to comply by their laws and customs. Their law enforcement branches enforce it. Their justice system imposes it. It is up to us, as guests, in their home, to become knowledgeable of those laws and customs. Often and likely which are much different than we know or are accustom to. The fact that we do not think it is correct, or right has no bearing or relevance in the matter.

* People of world states (countries) frown on criminals or those that violate their laws and customs. Further they prosecute the violators by their laws, customs and to their standards.

* Pleading ignorance of the laws does not work anywhere. Studpidity serves no defense.

Maybe I misunderstood your question, or lack the knowledge to answer it properly.

Well, Harbour Pilot, That was a bit of a harsh response to a perfectly reasonably put question wasn't it? Although I have to agree with everything you said!! Here in the Caribbean I am continually advising (normally bareboat charterers) that you CANNOT just "pop across" to USVI from BVI and that, yes, people WILL mind if you transgress their laws, however "3rd world" you consider their little country to be! Tony

Harbor_Pilot 04-19-2007 08:23 PM

Laurab,

Thanks for the explanation. I did not understand your intent or your situation, and stated such in my post in my introduction and closing. I thought you were trying to break the laws, and asking for advice on how to.

MMNETSEA confirmed, with his response, that I did not understand. That was clear to me when I read it.

bvimatelot observed that I came across as harsh. It is true; harshness was my intent, based on "my MIS-understanding of your intent". Before I posted it, I re-wrote my response many times, attempting to restrain myself and considering the best way to respond. I walked away from it several times, rethinking, and returning to re-write it.

Tony,

Thanks, for pointing out your perception of me being to harsh, aslo agreeing with everything I said.

~ ~ ~

Communication is difficult, considering we are communicating in writing, with the universal English Language, and further considering English maybe a second, third, or subsequent language of many.

Understanding, English is not fully universal amongst Great Britain and its offspring states, or within them. People of other countries attempt to adapt. Language and communication is ever changing and evolving. It is no wonder we encounter communication obstacles on this international board.

I think we need to consider that, be considerate of each other, and allow for that.

~ ~ ~

Hopefully my clarification made things right (correct) in this matter.

BACK ON TOPIC

Laurab,

Now that I better understand your question, I do not know the answer. You have my empathy in your frustration with the situation. I have been researching the Schengan topic, and now know much more about it than before you posted your question.

Hopefully somebody can provide a solution.

Meanwhile the best I can suggest is a four-step problem solving format:

1. Identify the problem

2. List possible courses of action

3. Discuss them with the team members, or consider them if alone

4. Select THE BEST Course of Action, and Implement It.

Decide based on your current level of awareness, and always be aware (seek more information).

Than Do Something.

The above should help. It always works if you want to be in charge of your destiny.

Jeff

Nausikaa 04-22-2007 08:25 PM

Maybe I missed it somewhere but I don't think you told us what passport you travel on Laurab. If you have an EU pasport yourself or one from Norway or Iceland then there is no problem as your spouse canot be refused entry into an EU country except, paradoxically, your own where normal imigration procedures have to take place.

Of course, if you are not an EU passport holder then this little bit of information is worthless.

It does seem unfair that the EU will only allow your husband in for three months at a time (exception the UK which is not in Schengen and where South Africans need no visa and can stay up to two years on a so caled "working holiday"). On the other hand, on arriving here in Cape Town last week I was only granted a three month visa so it cuts both ways, although I must admit the procedures for getting a S.A. visa are much simpler than a Schengen visa.

Aye

Stephen

Yacht NAUSIKAA


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