Blue Water Bottom Paints

[capta]

Good day all

Has anyone had any experience with Blue Water Paint Company bottom paints, specifically Copper Pro SCX 67?

I've found it for $159.95 online w/ a 67% copper content (way more than Micron), plus biocide. I am not trying to sell anyone, just hoping for first hand product knowledge.

Regards,

Andrew

[redbopeep]

Hi there,

As we're all aware, price isn't everything, nor is % copper. Hopefully someone will come along with direct experience with your proposed bottom paint to assist you with your query.

I recently spoke at length with someone who works in the State of California's regulatory office which handles bottom paints. She had a couple interesting facts--one of them is that bottom paint manufacturers that employ copper or copper oxides typically use two to three times the amount of copper needed to last the life of the paint substrate. The reason they do this is because when the boat owner first puts on the bottom paint, they'd like to see an immediate good result. This up-front immediate "it's so great" is the extra copper. After a few months, the performance is steady as it will be for most of the life of the paint. But, the customer is already hooked at that point. So, the extra copper oxides (which end up off your boat and in the water very quickly if your paint is ablative or co-polymer) are pretty much marketing-driven and not really needed for the purpose of antifouling.

I do note that the paint you're considering is an ABLATIVE bottom paint. Ablative bottom paints basically end up, very quickly, in the ocean environment and not on your boat. If you are environmentally conscious, you won't wish to use such a paint but rather you may consider the use of an effective hard bottom paint instead of an ablative.

Again, hopefully someone will come along with good insights for you on your particular paint of interest and in the area you'll be cruising in--btw--where are you cruising? This makes a difference in bottom paint choice as well. If you will be hauling out for more than 30 days, you won't want to use an ablative bottom paint as it will have to be re-done after that timeframe on the hard. Cold environment or a place where you'll haul for hurricane season...?

Fair winds,

[capta]

I shall be leaving the NE for the Caribbean & beyond.

Just out of curiosity, I guess 'cause I'm really dumb, but what harm does copper in infinitesimal quantities do to an ocean?

Isn't it a natural occurring substance already found in sea water?

Enlighten me.

Andrew

[Silver Raven]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Hi there,

As we're all aware, price isn't everything, nor is % copper. Hopefully someone will come along with direct experience with your proposed bottom paint to assist you with your query.

G'day & thanks for the msgs's. If anyone wants to look up my 'profile' they may see that I've spent all of my adult (ha ha I'm male - can't be adult yet - now can I) of over 50 yrs. working on the waterfronts in 4 countries. Painted antifouling on more than 500 boats - of all building materials & constructions. On boats that 'can' use 'copper based' antifouling - I would suggest that they be considered seriously. They CAN be an excellent antifouling. I must admit that none of the boats I painted were to be 'laid-up' on the hard for extensive periods of time for any reason & there are many. The most successful 'copper based antifouling' that I ever applied was 'Copper-bot' which we sourced from England. It was a 'semi-hard' very slow release a/f. It was NOT cheap however it was still 'very effective 5 whole years down the track. The owner - a retired Admiral in the Royal Navy was cruising around the world with a group of 'like-minded-yachties'. (a 24 month circum-nav) The yacht was 48' Mast-head cutter rig, 'wing-keel' and although well & cautiously sailed was 'very quick' indeed. The yacht was never at anchor for any length of time (over a month) - (big factor in the life expectancy of all a/f's) & was kept in the water at all times. Some 6 yrs. after the a/f was applied in Cairns, Qld, Australia - I had continual contact with the owner who (much to my amazement) said (when the yacht was slipped - then back in England) that there was no need to apply any new a/t as it was still working very well. There was still lots of a/t on the bottom & no marine growth of any kind was noted at the time of slipping. Personally I will be 'looking' very carefully at going in that direction when I put my cat back in the water. (after total redesign/rebuild) Having said all that - there is much 'finite' detail which I have not gone into here as to the preparation & application as I am only trying (sometimes VERY as my lovely 'green-eyes' is want to remind me) to let people know what I personally have found. That refers to all a/f's. I am not trying to talk anyone into going one way or the other. - - Hey there - moderators' I have no direct or indirect financial or any other interest in this product, company or method - of any kind. In other words - this is not an 'advertisement' paid or otherwise.(that's a joke - for the rest of you - although it's a bit of an 'IN' joke). If anyone wants to know more I suggest they contact the company direct - - however if anyone wants to know the little 'IN' tricks - I'll be happy to offer some suggestions - - either in - off 'forums' or in these pages. The total cost of all info from me it that anyone who gets it is 1/ pass it on at the same price - FOC / NOBC & 2/ they share some (many) 'sun-downers' with fellow boaties. I just don't want to 'waffle-on' & take up valuable space or be a blinken nuisance to anyone. Further to Rebopeep's question about where the vessel will be kept or sailed - my observation, over 50 yrs, is that it doesn't matter IF one chooses a 'top' brand, high quality a/f & it is professionally applied (everyone can do any job at that quality - if they put their mind(s) to it) as the above example positively shows. My apologies for 'going-on' at the mouth - so much. Don't mean to offend anyone. Ciao from the - down-under 'geri-hat-trick'

[JeanneP]

Originally Posted by capta

I shall be leaving the NE for the Caribbean & beyond.

Just out of curiosity, I guess 'cause I'm really dumb, but what harm does copper in infinitesimal quantities do to an ocean?

Isn't it a natural occurring substance already found in sea water?

Enlighten me.

Andrew

In the big blue ocean it doesn't mean very much. However, in the relatively shallow and enclosed bays and anchorages of the world, it is significant. In Charlotte Amalie, for example, the harbor is a bit of a sewer - a whole lot of boats in a big basin with a relatively narrow entrance. And a tidal range of about 6 inches. The water is not flushed out, it just sits there and stagnates. The copper, heavier than water, sinks to the bottom. It is the reason that the most effective antifouling, containing tributyl tin, has been banned. It collected in significant concentrations in the Chesapeake, for example, and caused harmful mutations in oysters and other sea creatures.

Most cruising boats find a comfortable harbor and stay. For weeks, month, sometimes years. I've seen boats in Simpson Bay Lagoon in St. Martin/Sint Maarten that didn't move for 3 years in there! Copper is a heavy metal, I'll bet that the bottom of the lagoon has a rather high concentration of copper by now.

[redbopeep]

Silver Raven, Coppercoat is the "new name" for the UK company product that used to be called Copperbot. That, according to a Coppercoat representative, so I guess it is so. There seemed to be a different Copperbot company, but what do I know

We used Coppercoat just prior to our 4/2009 launch of the boat. Seems to work great in California. Some sliming of it in So. Cal that could be wiped off with your hand, nothing up here in the colder waters of San Francisco Bay. Still works best with monthly "wipe down" by hand while diving. I don't think it is maintenance free. Many cruisers choose ablative bottom paints because the "sell" is that while water moves over the boat underway, the paint ablates and new antifoul appears, thus, no critters attached to the hull. All that is worthless if one doesn't move around much, of course.

+++

[capta]

Good day again

As much as this is a very interesting spin off to my thread, I am just trying to find out if anyone out there has had any experience w/

with Blue Water Paint Company bottom paints, specifically Copper Pro SCX 67?

As I'm a cruiser, I'll not be "camping out" in any specific harbor, but I will be in the tropics for some time. No winter on the hard, but some ventures up the Orinoco & Amazon rivers.

I do not believe I can put hard paint over the ablative I have now, Interlux Epoxicop, which is no longer produced.

Regards,

Andrew

[redbopeep]

You're right about having to stay with ablative unless you remove the old stuff. Hopefully someone with the experience you seek comes along... good luck