Budget Cruising

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Mate1860

" I still don't see the equipment being the big thing that eats up cruisers' budgets though. It's the flights home to see family, rental cars, side trips, eating out, clothes, hefty bar bills, diving trips/equipment, and a variety of other costs that nibble away at the cruiser's budget until there's not much left. The boat often gets substandard equipment while the local entertainment and bar-tab is huge. That's my observation of where some of the money goes in cruising these days."

One reason we are enjoying Alaska so much, besides the beautiful scenery, I have not heard of any anchorages being charged for and certainly no permitsare required with the exception of Glacier Bay. Almost every town has a state float and half of those are free. Moorage is still very reasonable in most towns, but that is changing. Sitka's Eliason Harbor saw a huge increase in transient rates last year and a few more state docks will start charging next year, Baranof Warm Springs for example.

We have spent the last seven years cruising and honestly feel we have more freedom and cash left in our pockets to enjoy cruising life here. We paid $700.00 p/m to keep our 27' boat in Honolulu in 2012 and we are paying under $200.00 p/m in Petersburg plus about $70.00 p/m for electricity during the winter. Generally our largest expense is food, we eat out maybe once a week. We have no other monthly expenses, own our boat and have zero debt. That took some doing.... How much does it cost to go cruising? Simple, as much or as little as you want to spend.

Well said. But what the other poster was referring to was the so called "cruisers" that fly to the location of their boat then go off for a week or two maybe sailing to another port then fly back home for a bit, back and forth. In my opinion these people are not cruiseing even though they would have you believe they are. To me these are the same as the weekenders that go out for a day sail or overnight. There are among the same group those that consider a circumnavigation via this method, which may take many years, as the same as a circumnavigation all in one shot with stops only for provisions and repairs.

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by bfloyd4445

Well said. But what the other poster was referring to was the so called "cruisers" that fly to the location of their boat then go off for a week or two maybe sailing to another port then fly back home for a bit, back and forth. In my opinion these people are not cruiseing even though they would have you believe they are. To me these are the same as the weekenders that go out for a day sail or overnight. There are among the same group those that consider a circumnavigation via this method, which may take many years, as the same as a circumnavigation all in one shot with stops only for provisions and repairs.

Hey there. I think I'm the poster you're referring to. Those aren't exactly the folks I was talking about. Not at all. I'm talking widely about folks who are spending quite a bit on flights to "visit" family or extensive in-country travel that can really add up to a hefty bill. Similarly, some folks cruising aren't on a tight budget for entertainment, eating out and bar bills. Those folks can spend quite a bit on consumables never to be seen again

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Hey there. I think I'm the poster you're referring to. Those aren't exactly the folks I was talking about. Not at all. I'm talking widely about folks who are spending quite a bit on flights to "visit" family or extensive in-country travel that can really add up to a hefty bill. Similarly, some folks cruising aren't on a tight budget for entertainment, eating out and bar bills. Those folks can spend quite a bit on consumables never to be seen again

...chuckle....But you know after a long passage one does sometimes find a need to get out on land and stretch ones legs a bit and see the sights so to speak. I guess " cruising on a budget" needs defining in order to really determine if something falls under "
cruising under a budget" or not

[Auzzee]

'Cruising on a budget' and 'budget cruising', have separate meanings. If I have $100k per annum to spend on cruising, I am cruising on that budget. Budget cruising, as in my original post is a different animal:
"The DIY sailor, with an old boat kept together with love, spirit and knowledge...and with just a little bit of money was once able to sail the seven seas free of exorbitant anchorage fees, free of hideous entry and exit fees, and free of the shackles placed upon the sailor by the evolution or more and more powerful, and expensive, technological 'necessities' ".

To me, the budget cruiser is the sea borne equivalent of the backpacker who wants to spend a year or two travelling the world with limited financial resources. This doesn't necessarily include the paupers who live aboard an unseaworthy vessel, anchored up a creek and moored to the bottom by ever strengthening vegetation and moored to civilisation by a multitude of conspiracy theories.

It's the ordinary people who have worked, have a few dollars, like to eat in a restaurant occasionally and who had the knowledge to navigate a boat before forward looking sonar, air conditioning and an entertainment station became de rigueur.

It's me.

[Cowboy Cruiser]

Well said and that is what I thought you intended from the start. But how about ordinary people who don't know what "de rigueur" is?

[Auzzee]

Posh for 'trendy'.

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by Cowboy Cruiser

Well said and that is what I thought you intended from the start. But how about ordinary people who don't know what "de rigueur" is?

Once upon a time, cruisers were pretty much ordinary people who just wanted to take off and sail to different places near-and-far. They may or may not have had bundles of money; they may or may not of had any opinions at all about what was absolutely required for the success of their voyages. They were lucky enough to be "before" the non-cruising world had any sort of opinions about cruising or equipment and outfitting for the successful voyage.

Those were the "good old days" because people just did what they did and the world at large wasn't opining upon it.

Today, there are too many opinions about boating, skill, gear, and what one chooses to do with their time cruising. The cruising world is getting quite crowded with all the opinions.

I do think that cost-creep and present thinking on what is "minimal" is now so high a hurdle that some people will never go cruising with what they are able to pull together. Is that sad? No, not for me. It just means there will be more room in the anchorages for me, me, me ! Please encourage every potential cruiser that he/she/they cannot possible leave the dock until they have the following:

New electronics including but not limited to broadband radar w/huge screen, AIS, the latest-greatest chart plotting equipment and programs, don't let them forget the FLS that integrates into their fancy chart ploter; they must have a Pactor/SSB/HF radio that a serious HAM would be proud of, the latest and greatest SAT phone/email, too. Tell them they need at least 3 GPS systems (and your IPAD or a mouse doesn't count), two identical brand new laptops (one to be kept in a Faraday box with their other spare electronics), at least three camera systems including an underwater camera and housing a freelancer for National Geographic would be thrilled with and a GoPro Hero III so they can share all their exploits on YouTube...

Remind them that they must have at least two complete autopilot systems along with an overbuilt wind steerer installed. They also need to have spare parts for every system aboard. Oh, and while they're at it--they must take apart their engine and make sure all the spare parts fit since sometimes they don't you know Put the fear of god into them on this one--they'll lay awake at nights wondering how many spares are "enough" and how many of those spares they need to pre-install, just in case. This thing alone could set them back a couple years in their plans of cruising. Ah, more space in those anchorages for me, me, me

Tell them they also need brand new anchors--and they need all chain rode, too of course. At least 300 ft, maybe 600 ft, yes. Oh, as well as a couple 600 ft reels of high tech floating line for the times they might possibly want to look like they're prepared to anchor in the fjords off Chile; never mind that they'll never go there, that's not the point. Oh, while we're at it--make sure they sell their perfectly good mid-80's era fiberglass boat and pick up an aluminum hulled vessel that will be able to handle a tangle with an iceberg. It doesn't matter that they'll never sail to those high latitudes--tell them they need to "be prepared" for anything. Tankage--they need to be able to carry 400 gallons of water, 500 gallons of diesel and since you've talked them into a nice RIB with a 25 hp motor, they really need 50 to 100 gallons of gasoline aboard. Get them in touch with a great stainless steel welding guru to make davits that will cost about the same as a new car to help carry that awesome RIB. They also need new hefty stanchions made to support the weight of all the jerry jugs of gasoline on deck.

Supplies--put the fear of god into them about how they might run out of TP or their favorite chocolate in the middle of the Pacific. Make sure they have MRE 's aboard for a crew of 10 as well as enough frozen meat in the freezer for 6 months.

On the rig--whether or not they dumped that old boat and picked up the new aluminum one, they really need to make sure and re-do all the standing and running rigging to an ocean racing capability. They must purchase all new sails--and please tell them they can't possibly make do with cheap Taiwanese sails--they must go to a top sail maker with reputation for outfitting long distance cruisers for epic travels like those which show up on the Discovery channel or on the lecture circuit associated with the boat shows. They need two of everything and an entire suite of light wind sails to go with their entire suite of storm sails. Don't let them forget the drogue system while they're thinking about storms.

Ah, and they must attend at least a dozen boat shows, buying every little gadget that comes into view before they're ready to even contemplate an overnight sail to a nearby anchorage. At the boat shows they can find wonderful high prices on things they really need to have aboard like a 70 gallon per hour watermaker, a spiffy MOB system, new electric winches, a crew watch system, professional ocean-racer quality foul weather gear, oh, a dry suit, a wet suit, a dive compressor system, and don't let them forget to buy the most awesome new refrigeration system on the market. While at the shows, they can have new space-age cushions made and don't let them forget the Froli system for ventilation under the mattresses.

Introduce them to the canvas makers and stainless steel welders who will be able to design and make the most awesome cockpit enclosure for them. Explain that they must have something with loads of Eisenglass. Don't forget the entire boat awning system for those hot tropical climates, either. They must have it all.

While they're at the shows, they can also learn about the 1200 watts of solar panels they really must find a way to fit on top of their brand new dodger/enclosed cockpit system. The solar won't fully support the new boat air conditioning system they installed so they'll need to get two wind generators installed, a towing (water) generator of the sort the ocean racers like, and a diesel gen-set of, oh maybe 8 kW or more. Just in case..

Thinking of things that spin...tell them they really can't make it w/o a spare prop. Oh, and that fixed blade prop they have--just won't do--they need a variable pitch prop at a minimum. Perhaps they'd even like to go with a controllable pitch prop. Why? well, that prop walk can be really dangerous, you know...

The good news is if they listen to this advice, they'll never go anywhere because their boat won't have enough freeboard to leave the dock. More room in those anchorages for me, me, me

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by Auzzee

'Cruising on a budget' and 'budget cruising', have separate meanings. If I have $100k per annum to spend on cruising, I am cruising on that budget. Budget cruising, as in my original post is a different animal:
"The DIY sailor, with an old boat kept together with love, spirit and knowledge...and with just a little bit of money was once able to sail the seven seas free of exorbitant anchorage fees, free of hideous entry and exit fees, and free of the shackles placed upon the sailor by the evolution or more and more powerful, and expensive, technological 'necessities' ".

To me, the budget cruiser is the sea borne equivalent of the backpacker who wants to spend a year or two travelling the world with limited financial resources. This doesn't necessarily include the paupers who live aboard an unseaworthy vessel, anchored up a creek and moored to the bottom by ever strengthening vegetation and moored to civilisation by a multitude of conspiracy theories.

It's the ordinary people who have worked, have a few dollars, like to eat in a restaurant occasionally and who had the knowledge to navigate a boat before forward looking sonar, air conditioning and an entertainment station became de rigueur.

It's me.

That pretty much along the lines of how I would define budget cruiser. Seems to me cruising on a budget and budget cruising are synonyms,

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Once upon a time, cruisers were pretty much ordinary people who just wanted to take off and sail to different places near-and-far. They may or may not have had bundles of money; they may or may not of had any opinions at all about what was absolutely required for the success of their voyages. They were lucky enough to be "before" the non-cruising world had any sort of opinions about cruising or equipment and outfitting for the successful voyage.

Those were the "good old days" because people just did what they did and the world at large wasn't opining upon it.

Today, there are too many opinions about boating, skill, gear, and what one chooses to do with their time cruising. The cruising world is getting quite crowded with all the opinions.

I do think that cost-creep and present thinking on what is "minimal" is now so high a hurdle that some people will never go cruising with what they are able to pull together. Is that sad? No, not for me. It just means there will be more room in the anchorages for me, me, me ! Please encourage every potential cruiser that he/she/they cannot possible leave the dock until they have the following:

New electronics including but not limited to broadband radar w/huge screen, AIS, the latest-greatest chart plotting equipment and programs, don't let them forget the FLS that integrates into their fancy chart ploter; they must have a Pactor/SSB/HF radio that a serious HAM would be proud of, the latest and greatest SAT phone/email, too. Tell them they need at least 3 GPS systems (and your IPAD or a mouse doesn't count), two identical brand new laptops (one to be kept in a Faraday box with their other spare electronics), at least three camera systems including an underwater camera and housing a freelancer for National Geographic would be thrilled with and a GoPro Hero III so they can share all their exploits on YouTube...

Remind them that they must have at least two complete autopilot systems along with an overbuilt wind steerer installed. They also need to have spare parts for every system aboard. Oh, and while they're at it--they must take apart their engine and make sure all the spare parts fit since sometimes they don't you know Put the fear of god into them on this one--they'll lay awake at nights wondering how many spares are "enough" and how many of those spares they need to pre-install, just in case. This thing alone could set them back a couple years in their plans of cruising. Ah, more space in those anchorages for me, me, me

Tell them they also need brand new anchors--and they need all chain rode, too of course. At least 300 ft, maybe 600 ft, yes. Oh, as well as a couple 600 ft reels of high tech floating line for the times they might possibly want to look like they're prepared to anchor in the fjords off Chile; never mind that they'll never go there, that's not the point. Oh, while we're at it--make sure they sell their perfectly good mid-80's era fiberglass boat and pick up an aluminum hulled vessel that will be able to handle a tangle with an iceberg. It doesn't matter that they'll never sail to those high latitudes--tell them they need to "be prepared" for anything. Tankage--they need to be able to carry 400 gallons of water, 500 gallons of diesel and since you've talked them into a nice RIB with a 25 hp motor, they really need 50 to 100 gallons of gasoline aboard. Get them in touch with a great stainless steel welding guru to make davits that will cost about the same as a new car to help carry that awesome RIB. They also need new hefty stanchions made to support the weight of all the jerry jugs of gasoline on deck.

Supplies--put the fear of god into them about how they might run out of TP or their favorite chocolate in the middle of the Pacific. Make sure they have MRE 's aboard for a crew of 10 as well as enough frozen meat in the freezer for 6 months.

On the rig--whether or not they dumped that old boat and picked up the new aluminum one, they really need to make sure and re-do all the standing and running rigging to an ocean racing capability. They must purchase all new sails--and please tell them they can't possibly make do with cheap Taiwanese sails--they must go to a top sail maker with reputation for outfitting long distance cruisers for epic travels like those which show up on the Discovery channel or on the lecture circuit associated with the boat shows. They need two of everything and an entire suite of light wind sails to go with their entire suite of storm sails. Don't let them forget the drogue system while they're thinking about storms.

Ah, and they must attend at least a dozen boat shows, buying every little gadget that comes into view before they're ready to even contemplate an overnight sail to a nearby anchorage. At the boat shows they can find wonderful high prices on things they really need to have aboard like a 70 gallon per hour watermaker, a spiffy MOB system, new electric winches, a crew watch system, professional ocean-racer quality foul weather gear, oh, a dry suit, a wet suit, a dive compressor system, and don't let them forget to buy the most awesome new refrigeration system on the market. While at the shows, they can have new space-age cushions made and don't let them forget the Froli system for ventilation under the mattresses.

Introduce them to the canvas makers and stainless steel welders who will be able to design and make the most awesome cockpit enclosure for them. Explain that they must have something with loads of Eisenglass. Don't forget the entire boat awning system for those hot tropical climates, either. They must have it all.

While they're at the shows, they can also learn about the 1200 watts of solar panels they really must find a way to fit on top of their brand new dodger/enclosed cockpit system. The solar won't fully support the new boat air conditioning system they installed so they'll need to get two wind generators installed, a towing (water) generator of the sort the ocean racers like, and a diesel gen-set of, oh maybe 8 kW or more. Just in case..

Thinking of things that spin...tell them they really can't make it w/o a spare prop. Oh, and that fixed blade prop they have--just won't do--they need a variable pitch prop at a minimum. Perhaps they'd even like to go with a controllable pitch prop. Why? well, that prop walk can be really dangerous, you know...

The good news is if they listen to this advice, they'll never go anywhere because their boat won't have enough freeboard to leave the dock. More room in those anchorages for me, me, me

When I started to read your post I was sure judging from its length that you had covered everything, but alas!! You have forgotten the most important item of all, there is no mention of grog!1....geezzz...and not one single beer is listed. I'm sorry my friend but your cruiseing equipped vessel above is entirely inadequate for even dockside use..Better go buy a new yacht and start over....chuckle...

[Auzzee]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Remind them that they must have at least two complete autopilot systems along with an overbuilt wind steerer installed. They also need to have spare parts for every system aboard. Oh, and while they're at it--they must take apart their engine and make sure all the spare parts fit since sometimes they don't you know Put the fear of god into them on this one--they'll lay awake at nights wondering how many spares are "enough" and how many of those spares they need to pre-install, just in case. This thing alone could set them back a couple years in their plans of cruising. Ah, more space in those anchorages for me, me, me

Great post Brenda. I would add one small rider: On no account must any aspiring cruiser be directed to read any book written by Lyn and Larry Pardey. Their works may give potential cruisers the impetus to set off without first having bought shares in West Marine.

[steve_h]

Brenda,

Wise words born from experience no doubt

[redbopeep]

Agree with you Auzzee Lin and Larry would blow that advice right outta the water! Oh...and I forgot to mention the 2000 amphrs of batteries, inverter(s), and charging systems needed to support all those electronic...nor the awesome fire suppression system, bilge pumps, and the gourmet galley just like home....oh, and then there's the private head with shower for each stateroom, a bathtub for the owners' suite...and yes, it must be a "suite" not just a stateroom! Well, perhaps instead of the high lat aluminum monohull, the best thing for the potential cruiser is to get into a big multihull so they have have all their space, just like home, and privacy from their guests, just like home. Yes, that's the ticket--it must be "just like home" but able to go anywhere on a whim, world-wide

[bfloyd4445]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Agree with you Auzzee Lin and Larry would blow that advice right outta the water! Oh...and I forgot to mention the 2000 amphrs of batteries, inverter(s), and charging systems needed to support all those electronic...nor the awesome fire suppression system, bilge pumps, and the gourmet galley just like home....oh, and then there's the private head with shower for each stateroom, a bathtub for the owners' suite...and yes, it must be a "suite" not just a stateroom! Well, perhaps instead of the high lat aluminum monohull, the best thing for the potential cruiser is to get into a big multihull so they have have all their space, just like home, and privacy from their guests, just like home. Yes, that's the ticket--it must be "just like home" but able to go anywhere on a whim, world-wide

and don't forget the big screen for the games!

[bikofour]

great read, but have a question - if you had to select 5 pieces of essential kit for blue cruising what would they be??????

[Cowboy Cruiser]

I'm thinking the boat has to be #1!

[svhoneybee]

A good companion as crew is more important than anything.

[bikofour]

Hi Cowboy Cruiser,

Thinking more than a good sense of humour, which in blue cruise sailing is mandatory !!!!!!

[Auzzee]

Good question Bikofour. For the budget cruiser, requirements are largely covered by CAT 1 Safety Requirements (http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/up...-CATEGORY1.pdf). Although this is a requirement for racing yachts, it covers the basics well and is, from a cruising safety perspective, similar to over-rigging.

Given that we would cruise with a seaworthy hull, good rig, sails, engine, ground tackle and the basics such as paper charts, GPS, HF, VHF, depth sounder, and safety gear including an EPIRB, PFDs (As outlined in CAT 1) etc., my personal choice would be:
1) Fishing gear
2) Refrigeration (preferably engine driven eutectic)
3) Hot water (also engine enabled through heat transfer)
4) Satellite phone (lotsa people worry about me)
5) Kindle

I may refine this list after a little more thought, but for the moment that would keep me happy.

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by Auzzee

Good question Bikofour. For the budget cruiser, requirements are largely covered by CAT 1 Safety Requirements (http://www.rqys.com.au/wp-content/up...-CATEGORY1.pdf). Although this is a requirement for racing yachts, it covers the basics well and is, from a cruising safety perspective, similar to over-rigging.

Given that we would cruise with a seaworthy hull, good rig, sails, engine, ground tackle and the basics such as paper charts, GPS, HF, VHF, depth sounder, and safety gear including an EPIRB, PFDs (As outlined in CAT 1) etc., my personal choice would be:
1) Fishing gear
2) Refrigeration (preferably engine driven eutectic)
3) Hot water (also engine enabled through heat transfer)
4) Satellite phone (lotsa people worry about me)
5) Kindle

I may refine this list after a little more thought, but for the moment that would keep me happy.

Auzzee, we officially don't have any of the above 5 things aboard except the fishing gear (and we consider that part of the safety/survival gear).

The unofficial versions?
refrigeration-- cool bilge
hot water-- solar shower or stove top kettle (don't use the engine enough to consider that a viable source for a heat exchanger but maybe we'll install one someday far down the line)
sat phone-- having spent a lifetime of ignoring family/friends for weeks and months at a time, they're well trained and used to no comm from us
Kindle-- can always read ebooks on the notebook computer; if we ever had time to just kick back and read, maybe we'd do something different though.

We're all lucky we don't have to select 5 essential things. I agree with the offshore racing lists of things which must be aboard for ocean racing. A couple things that won't show up on those lists or though they're there, may not have the same emphasis that I put on them--

+a happy crew w/o the three D's (drunks, druggies, or dramatics);
+reliable autopilot of some sort;
+reliable engine;
+reliable mechanical (not solar or wind) charging system (e.g. alternator if the engine under 40hp; genset or generator if boat engine is over 40hp)
+an extensive bosun's kit for sewing/sail repair/rig and ropework (includes a sewing machine and rigger's vice among other things);
+a similarly good mechanic's kit for mech/elect repair/hull maintenance;
+a galley equipped with good stove, sink (w/salt-water tap and drain system) and cooking equipment;
+sufficient fuel and water tankage for the passages to be undertaken.

[bfloyd4445]

Naw, there are only four essential ingredients period and those are #1) The cruiser 2) boat to cruise in 3) ocean to cruise on. The forth is optional but one I consider essential 4) enough beer and grog to last the whole cruise.
everything else is icing on the cake as the seas are full of fish to eat and the islands abound with green stuff to accent the fish dinners. Oh, and Rimas has taught us that any other needs that pop up are no worry just whine a bit and the cruiser community will provide. < smile>