Alls Well That Ends Well...

[atavist]

Just wanted to post an update.

I am now the proud owner of VIGIL, a Pearson 365 ketch.... Yes I know I know.. not the type of boat I always extol as my kind of boat but what can you do, sometimes practicality beats out romanticism....

For those interested... The boat I first came up to New England to look at, Madrigal, ended up being a wash.. she was as my friends and I term it "boat porn" but sadly the old girl had been too neglected to be salvagable.... The broker extolled her as in excellent structural condition... and I actually think he believed she she was but once the surveyeor (Norm LeBlanc, whom I highly recommend to anyone) went to work it was a VERY short survey... the first drop of the hammer revealed serious structural degredation... in short to be restored you'd have to just cut her off a the Garboards and rebuild her down the the keel...

She's a glassed over strip plank boat so this isn't too shocking... what made me hopefully was that she was glassed by schedule at initial construction and has been shrink wrapped on the hard for the last few years which I thought would prevent intrusion... unfortunately this wasn't the case... apparently shrink wrapping isn't fool proof and while sitting on the hard she had over time taken in lots of fresh water which rezing and thawing turned the lower section into a rotted punky black mess... the owner offered to drop the price to next to nothing.. but the work needed is just tooo extensive for me to want to get into....

For the boat I did get, after looking at MADRIGAL, i was disheartened to put it lightly and planned to turn around and go back to KY to keep cyber boat shopping.. but talking to Norm he encouraged me to do some shopping in the area... and low and behold that very day I found VIGIL justa few miles up the road... the broker showed her to me the same day and I made an offer which was accepted.... Norm rearranged his schedule to get on her the net day (since I was only in the area for another day) and after a thorough survey she proved very sound... I think Norms seminal comment was "if i were in the market for a cruiser i'd be all over her myself"...

So now it's back to KY to pack my bags, and move up to Maine, where VIGIL awaits. I should have her in the water by May 1 and plan to spend the season cruising New England before I start running from the weather next winter...

if anyone is in the area drop me a line and maybe we can raft up some evening for a bbq and a beer.

[edsailing]

Congratulations!

I wish you well and may you have fair winds on your travels.

[Lighthouse]

Congratulations. May you have many years of happy, safe adventuring on Vigil.

[Trim50]

"Boat Porn"...I like it!...I'll have to find an opportunity to use the term.

[redbopeep]

Congrats! again

Looking forward to hearing all about your move to the boat and your cruising activities!

Regarding the survey and condition--this is exactly why we never flew out to look at a boat until we'd had it surveyed by a competent surveyor first. The odds are so great with a wooden boat that it has hidden problems or repairs that you're not able to undertake . Frequently the owner and broker are unaware or just don't look for those problems and its depressing, for sure, to show up and find such problems on a boat that one has high hopes for.

Take care,

Brenda and David

P.S. Ken, can't believe you've never heard that term. The best of all boat porn is..."schooner porn" for those of us into classic boats.

[atavist]

AAARRRGGHH!!!

So maybe all has yet to end well.... I now come to the problem I mentioned not long ago in another post..... BOAT REGISTRATION!!... here's my sistuation... I'm from KY but am for all intensive purposes homeless, I neither own property nor is my name on a lease or rental agreement... ergo I am legally homeless.... but to register the boat I need an address.... I could use my parents address in KY but the boat will never be in KY... ever... it's currently in Maine, I was planning to register it in NH since they have no sales tax, and I have some relatives that live there who can receive the annual registration renewal... ... is that tax fraud/evastion?? I don't see how it would be... If I register it in NH and pay their tax, which doesn't exist, that's no more illegal than registering it in KY, where I am a resident but don't reside as I see it.... another idea which was come up is maybe starting a corporation and having the boat be an asset of the company... but once again I'd have to have an address for the company....

so I'm back to square one basically.... how do other live-aboarders who don't have a mailing address do it??

any input appreciated...

Per a comments on the other thread VIGIL is USCG documented which I do plan to transfer, and no I don't plan to keep the boat in any one place for any length of time.

[Wildernesstech]

If the relatives in NH will forward your mail, then register it there and use their address. Most full-time cruisers use either family, or a mail forwarding service (a good one is in Florida) as their permanent address. You will need to establish residency somewhere! I am sure that others will chip in with some great ideas.

Congratulations on getting your boat... We will be cruising in our Pearson, your model is a wonderful cruiser!

David

[atavist]

See that's what I was thinking too... the problem is that the family in New Hampshire is afraid that this is some kind of tax evasion scam...

Any chance you know of any documentation that discusses the legalities of this type of arrangement?

what about a PO box... can i just get one and let it just pile up till i happen to be in the area again? i.e can i use a PO box for a boat registration?

[redbopeep]

If its already USCG documented, you're home free. You don't have a problem. Relax

The USCG could care less about where you get your mail they just want a valid mailing address and a hailing port chosen. They don't have to be the same place. Our valid mailing address is in Florida. Our hailing port is Washington, DC (the last place we lived and the one that we have the most affinity for of all the places we've lived in the past 25 years).

You can get everything you need to update the documentation online at the USCG site.

Now, to put in a plug for doing what we're doing--we became "homeless" in July 2006. So, in Feb 2006 (we think ahead), I got a postal mail box at this place: St. Brendan's Isle and we had all of our mail going there and had them forward it to us every month even though we still lived in our home in DC. We set up all bills for auto-pay and banking accounts for online statements, etc. So, we get our mail 1x/month and its pretty much magazines, periodicals, and occasional letters and things from the USCG, the FAA, the IRS, or other government agencies. We love it. Schedule a mail delivery anytime anyplace.

What, say you does this have to do with boat reg? Well, Florida happens to welcome people like us--voyagers. They LIKE having all those absentee voters (more pull in Congress!) so make it easy for you to become a Florida resident. Since your boat is USCG documented, you only have to register it in FL if you stay there more than a couple months. Also, you have to pay FL sales tax on the purchase unless you can show that you paid sales tax somewhere else on the purchase.

If you do what we did, your life is simple, give the USCG a FL address and get your mail professionally handled where you don't have to trust great-aunt Betty or cousin Al to get your bank statements to you where ever you are. Perfect. Now, if you keep the boat in another state that has use taxes on boats, you may end up paying use taxes in that state--but that would be the case no matter where you register your boat. Oh, and FL doesn't have a state income tax so they won't hunt you down for your tax returns. In this way, you can pay state taxes wherever you happen to be working but not worry about the hassle between multiple states

Good luck

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by atavist

See that's what I was thinking too... the problem is that the family in New Hampshire is afraid that this is some kind of tax evasion scam...

You know, why is it that people think one is being sneaky or evading taxes whenever one is doing something "original"???

I have family like that and its weird.

[Lighthouse]

Now, to put in a plug for doing what we're doing--we became "homeless" in July 2006. So, in Feb 2006 (we think ahead), I got a postal mail box at this place: St. Brendan's Isle

Very well recommended by cruisers.

[GoneTroppo]

Hi,

Congrats on the reaching the first of the two happiest days of being a boat owner. Also welcome to the 'outside of the box' (gypsy) way of life.The problems you have are not restricted to the USA. You will find so many 'problems' because you have no fixed address or land phone line in your future. I have found that the only way to get thru all the bureacratic crap is to speak directly to some govt clerk and explain that the person who wrote the regulations did not know everything. After seeing and hearing about my travels they realise that I am not a criminal and they normally come up with an alternative way of filling out the forms that all are happy with. I always state that I will not tell a lie and it is up to the govt to change their forms to take into account my way of life, as I am a tax payer. This has always worked with govt departments, but alas not so with some private businesses.

Anyway, Happy Sailing.

Regards,

Stephen

[atavist]

Ok I think we have finally found a solution... I spoke with the county court clerk here in KY, the property valuation office and the sales and use revenue service and it took some fast talking but I think I've got it sorted... ....

In KY, since the boat purchase is a "casual" purchase (owner to buyer direct, no dealer) there is no sales tax is assessed as $0.00 against it. Since it will never touch KY waters there is no use tax assessed against it, and since it will never come to KY there is also no property tax against it... VWA'LA... all I have to pay is a super small (like $20) annual registration fee and I will get all my stickers and papers saying that my taxes are paid and my registration is current.

all i have to do is make sure that I don't stay in one place long enough for someone to raise an eyebrown and try and get some type of local use tax out of me.

right? i mean just because the sales tax is zero shouldn't mean i have to pay it somewhere else... if that was the case every time a car with NH or RI plates crossed the state line they could get taxed... and every NH registered boat would be taxed as soon as they get into other waters because everyone knows they don't have a sales tax... or am I missing something else?

thanks all for your help and encouragement.

[redbopeep]

If you pay no sales tax in KY, you are likely to be legally required to pay it in the state you purchased the boat in. Further, if you ever do stay in a state for longer than their min-time for use tax, you may be subject to that state's sales tax. Be prepared to pay.

[atavist]

I'll definitely always keep a security net just in case some state tries to tag me for something....

as for the no ky taxes and someone wanting that.... i'm from a pretty small town... we'll see if i can't bat my eyes at one of the girls at the clerks office and get her to give me something that says "tax paid" vice "tax paid $0.00"...

I'll keep you all posted to how this works out.

[JeanneP]

Sales tax is one of the most common topics on cruising forums. I hear lots of opinions but few real solutions. What I have learned, though, is that if sales tax is paid in one state, other states won't ask for it. At least in our experience. A link to Florida's sales/use tax rules relative to boats is HERE

Florida, where all the snow birds go in the winter, is pretty strict about registration - if you and your boat are in the state for more than 90 days, you will have to register the boat in Florida, regardless of where it is also registered. I will acknowledge that most cruisers passing through Florida on their way to the Bahamas or Caribbean keep moving enough that no place in Florida sees them long enough to consider taxing them. Just be careful. Here's one site that explains the rules: Take Me Fishing

Lastly, the issue of mail. When we left the US to go cruising we relied on family, then friends to forward our mail to us. Family was not bad, but not great. Friends were better, but made occasional mistakes because they often didn't understand overseas mail and customs problems, and didn't have the resources that a professional mail forwarder does. We were lucky that they were extremely conscientious, unlike the family or friends of some of the cruisers we met. Because we were imposing on them we occasionally hesitated to ask for services that we have no reservations about asking of the professionals that are paid for their services.

We were referred to St. Brendan's Isle by cruising friends of ours, and have found them to be conscientious and extremely knowledgeable. We were able to order boat gear through them and trust them to ship it to us wherever we were. They also helped us establish Florida residency when we returned to the US and had no permanent residence. Our nomadic ways over the 17 or 18 years we cruised outside the U.S. didn't change just because we had returned to the US. The Internet has made cruising less complicated than before it existed, but a stateside address and professional mail forwarding service remains important to this lifestyle.

Congratulations on your giant step towards the cruising life.

Fair winds,

Jeanne

[CruisingSpirit]

Congratulations on your new boat, atavist. Keep us posted on your journeys.

Fair winds!

CruisingSpirit

[atavist]

Just an update.

Enchiridion is now registered in KY. The fee was only $50, and they didn't assess any use, sales or property taxes against her since she was bought out of state and will never come to KY... they were however nice enough, as I had hoped, to give me the registered/tax paid stickers which without some other state would probably hassle me for taxes... they did give me a bow number but as she is CG registered (already filed the change of owner stuff, now just waiting) I don't plan to put it on... I hate those, and plan to put her name on the bow instead but will have the stickers to show if anyone has any questions...