Boat Compairison

[Sailboatman]

My wife and i have narrowed our quest for our live aboard. A Cal 39, tall rig, fin keel, low initial cost, and we will have to install or replace what we want to have. The other is a CSY 44 with almost everything done on it but it is more than double the cost. We plan to start our adventure two years from now.

Two years on the east coast, two years on the west coast then off out to the pacific islands.

These two boats are almost complete opposites i know but if you can give me your opinions from what you have learned we would be grateful.

Thanks for your time.

[Seafarer]

If you plan to ever charter, the CSY 44 would be the better boat for it. You could give the aft cabin over to the clients where they won't be in the way.

If you haven't ever looked at a Freedom 40, I'd highly recomend it. I'm partial to the center-cockpit model. Sadly, hull #1 slipped through my grasp

[few degrees off]

My suggestion is keep looking both boats have a place but being this far apart you haven’t decided on what YOU want! Have you thought about sail plan? Have you considered engine size? When someone takes that big step and starts looking I suggest that you seize on at least a few options be the option romantic or practical, when it’s a couple I suggest they compare the list and then start looking again.

I like a cutter rig, because it looks good with full sail plan, the benefits are real but not dramatic. The idea is to find something that narrows the field for you. Think hull or layout, sail plan, length or just cost but it will be your boat so you need to be very happy before you purchase. Another thought is the cost so far apart once you install or replace the thing you want to have?

This is just an opinion but then I’m a few degrees off all the time.

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[Sailboatman]

The delema for me is do i want a heavy cutter rig with a more shallow draft that is slow, or a deep fin lighter weight sloop that is fairly fast. the Cal ends up being about 20k cheaper overall. When cruising the pacific is it better to have the weight or the speed?

Thanks for the replies.

[Seafarer]

It's all a matter of opinion. If you get a boat that is moderate in most respects, you will be hard pressed to be displeased. Moderate draft, moderate displacement, moderate sailing ability, moderate cost.

I don't know your financial situation, but I'd start with looking at the cost of things. Will the CSY still cost twice as much after refurbishing the Cal? Will the CSY make you twice as happy?

Do you currently sail? If so, do you day-sail, overnight, or race? Can you test-sail each of the boats you're looking at, or at least boats very similar to them (any local YCs hold weekly racing series)?

You have to discover what is important to you in a boat/home, and use that to narrow your choices. What do you like about each of these boats? What do you dislike? Take out two pages, put the type of boat at the top of each page, and make two columns: Pros and Cons.

If you haven't done so already, try to go to a local yacht brokerage and get a tour of many different boats in the size range you are interested in. You will quickly get a feel for what interior layouts you like. Try to keep in mind, however, that an interior that works at the dock may not be so handy at sea. This is less of a concern aboard multihulls.

I've always been picky about interiors. I like accessable cup-holders in my cars, and no tables running down the middle of my boats. No galleys that run under the compainonway, either. I'm flexible on almost everything else!

[Jack Tyler]

Sailboatman:

Obviously, we can't tell you whether either boat is better for you. They both have been successfully used by others for the kinds of cruising you plan to do (and so naturally, as liveaboards, as well). And I agree they represent opposite ends of a continuum in many ways, which does lead one to wonder what 'middle ground' boats you should be considering. But FWIW here are a few thought for you two to mull:

The Cal's main disadvantage insofar as your plans and which I'm aware is its draft; many came with a 7'+ keel depth that will make her a great sailing boat in the Pacific but present some obstacles for you on the East Coast. Some think this also makes the boat unsuitable for visiting the Bahamas but that simply isn't true IME - you'll just have to be thoughtful about your anchorage choices. One SF Bay couple we met who arrived in Norfolk (came to the Caribbean via the Canal)and wanted to cruise the Chesapeake, another area with many shallow spots, had enjoyed cruising her everywhere including on the Bay but found it difficult to find a winter berth and also storage on the hard; this was up in the N end of the Bay. We met a family in Horta (Azores) who were having a ball on their Cal 39 (4 of them), relying principally on a vane for self-steering. I haven't heard much negative said about C39's from a cruising perspective...altho' all the normal warnings and precautions exist re: buying an older boat for a demanding use.

The CSY seems to gather gobs of negative and positive comments so IMO it fits into a more narrow slot: do you want to accept the massive displacement, limited maneuverability (and its handling issues) and sheer bulk (especially after some deck it out as tho' it were an RV or Conestoga Wagon) for its at-sea comfort and vast cabin space? I was just informally surveying one of these last week for a fellow and, while some would be pleased at the heavy laminate lay-up sked, I think it's hugely overkill (e.g. 1"+ above the waterline). OTOH there are some cruising these boats out in the Pacific who want to carry all the systems, which this boat can accommodate, and view the displacement as 'safety'. I certainly would not expect to find her generally pleasant to sail on the East Coast with its variable winds; the 5' draft and long, flat, slab-sided keel with down-pointing shaft & prop don't inspire one to think of pleasing sailing upwind or in less than big winds.

Think some more about the details of your plans, your budget, and your preferences. If one of these boats appeals, I would think the other should be shouting 'No, no, no...!'

Jack

[Bedouin]

I would have to agree with the last comment from Jack "If one appeals then the other should be screaming no, no". Maybe it is early days in the decission making process on the choice of yacht as there are hundreds that fit between your choices. While just about any yacht can do what your plans are often it comes down to personal choice and a balanced acceptance of whay you finally decide is YOUR YACHT. Some begin looking with a definate criterior and some are open to looking for something that will do it but not sure what that is!! For example some 'cruisers' wouldn't consider a fin keel prefering a full length instead while there are fin keels cruising without a concern.

Now that I haven't helped in any way I have to say that the advise given is good advise. Compare yachts. If you can't get a demo sail on one then give that one a miss but not the make in total. Would you buy a used car without a test drive? Think about comfort at anchor and under way, a balance is better than a very comfortable yacht at anchor that's a dog under way.

Hope you find 'your ideal yacht' but don't rush it, she will present herself to you and you'll know; with the experiance gained from knowledge and comparing.

Regards

Peter

[SV THIRD DAY]

Having just bought a boat (Pearson 365 Ketch) the big advise I could give you would be get out and look at as many boats as you can! The more you see and get on, the better you will be able to nail down exactly what you want. One word of caution on buying a "cheaper" boat that needs things over a more outfitted boat. My Pearson 365 Ketch went for $37K...and I knew it needed lots of things...well, so far those "things" have put me up at a total out of pocket cost of $55K. The list is long...all new electronics, bottom work, new water system, new electrical system...on and on. I love the boat and like having all BRAND NEW systems and electronics before I head out on a 1-2 yrs cruise with the family...but I probabally could have saved $ by taking advantage of the depreciation on all of the "used" equipment.

Good luck....

Rich