New yacht Owner and liveaboard hopeful

[lawrenceyarsulik]

I live in the L.A. area and because the kids are now moving out, I'm looking for a 40-55 ft yacht to buy and live on at the marina...I don't want to maintain one of these over priced and under built homes in this area... I'm searching and learning about this venture every day either from friends, brokers at the marinas and boat owners... As you know, everyone has their own opinion and comments on what I've been looking for in a yacht... I was told yesterday, that anything over 42-44 feet in length is a monster to navigate through the waters...plus much more in upkeep...it seems to me that to have plenty of liveaboard space, I need to have at least 45ft to 55ft... I am trying to learn what is the best equipment needed on this vessel, how much hp do i need and on what type engine is best...I don't foresee that many trips but would like to know that I can afford to go when these times come around...I've been told by many now, stay away from wood hulls, gas engines...I'm visiting to view as many as these vessels as possible to see what feels right...any help in my yacht education would be greatly appreciated... I'm thinking I can afford a price range up to around $300,000.00 depending on the financing and slip fees... I haven't got prequalified yet because I don't feel I know enough about what I can afford or what exeactly I really need. My son is 18, and will most likely be with me for a while, most likely a new girlfriend or two will come and go at will... I also, may have to have some creative financing becuase of my current FICO score that is under repair, but who knows how long this will take...I would also hope to find the right vessel and get the majority financed with a second type loan with the owner to rid myself of the debt I do have. This would take all the pressure off the ownership and maintenance of this yacht... I'm inserting just a few of the hundred or so yachts that have caught me attention... this one seems to bew under powered and I'm told Cat Diesels were most likely th ebest choice... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_...ng_id=1748&url= this has Volvo engines... http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_...g_id=74351&url= http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_...ng_id=1691&url= as you know also, when you actually see these yachts in person, some look a lot nicer in the photos... these are just a couple examples... this next one was one of my favoties in the very few I've seen in person...it was sitting in the main channel of the marina at Marina Del Rey...http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...60&slim=quick& the galley was pretty small but you could tell this owner had more pride in this vessel than a few others I saw...anyway, any advise would be appreciated... thanks...

[Auzzee]

Hi Lawrence, Seems to me that you are a good part of the way there just by knowing the right questions to ask. Many people will tell you to go smaller than 50'. I am 54 and have a sloop which is 53' on deck. A good analogy is that sailing a 35 as opposed to a 55, is the difference between driving a 6 wheeled truck and an 18 wheeler. It means during a blow you really will need to shorten sail when you first think about it. But bigger boats do sail better, are drier, more comfortable and more roomy. Back in the older days a good rule for engine power was one HP per foot of boat length. Nowadays with the emphasis on power generation and the close quarters handling demanded by marina life, it is more like 2hp per foot. But with $300k to spend, I suspect you will be able to buy a reasonably new boat which will have a suitable engine. I do not think there is such a thing as a bad engine these days. They are all reliable. Similarly there is no such thing as a bad building material for a boat. A well built boat can be made of wood, aluminium, steel, concrete or fibreglass...or a combination of each. Each medium had its strengths and weaknesses...for example timber requires more maintenance....A boat which has been proudly maintained will always be a better buy, but take along a surveyor before you make the final committment. Buy a boat which you want to sail even if you believe you will be marina bound for long periods...otherwise buy a houseboat...or a winnebago. The final word; Sailing is better for the soul than almost any other pursuit you will have ever followed....Best wishes

[lawrenceyarsulik]

Thanks Auzee, I wasn't sure if I'd get a response from this site or not...I found it last night in the Log newspaper ...all and any good information is relevant for me and very much appreciated... So if the attage 2hp per foot were to hold true, a 50 footer with twin 200hp would be fine... I don't really know, I was thinking and hearing at least 300hp per engine so as not to be a 'dog' in the water... I am thinking about the cost factors as well as upkeep, this would include the fuel cost...as far as a proud owner, that will be me and I can see the difference in the boats I've visited...do you Auzee's use the boat / yacht value book I hear about called 'Bucvalue' ? I need to be sure I'm seeing the real value on these also...I also appreciate the positive attitude in buying a yacht...most and many people keep telling me that there are many hidden cost, you won't make money that way etc etc...but I'm after the thrill and excitement of the life style of it all....

Have a great day Auzee !!!

[Captnjoe]

Hi Lawrence:It sounds like your on the right track.It's a major project buying a yacht.A survey is a must as you'll discover as you go.You mentioned price of operation of a yacht keep in mind what BOAT stands for"BREAK OUT ANOTHER THOUSAND"and that sums it up.That said you might think at looking at this!

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_...258&slim=quick&

I hope I did that right so that link will work of you but anyway the differance between the boat in the above link and the one's you are lookin at is about 30 gallons an hour at cruising speed something to think about.I hope my little contribution is of some good to you.Have a nice day:

Captnjoe

[lawrenceyarsulik]

Hi CaptnJoe, thanks for the info and your link did work...that is a beautiful boat and looks like for the money and comfortability, this would most likely work or be in the running for my future home...The questions I have are, first, I have to finance this venture and I thought the links I checked wouldn't finance a boat over 20-25 years old...I don't know this industry and may be wrong...second, are these engines in good shape where I wouldn't have to get them rebuilt or replace in the very near future ? Are they enough to be out at sea power wise...I really don't know all this stuff... Did you mean the difference in the examples I showed was 30 gallons per hour crusing speed because of the difference in engine and boat size?... I have been told to stay in a 40-45 foot becuase of the upkeep and fuel cost etc by one individual boat owner so far... Because of the cost of maintaining a yacht and the slip fees etc, this would be a better choice for sure...I also heard a comment that when you go on a trip and your in a 50 foot yacht, I guess depending on your experience at sea and the equipment etc, they are a lot to handle and manuveur...I was told that 'joy sticks' are good to have to get in and out of the marina...What the hell is a joy stick lol Can ya fill me in on all these aspects... I very much appreciate all this information...first becuase a yacht is not going to make me any money like a house...but after years of maintaining homes and raising children, especially raising them alone for the last 8 years, I want the lifestyle of the marina life in the areas I love in California...and all that goes with it...most people and friends think I'm nuts to do this instead of buying real estate, but with the medium priced townhome in L.A. at around $3-400,000.00 and houses around $5-600,000... I just am not impressed with what ya get for the money and do not want to maintain an empty house...For a guy from the midwest, this is a dream lifestyle...A

Anyway, thanks for the info and I hope to hear from ya soon with some more facts or comments... BTW, if I was able and made a choice to buy a particular yacht from a Florida location, how do I get it here.. ??? Also, after the divorce situation and having the children, moving to L.A. 5 years ago etc...I may need to find a loan with an owner or maybe a second type loan with a willing owner, this is all due to a not-so-perfect FICO score to get good loans...I'm a hard working, good man, just have had some financial troubles through it all...Also, since moving to L.A. we have paying anywhere from $1,300-$2,000 a month in rent...I'm not a financial risk, just a man with some credit problems that make me look like **** when applying for home loans or any loan for that matter...this too will all be resolved in the near future...

Cheers,

[Captnjoe]

Hi Lawerance: I didn't mean to imply that you should consider that paticular boat it was just an example.Yes the engines in a boat like that are plenty for cruising that type of boat is from the trawler family and they are a very sea worthy vessel.You would't want the expence of transporting one from fla to cal by either land or sea.I'm sure with some research you can find the same thing in cal.Speed = fuel consumption.A boat like I should you will cruise at 8 knots@1750 rpm which will burn approx 5 to 8 gallons an hour.The one in your links I'm guessing will cruise at 12 to 16 knots at a higher rpm and burn 30+ gallons an hour at full throtle either one will burn more fuel howerver it's not recommened to run die engines at max rpm for extened periods.I don't know what to say about credit I do know that an older boat can be financed depending on an individuals credit score which unfortunetly in our economey today can be a nightmare.I have seen boats out thier in Yachtworld that owners were willing to hold paper but they are few and far between.

As far as joy sticks go the only thing I can think of is that thier talking about thrusters and thier controlled by small joy sticks.Don't know if that's the answer but it's all I can think of.Now I have a question for you have you considered sail they haven't found a way to tax the wind yet and in a bad blow a sail boat will take the weather much better.Of course that is my personal opinion but I"ll bet you can find alot of sailors that will agree.

Have a good day.Captnjoe

[Bedouin]

I have to agree with Catnjoe. Think about a yacht as well as a cruiser, whatever you buy you'll have for a long time. I have a 42' length on deck and live aboard. Power is by a Yanmar 33 horse power diesel and maximum fuel consumtion is 1.8 litres per hour. You can afford to use something like that. The motor pushes her along to 7 knots which is designed hull speed. Of coarse under sail is the way to go cause it's free!! I sail solo but have enough room for company.

Regards

Peter bedouin@hotkey.net.au

[CaptCam]

lawrenceyarsulik,

You may be interested in this Taswell 43' for your budget.

http://catspeaker.com/Koa Not only could you liveaboard,

but you can sail around the world when ready!

There is a feature article about the boat at http://isleofsail.org

CaptCam

[Captnjoe]

Hi CaptCam:

Thats one beautiful vessel.My wife and I are looking to buy again in the near future to do somr extended sailing for a few years,unfortunetly that vessel is alitle out of our price range but again it is a very beautiful and well equipped vessel.

Have a great day captnjoe

[brightspell]

Hallo,

Just one or two thoughts about boat size. I've heard it said that "small boats are more fun" on several occasions. Well, I'm a bit biased as I have a 20ft (6 metre) grp sailing cruiser with twin bilge keels. I've spent a very enjoyable 10 days cruising around in it.....I'm an ex dinghy sailor so I didn't really feel too claustrophobic (another 3 ft added to the boat length and I'd be able to actually stand up in the cabin!).

Admittedly its not really a liveaboard candidate, but I'm mindful of that formula: the cost of running a boat increases exponentially according to its overall length. Perhaps you may sleep better in a small boat with that in mind?!

Regards

Brightspell

www.moreinfo247.com/8821255/free

[Nausikaa]

Brightspel,

I agree with you. Better a well equipped, small yacht than the luxury of size one can't afford. (well, maybe you can, but I can't).

In fact, there are small boats out there which are live-a-board prospects. I have a 25 footer, with full headroom (6' 2") in the main cabin. I.m.h.o. the headroom is the size issue. I can only lie in one bunk at a time, I can only sit on one head at a time and even the largest of cruisers normaly has only one stove....but headroom is worth a fortune. To my mind, that is the measure of live-a-board comfort.

Small boats - small problems

[brightspell]

Hi!

I've got no argument with the headroom requirement, it clearly is a defining issue for a true liveaboard. My cruising is currently around the Thames estuary (that most exotic of locations!) near London UK, classic `shoal waters' sailing.....brrrrrrh!....but thats just the North Sea in November.

However, I'm looking to eventually trade up to a full headroom (24/26 ft LOA) sailing cruiser and better still a boat equipped with an inboard diesel. My current 20 ft craft has a (Seagull) 6hp outboard....not that I use the outboard much......just to get on /off a `swinging' mooring.

Another reason I can sleep very peacefully in it (apart from the relatively low running cost) is that I ripped out the former butane stove and fitted a Primus Sievert paraffin one. I used to smell butane in the morning but couldn't find the source.

Apart from creating an alarming fireball......like an Exocet missile strike! (from the unburned meths primer) at the beginning, I've now learned to let the primer meths go out before firing up the paraffin! It now works a treat......who needs high tech?!

Regards

Brightspell (thats the name of my boat too!)

www.niceoffers.com

[Nausikaa]

Hi Brightspel,

You and I seem to be on the same track. My boat is plumb in the middle of the size you are looking for. She is getting on in years - although much younger than her skipper. A long keeld, double-ender. I too am in the process of installing a heater. Had I the space, I would go for the Danish Refleks oil stove but given the lack of it, I will probably go for the Canadian Sigmar. However, I am kleen to hear about your experiences with the Primus.

I have a Perking diesel which I use for berthing / unberthing. Up to now the engine has run perfectly.

I like to keep my sailing uncomplicated and so tend to go for the simple but tried and tested alternatives. I always favour good mechanics over electrics. I am also in the process of trying to minimise my power consumption. This winter I will install LED navigation lights which not only saves power but should save many trips up the mast to change bulbs. The LEDs have a lide expectancy of abour 5,000 hours.

If you are interested in a 25-footer, perhaps ypou would like to come and see mine. She's not for sale but others of the class are. At the moment she is lying ashore (in a shed) at a boatyard in Svendborg in Denmark.

Cheers // Stephen

skipper s/y Nausikaa