Bernard Moitessier - His Boats, Voyages And Ideas

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by Istioploos

Dmitri

Some time back I promised to give more details from the book (in Greek) of my friend Nikos Vartzikos who owned a Joshua with which he crossed the Atlantic singlehanded and cruised the Black Sea and Greenland. Here are some scans from his book:

Vasilis, thanks!

I also did some research and found two videos of Joshua. There was a turret on top of the companion hatch. On the second video at 2.10 one can see the inside wheel fitted on an extension of the shaft of the outside wheel, so the inside wheel and outside wheel are on opposite sides of the cabin end.

Joshua de Bernard Moitessier

Episode 1

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0IQYGDBZ3u8

Episode 2

http://www.youtube.c...&feature=relmfu

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Thanks for your advice, redbopeep.

To your analogy I will answer with real-life story. Patrick Childress of Newport, Rhode Island sailed second-hand Catalina 27' around the world after making considerable enhancements to the boat. Later he said: "People occasionally ask me what they should do to beef up their Catalina 27s for an ocean passage and I tell them: 'Buy a different kind of boat.'"

Yes, people sail all kinds of improbable boats around the world, not the boats designed for serious offshore, but the boats they have, I know that. Thanks, for reminding me. ...

Just in case you come across a modern long keel boat, please let me know.

Perhaps you are not a musician? Your Catalina 27 story is like having a concert pianist take a spinet on world tour. However, there are very few concert pianists on tour--but many more fledgling pianists dreaming of becoming concert pianists.

Please do go check out the blogs on the wiki. Most of those cruisers would not call their boats "improbable" for the task of cruising. Anything but!

However--back to YOU. Please do let us know your own plans and decisions you've made. You will be making your decision very soon if you plan on taking off cruising in 2 years. That is a very exciting thing.

Since you are going solo, you can go on a smaller boat...you might really go take a look to see what used BCC are on the market (see http://bluewaterboats.org/bristol-channel-cutter-28/) for a review. You can find fiberglass ones built in recent years. You can also find them carvel planked. A family of 4 completed the Northwest Passage in 2009 in one. Link. The "original" one designed for the Pardeys made it around all the Capes as I recall. For other bluewater boats--there are numerous reviews on that site as well. You may find something that you really like.

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

...

When we were looking for a serious cruising boat, we added additional constraints that you don't have (classic wooden boat by a reputable naval architect of the day (pre-1950's)) so I can't really help you with specifics of high quality, recently built, boats (unless they are wood). Find yourself a yacht broker and start looking at what's on the market. That will help you. We seriously looked for about 18 months before buying a boat (to rebuild). We looked in US, UK, Europe, and South America. We were agnostic regarding initial location of the boat as long as it was already rebuilt/strong/seaworthy or could be rebuilt where it lay.

...

Before finally deciding to go for a steel boat, I did all I could to find ways to buy / build long-keel boat, around 33', carvel planked, on steam or laminated frames. I love wood most of other construction materials and even have some boat building experience. Alas, eventually I had to give up the idea of wood, as building a new boat in a boatyard costs from quarter to half a million $ (no matter what country you build) which is well above my budget. I have no time, not enough skill, no well protected, warm hangar to build a boat myself.

It would be interesting to know more details about your boat: what year is a hull, carvel?, frames - steam or laminated?, where you found it, what you had to replace / modify, how you made your boat dry, protection from see worms, etc...

[redbopeep]

You can see info about our boat via our blog link.

At some point, everyone figure out what is really important for their own cruising--where they go, what they do, what sort of boat they buy. To some people (like me) the aesthetic experience is very, very important. To others, having something really low cost is important. To others, low maintenance. And on and on it goes.

However, there are numerous boats out there. Many, many, many boats on the market which are likely to fit your needs (once you figure out what those really are) and you can be happy with these boats. You do not have to build your own boat to have a wonderful cruising experience. If you like building things yourself, then it is different. However, you already said you will have someone else build the boat--so that seems that you are simply looking for the right boat and are willing to have it built if you cannot find it.

Did you look at all the lovely blue water boats on the link I provided? What did you think of them?

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Did you look at all the lovely blue water boats on the link I provided? What did you think of them?

Yes, thanks for the link. Some of these boats I met before. I have Tahiti Ketch book and studied her plans. Bristol Channel Cutter 28 is a beautiful boat, outrageously and unproportionally expensive and somewhat small for me. I need 34-36' boat to be able to accommodate up to 4 crew. I hope friends will visit me sometimes

I like Lin & Larry Pardey boats and some of their books too.

Notwithstanding Paul Gartside boats are my favorite and I seriously considered building one of them:

http://www.gartsideb...m-boatbuilding/

[redbopeep]

I don't understand--A large enough PG boat will be cold molded rather than carvel planked. But that's beside the point; you won't find a large enough Gartside boat for your plans for the sort of money you'd pay for a Hess (BCC). So??? If you want a Hess inspired boat (which Gartsides seem to be) then...look at something like the Jepersen built Magic (which was Hess inspired) on the market right now. Link to builder site. Link to boat for sale. Bigger than you want, and also cold molded, but there may be something out there that suits you better. Like one of the numerous production boats on that bluewater link

A family of 5 did a circumnavigation on a Rawson 30, btw. Many 4 person crews manage on smaller boats than you plan. However, you need to pick your boat for your planned cruising. If you will primarily cruise alone--be realistic about getting a boat that you can handle by yourself. Smaller being better usually. If you will be on a tight budget, smaller is better. If you will always have at least one other crew member, you can begin to assume that a bigger boat can be easily handled.

Will you primarily cruise solo? What are your cruising plans? I've asked the cruising plans question several times and you've not answered really. What are your cruising plans?

Fair winds,

[Chester]

Hello Dmitri,

I've only just come across this thread and there are lots of good pieces of advice. I think you should try some second hand boats out and see how they sail. Building something from scratch seems an expensive and high risk strategy. She might sail like a dog..... Try looking on www.Yachtworld.com which has thousands of second hand and new boats listed. You could well spend a few days in Sweden where a number of excellent blue water boatbuilders are located including Najad, Hallberg Rassy, Sweden Yachts all quite close together. You could have a lot of fun at no expense trying out some excellent boats before you made a decision.

Personally I sail a 43 foot Hanse which is ideally suited to medium/short distance cruising and family fun. However ...... an identical boat has circumnavigated including rounding Cape Horn.... not that I would ever dream of going to such an inhospitable place. In my book sailing should be safe and fun.

Good luck with your decision.

Peter Wood

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

I don't understand--A large enough PG boat will be cold molded rather than carvel planked. But that's beside the point; you won't find a large enough Gartside boat for your plans for the sort of money you'd pay for a Hess (BCC). So??? If you want a Hess inspired boat (which Gartsides seem to be) then...look at something like the Jepersen built Magic (which was Hess inspired) on the market right now. Link to builder site. Link to boat for sale. Bigger than you want, and also cold molded, but there may be something out there that suits you better. Like one of the numerous production boats on that bluewater link

A family of 5 did a circumnavigation on a Rawson 30, btw. Many 4 person crews manage on smaller boats than you plan. However, you need to pick your boat for your planned cruising. If you will primarily cruise alone--be realistic about getting a boat that you can handle by yourself. Smaller being better usually. If you will be on a tight budget, smaller is better. If you will always have at least one other crew member, you can begin to assume that a bigger boat can be easily handled.

Will you primarily cruise solo? What are your cruising plans? I've asked the cruising plans question several times and you've not answered really. What are your cruising plans?

Fair winds,

These are plans of Paul Gartside sail boats:

http://store.gartsid...tions/sailboats

Many of them are designed to be built carvel planked. For example:

38 ft Double Ended Ketch, Design #173

http://store.gartsid...ended-ketch-173

Construction: carvel on laminated frames

Unfortunately I have no time no money for this project.

You are right that small boats are easier to handle, yet they are slower and sometimes you need to run away from something bad ).

For example, Russian sailor Eugene Gvozdev two and a half times solo circled the world on tiny boats (he perished at sea in third circumnavigation) His did his first circumnavigation) on Lena dinghy:

http://www.wiki.ocea.../index.php/Lena

Need to say that I started this thread not to address my personal cruising needs, but discuss how Bernard Moitessier ideas about "three-horn-cruiser" evolved up to this day. What Is Joshua analog today?

Anyway, I can answer questions about my cruising plans as well:

In 3 - 4 years I plan to move out of the city completely to live aboard and sail all around the world wherever I please. Ambitious? Yes, but why else to live if not to see real, alive world. I am quite fed with various artificial substitutes already

Up to this day I quite often sailed alone, boats up to 38'. In crew also, up to 43'. My wife and my dog started to join me more and more often recently, but they are not yet ready to join me full-time. In any case, there will be times when I will not be alone on the boat, with up to 4-5 crew altogether. I feel good at 35' boat, can sail her alone and have enough space for my books

My cruising plans depend also on where I will get my boat. I am looking now at UK, Canada and US the last one familiar to me, as I lived before in San Francisco Bay Area for two years. In case I find a boat in UK - I plan to do repairs and upgrades also in UK and then move to France, Croatia or Turkey where I plan to keep the boat while I am in the process of moving from land to live aboard. (Keeping boat in Turkey boatyard maybe quite cheap). I still need to research prices in France - I love this country (my grand-grand father was a French poet, so I would be happy to sail around French cost for some time.

In case I get my boat in US or Canada, after some upgrade I will also sail myself across Atlantic to Europe to spend their my boat transition period. My sailing experience is varied but does not have much ocean going yet. About ten years ago I started sailing on very small and small boats and catamarans on big Russian lakes. After that I passed my IYT Bareboat Skipper exam, sailed with RYA Canary Islands mile-building program (my only ocean experience so far) and since then I regularly charter sail boats in Mediterranean. To get more blue-water experience I go with RYA from Azores to UK In May 2012.

When I get my boat I first plan to go from Ballears to Gibraltar to Canaries, then from Canaries across Atlantic along the ARC route. Then, we'll see!

[redbopeep]

Ah, we've digressed very far from your original post. I just re-read it. Since you went down the path of discussion of various boats and designs, I readily forgot your first post. Most people coming here do discuss what they are personally looking for and are happy to cut-to-the-chase so to speak.

Given all of that, The essence of the aesthetic that I love about sailing--that doesn't not exist in the boats that Mointessier chose or the life he appeared to live aboard. He is to be admired, for sure. I believe Moitessier to have been quite a modern thinker and totally into real function of the equipment so that the equipment could achieve his goals of voyaging under sail. I'm not sure that he would be going with a traditional full keel, for example, and given modern materials and reliable technologies now available now he might have made many different choices. Some things have changed so very much since the prime of his sailing. However, steel remains good and cheap so he'd likely stay with steel for high latitude sailing if he could not afford a good aluminum boat. But, then again, what do I know of Moitessier? not much.

Start a thread about your wonderful cruising plans! please. I'd love to continue that discussion without further muddying up the Moitessier thread.

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by Chester

Hello Dmitri,

I've only just come across this thread and there are lots of good pieces of advice. I think you should try some second hand boats out and see how they sail. Building something from scratch seems an expensive and high risk strategy. She might sail like a dog..... Try looking on www.Yachtworld.com which has thousands of second hand and new boats listed. You could well spend a few days in Sweden where a number of excellent blue water boatbuilders are located including Najad, Hallberg Rassy, Sweden Yachts all quite close together. You could have a lot of fun at no expense trying out some excellent boats before you made a decision.

Personally I sail a 43 foot Hanse which is ideally suited to medium/short distance cruising and family fun. However ...... an identical boat has circumnavigated including rounding Cape Horn.... not that I would ever dream of going to such an inhospitable place. In my book sailing should be safe and fun.

Good luck with your decision.

Peter Wood

Hello Peter!

Thanks for your comments. I agree that this thread has lots of good advice. I am really grateful to all thread contributors.

I sailed 43 ft Hanse around Canary islands, and know what you are talking about - good ocean-going boat, glad you have it! And, yes Sweden is famous for her boats, a friend of mine have bought 30 ft Albin Ballad in Sweden. He likes the boat very much. I was in Sweden just once, on the way to Norway where I visited Thor Heyerdahl Kon-Tiki (http://www.kon-tiki.no/e_aapning.php) and Viking Ship museums (http://www.khm.uio.no/index_eng.html)

As for old boats I also like:

Nicholson 32

http://sailboatdata....p?class_id=1192

http://www.yachtworl.../United-Kingdom

Nicholson 38

http://sailboatdata....p?class_id=4669

http://www.yachtworl.../United-Kingdom

[Steady Hand]

Your original post asked: "What would Bernard sail today?"

If racing I believe he would be on a very high tech French built catamaran built for high speed and high latitude sailing. If part of a current class race restricted to mono hulls I believe he would be sailing an Open 60, or similar.

I don't think he would be racing any steel boat.

Why? Proven single handed race boats that have gone around the world in races and are now made of light but strong materials such as carbon fiber etc.

If he were not racing?

In that case I bet he would be cruising on an Avni 43 or similar French aluminum sloop or cutter.
-----

You asked how he steered Joshua from below. He had a plexiglass bubble dome over his hatch. As I recall it came off an aircraft (old bombers and airliners used them for navigator to take star sights). He sat on the ladder while looking out the bubble. Not a comfortable perch, but he did it when the cockpit was too dangerous.