Opinions Needed For My First Cruiser!

[jonneely]

Hello all! I am currently planning a trip for a circumnavigation, going as far south as New Zealand and as far north as Southern NE Russia. I am currently looking at a few boats and would like to see what you guys and girls think of the options, the prices of all of these are quite similar so I am just looking for Ideas. This passage will be done with two people.

1979 C&C 36

1979 Ericson 35

1978 Bayfield 32

1973 Mariner 31

Any info or input will and would be great!

Thanks,

Jon Neely

[redbopeep]

Hi, Jon,

Welcome to Cruiserlog! First off, what are your sailing experiences? Also--what is it about these boats that you found attractive or potentially suitable for your own use? If budget/price happens to be the common factor, you might want to start again...What are your goals? If you tell us what is important to you, we can likely help you better figure out which boat/boats are more suited to your particular needs/wants.

There are many discussions here on CL about boat purchase, so you should peruse the forums and read, read, read, too

Fair winds,

[sailorman14]

Hey Jon,

The first thing you should do before buying any boat is to check a good sailboat calculator that will give you all the detail info and compare the different boats. You really need to know things like the capsize ratio, motion comfort level, displacement to LWL. Check the sailcalculatorpro to see what I mean. Capsize ratio and motion comfort level is very important when you are offshore.

One small boat that I like is the Allied Seawind II or the westsail 32 but it might not be big enough for what you want. Compare these boats to the ones you are looking at.

[MMNETSEA]

Jon, welcome to Cruiser Log,

Both Redbopeep and Sailorman14 raise the right questions to ask yourself

If one looks at the designs of your listed boats, then one will stand out as having the best 'water line length' relative to its 'length over all' ; the former providing the answer to the boat's maximum speed under normal conditions.

1979 C&C 36 The cruiser/racer sloop has a LWL of 27' 8"

Its internal measurements also provide much more living space

30 year old boat

1979 Ericson 35 :- LWL 25' 10'

30 year old boat

1978 Bayfield 32 :- The Bowsprit giving it a classic outline - small inside, LWL 23'3"

31 year old boat

1973 Mariner 31 :- LWL 25' 6"

36 years old boat

The hull speeds are not much different to each other - what will be different and important is the area of sail that each can carry and also the type of keel which may determine the boat's ability to sail to windward.

This is the one that needs 1st and last look at :-

[jonneely]

So the 36 should be at the top of my list? how well will it do to weather (how bad will it pound because of the fin keel) and will I be limited on the storage space on the boat?

Thanks,

Jon

[Fred R]

All very good advice, Jon.

Listen to the input from these folks, lots of sea miles on this board....

My 2 cents....

Full keel.... slower but more stable, more stowage & more durable than a fin/bolt on keel.

Find something "younger"....

I repair boats and mid 70 hulls are heavy duty, however everything else has been stressed for 30 years.

It's a boat buyers market out here and the bucks you will have to spend, for guys like me, to bring a 70's boat to world cruising standards will be more than a newer boat....

Do the math, old boats may/can be a "budget buster..."

fred

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by Fred R

Do the math, old boats may/can be a "budget buster..."

Good advice!

[redbopeep]

Jon,

Hey--how about some info about yourself and your sailing background and wants/desires/needs? I asked this in my prior post.

While we can comment on how a particular boat will behave--google the owners' groups for each of the boats you are interested in. You'll find opinions about the boats from the perspective of the boat owners. Clearly they own these boats so they'll be a bit biased but even so--you'll get the real story on many topics.

Fred's point is true about getting "used" means "used" and depending on the age of the boat many systems may be ready to replaced or rebuilt. This is true for any boat that is not brand-spanking new, though.

In our case we looked at countless boats and found many limping along on systems that we had no idea how long they would last--and the owners were thinking all these systems were increasing the value of their vessel! So, at some point we realized that we should focus on boats that are either brand new, had been through a major overhaul in the last 5 years OR were so far gone that we would re-do the systems ourselves and be happy with our "custom" boat. In all cases, we were willing to pay the higher price of having new (or less than 5 year old) systems or putting them in new ourselves. That is not a cheap endeavor. Having a good rig, safe hull, working systems...all of it together very important.

We did note that many times one could find a boat that had been cruised heavily and thus had systems newer than the boat (e.g. 30-40 year old fiberglass boat with 10-15 year old systems) and often these were good deals, too. Each boat is unique and you'll have to review all systems as well as the hull and rig as you get into it.

[jonneely]

Thank you all for your responses! I have done more research and used the sail calculator. What I fell I have centered on is a yankee 30, one came up locally and it looks like a good investment. One thing that has come up is the tankage on the boat. now water is a thing that has been always on my mind when it comes to a cruiser, I have already gotten a 12v watermaker, but I dont want to rely on it in case of a an emergence(power stops on the boat). How much tankage should I have in a boat, the yankee is currently outrigger with 40 gal or water and 30 gal of fuel.

Any more input is great!

Thanks

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Jon,

Hey--how about some info about yourself and your sailing background and wants/desires/needs? I asked this in my prior post.

While we can comment on how a particular boat will behave--google the owners' groups for each of the boats you are interested in. You'll find opinions about the boats from the perspective of the boat owners. Clearly they own these boats so they'll be a bit biased but even so--you'll get the real story on many topics.

Fred's point is true about getting "used" means "used" and depending on the age of the boat many systems may be ready to replaced or rebuilt. This is true for any boat that is not brand-spanking new, though.

In our case we looked at countless boats and found many limping along on systems that we had no idea how long they would last--and the owners were thinking all these systems were increasing the value of their vessel! So, at some point we realized that we should focus on boats that are either brand new, had been through a major overhaul in the last 5 years OR were so far gone that we would re-do the systems ourselves and be happy with our "custom" boat. In all cases, we were willing to pay the higher price of having new (or less than 5 year old) systems or putting them in new ourselves. That is not a cheap endeavor. Having a good rig, safe hull, working systems...all of it together very important.

We did note that many times one could find a boat that had been cruised heavily and thus had systems newer than the boat (e.g. 30-40 year old fiberglass boat with 10-15 year old systems) and often these were good deals, too. Each boat is unique and you'll have to review all systems as well as the hull and rig as you get into it.

[MMNETSEA]

Hi Jon,

If this is the boat of interest Click Yankee 30 In the specs no mention of tank sizes, 40 gallons not too bad. If you are going coastal cruising - you will need dinghy and water jugs (cans).

Only comment , the gasoline engine may need replacing with a small diesel. Other than that from a scan of the photos it looks in fair shape for a 37 year old boat.

The site of the Yankee 30's Owners Association HERE

Richard

[TQA]

Originally Posted by jonneely

Hello all! I am currently planning a trip for a circumnavigation, going as far south as New Zealand and as far north as Southern NE Russia. I am currently looking at a few boats and would like to see what you guys and girls think of the options, the prices of all of these are quite similar so I am just looking for Ideas. This passage will be done with two people.

If you have not read this book you should Seraffyn's European Adventure By Linn and Larry Pardey

They also wrote this The Capable Cruiser.

Here is another idea Look for somewhere peoples dreams die and look for a properly prepared and well equiped STEEL boat possibly owned by someone who has lost his or her bottle or just run out of money or time.

Lots of suitable steel boats in Martinique or Canada Chatam and others in France build good strong hulls for home fit out. Not that pretty but very functional. Legions of chatams have circumnavigated . Here are a couple hint They are not advertised much on Yachtworld

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1982/Rober...9/Pictou/Canada

http://web-petitesannonces.fr/voilier-de-9...n-3-ref694.html

[JeanneP]

tankage. *SV Watermelon was 39', and when we crossed from Ecuador to Easter Island there were three on board, we sailed for 19 days. *We did not use all our 75 gallons of water or 44 gallons of diesel. *We did not deprive ourselves of water.

I had a salt water foot pump in the galley, all dishes were washed *and rinsed with salt water, then a final rinse with fresh water. *Bathing was also done with salt water, then a final rinse with fresh water to get rid of the salt on our skin. *

When it rained during the crossing, I quickly sudsed our clothes in salt water, rinsed the soap out with salt water, then hung the clothes on the lifelines for the rain to rinse out the salt. *"Our clothes" consisted of (3) t-shirts and bathing shorts. *Nothing that required a lot of water. *We would also dance around the cockpit sudsing ourselves!

In other words, with care and judicious use of salt water, and a 5-gallon jerry jug of water for emergency rationing, two people can go a long time on 40 gallons of water, and since it's a sailboat, one can arrive with most of the 30 gallons of fuel as well.

Fair winds,

J

[jonneely]

great, well that make me feel better, as for the atomic, it has already been replaced by a 2 cyl yanmar. I might just bump up the tankage to about 80 gal, I have heard you can fit a 30-40 gal tank under the front V. Thanks for the advice on the steel rigs, but they are out of m price range, plus the Y30 I found has a lot/ most of the cruising upgrades/fixes done already. New paint front bottom and side, new rigging, rebuilt yanmar, new tanks, new wiring, all led lights amongst new electronics. I will be looking at her on monday. we will also figure out then if 30 ft is too small, im just worried about my 6' 4'' hight getting in the way of a smaller boat.

[MMNETSEA]

Depending how much chain you have stored forward - the addition of some 300 odd pounds of water should be tested to see what it does to balance and waterline before it is installed.

The Boat will soon get used to your 6' 4" no probs. And eventually your brain will advise your head when to duck. I have found that every time I get on someone else's boat = gthud - ouch.

[JeanneP]

I strongly advise against your adding significant weight to either end of your boat. *You want weight to be relatively evenly distributed in the middle and lower part of the hull as possible. *Too much weight in the ends will cause the boat to hobbyhorse which is more than simply very uncomfortable. *Too much weight in the bow will make the boat tend to submarine in heavy seas.

sv Watermelon was a medium to light displacement boat, quick, nimble, and moderately tender with regard to weight distribution. *Our 75 gallons of water tankage were divided between a 50-gallon tank on the port side, 25-gallon tank on the starboard side. *When we set off on a crossing after filling all our tanks (fuel was on the centerline of the boat), a starboard tack was significantly more comfortable and faster, I'm sure due to the additional 200+ pounds of ballast on the starboard side. **

mv Watermelon is a light power catamaran. *Weight distribution is very important on her as well. *We improve speed and fuel efficiency by keeping the forward fuel tank as close to empty as possible, not always a practical idea if places to refuel are too far apart but well worth it if refueling is not an issue.

In general, even though boat design is always a compromise, there are usually trim and stability reasons for the dimensions and placement of its components, and changing them significantly can have unpleasant consequences.

[atavist]

I agree.... watch out for putting too much weight in any one place... no matter where it is.... I have 50 gallons of water forward, 50 port, 50 starboard, 50 gallons of fuel in the stern... that's by design... I added 300ft of chain forward (about 700lbs) and noticed the bow drop about an inch and while she doesn't exactly "submarine" I can definitely tell it changed her motion comfort ratings... so when I go offshore I either leave the front water tank empty (if i won't need it) or use it first (if I will) (if i were doing a big crossing I'd move all the chain to the bilges) ...

... oh, and I've given her a list.... my electrics are on one side, my calorifier (waterheater) on the other... I added all my tools to the port lazerette and she now has about an inch list to port.... I thought about splitting them between both sides but my lockers are so big it would make for too much of a headache to get at things so I'm just living with the list since it's not enough to really affect anything.

[SeaVenture]

Speaking of lists, Sea Venture was designed with 200+ gallon-tanks on both sides for water and diesel. A former owner noted that the black iron fuel tanks had rusted, so he converted one of the 200-gallon fiberglass water tanks to diesel. When we bought the boat, we thought of replacing the rusted things -- which Michael removed with much smoke and soot -- but the space lent itself so nicely to all sorts of other gadgets and tanks -- holding tank and Electra Scan, water heater, day tank, big (big) watermaker, etc. With a 40-gph watermaker, we didn't really need more than 200 gallons of water, did we? And we are a sailboat (though sometimes in the Sea of Cortez, we've doubted that when sailing meant drifting for days on end), so why would we need to motor (in windless conditions/flat seas, mind you) further than 1000+ miles without a fill up? We do have a 100 gallon pillow bladder which we could use if we realized we had to motor more than 1000 miles, but so far it was only filled for the delivery from Cabo to SF Bay.

Anyway, the listing takes place when we've filled the diesel tank and perhaps the holding tank (port side), not filled the day tank (starboard side) and are in-between water maker runs with a half-full water tank (starboard side), a condition that happened fairly often in the Magote near La Paz, as one would not want to make water there. Diesel is lighter than water (who would have thunk?), so the diminution of water has more effect.

[jonneely]

Hello everyone! Well, I just got back from a week and a half road trip looking at boats al over the west coast. Starting at santa cruz and going all the way to san diego! we looked at in total 19 different boat and got a ton of different information. We ended the trip on the 6th where Shannon and I took out the mason 43 and went on a beautiful day trip in the bay! So, now I have lots of cool/crazy/fun/mind-blowing ideas about these boats, we have gotten our eyes on three.

1st our favorite:

Twister 28, 1986 this boat is a beauty, small but well layed out and well taken care of. has everything already to go on a big trip. Full Keel boat, just reminds me of a mini mason.

2nd

S&S Houghes 38:

the biggest boat we looked at, also the oldest coming in at 1969, this boat needed some cosmetic work, but nothing too serious, had all the rigging redone in 08 including mast and chainplate, with new harken self tailing winches. NICE

3rd

Golden Gate 30 custom 1991

Another great looking boat, has tons of tankage 120 gal of water 40 gal of fuel, great shape, boat is also ready to sail, very stout and just a great looking cruiser.

now any opinions on these would be great, all the prices are quite similar, and we would be really happy with any on the three. One thing to mention is that all of them except the golden gate lacked a U shape galley. I couldnt stand in any of them, but Shannon could. The Houghes Need some TLC, and is not sail ready for at least two months of work until i would be comfortable. Out of al of the boats I really felt like a connection with the 28, we just seemed to fit on the boat, and be happy. But lets get serious here, these boats have nothing in them. once we have all of our crap ( not much, we will be taking very minimal clothing), food, guitar, 2 sets of dive gear, 4 person life raft, compressor, tackle, extra sails, wil there be room for the two people to stay on the 28, out of all the boats she did have the most bilge space, and she had a lot of storage under the v and aft bunk. Any thoughts are great!

Thanks,

Jon

[MMNETSEA]

Hughes 38 - what engine ? They did come out with an Atomic 4 Gasoline (petrol) engine.

Who built this one ? least favourite.

The Golden Gate 30 Custom built 1991

Who built this one ? Odyssey ? Where ?

SV Kiana did a circumnavigation

More expensive than your favourite

The English Twister 28 boat built by Tyler.

So its a toss up between the smallest boat and the newest at $7,500 more.

What is worth the money difference on the Golden Gate ?

[jonneely]

Well, the Golden gate is a Chuck Burns design. really the only thing I liked about the golden gate better than the twister is the headliner(Nice all teak) and the opening brass ports.

The Hughes has a Westerbeke diesel that you can eat off of, very nice.

to answer your question not much between the golden gat and Twister, whats you opinion on the size factor?

Jon