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Old 10-23-2008, 12:17 PM   #1
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The article says it all, really:


Note that the Bureau of Meteorology issued a gale warning for those waters at 4am today, with wind forecasts for 35+ knots. There is still a strong wind warning current, winds forecast 25-33 knots abating to 20/30 knots this evening. I'm not sure where these guys were headed, but it seems they were travelling north -- tomorrow they could have had quite a pleasant sail in 15-20 knot S/SW winds, seas still a bit high but offshore the swell would have lengthened (and the continental shelf drop-off is quite steep here).

= New South Wales, Queensland,
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:32 PM   #2
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Same applies here.

I feel that this story and the other regarding, the young lad should serve as a warning to all.

We live in a world where wealth and technology are leading a great many people to think that there are no limits to our horizons and dreams. We go to a boat show where a slick salesman will tell you that his 30 foot fibreglass toy will take you any where in the world. You do not have to worry about navigation as this $50 GPS is accurate to 6 inches and this $200 radio will tell you the weather anywhere on the planet and if you do get int trouble you only have to holler on this $50 radio and someone will drop out of the sky to pick you up and whisk you off to a 5 star hotel while the insurance company will pick up the tab.

I train new airline pilots and I see a large number of would be's that think they have a god given right to fly around in a large jet aircraft, when in reality they have no chance. The training industry, which is money driven keeps telling them that if they spend $100K they will be able to do it. Its the same with the boating industry.

The world is not fair nor is everyone equal. Some people are able to set off in small boats and deal whith whatever is thrown at them, however the majority are not.

I really should have no need to say this on this forum, but I think we should be very carefull when encouraging others to chase the dream.

As most of you already know it takes a wealth of knowledge and experience to pilot a small boat aroud the worlds oceans. You cannot learn to be a navigator just by doing a two week course, nor can you learn the 1001 things you need to know about sailing from an RYA 3 day course.

I think that companies who insure small boats for long distance cruising are crazy (just like NINJA mortgages) and I also think that maybe the emergency services should start charging the full cost of rescues to the rescued.

If people keep demanding rescue in ever increasing numbers then governments (and rightly so) will start to demand that our small boats are fully seaworthy in line with commercial shipping (an imposibility) and that we post a bond before we our allowed offshore in terratorial waters.

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Old 10-23-2008, 01:38 PM   #3
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The Heading to this topic "6 Stupid Sailors etccc " May not be accurate!

All the facts were not presented, The person responsible is the skipper ! If he left without checking what was out there - he was irresponsible. He put put the crews' lives in jeopardy and endangered the lives of rescuers. The heading "6 stupid sailors" is out of place
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:15 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
The Heading to this topic "6 Stupid Sailors etccc " May not be accurate!

All the facts were not presented, The person responsible is the skipper ! If he left without checking what was out there - he was irresponsible. He put put the crews' lives in jeopardy and endangered the lives of rescuers. The heading "6 stupid sailors" is out of place
Have to agree with MMNETSEA; the skipper is responsible, but if I am crewing I would check the vessel be comfortable with the skippers skill level, check the weather forecast myself and ask questions. So IMO the skipper is primarily at fault here but the other sailors should have taken some responsibility in checking the conditions, if I am not comfortable with the conditions I am not getting on anyone boat and am sure as hell not putting my life in jeopardy without thoroughly examining the situation. Bad weather does show up unannounced at times, however in this case is appears that there was plenty of fore warning.

I believe in instances of proven stupidity and or neglect that the skipper should be billed for the cost of the rescue, though this would be difficult to prove and would only provide additional income for the legal beagles.

I also believe that as a matter of course anyone that is rescued should have to spend time working with the rescue service being either actively involved with rescues or at least observing. I understand that it may be impracticle, but back when I was in South Africa we had NSRI (National Sea Rescue Institute) which was a volunteer organisation, they always needed people and funds, why not put the rescued to work for awhile.
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"Dwell on the could haves, we must not. Focus on the solution, we must...." -- Yoda --
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Old 10-23-2008, 03:21 PM   #5
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while I agree that "6 stupid sailors" is a bit much, I must commend the Australian news for printing something we almost never see here in the US, that a skipper's choice was stupid and that stupidity put others at risk.

For as long as we've been on the water, long before we started cruising, I've read "poor fellow" sympathetic news reports about some boater running his boat up on the rocks, as if the rocks were at fault! Or abandonding a boat that was taking on water without their ever even attempting to determine the cause of the ingress, let alone attempt to stop the water and save them AND their boat.

Or the fishermen who put their fishing boat on autopilot and then they all went to sleep, ran into a tug and tow, and all died. The father of one of the fishermen said "they must have been hauling their nets and didn't see the tug. They're very experienced and competent." Even after the reports that all the men were inside the cabin when it hit the tug's tow. In other words, somebody else's fault. They blamed everybody, even the Coast Guard whose rescue methods weren't good enough to save them.

I've had friends bring me "disaster at sea" "sinking yacht" "OMG, they almost died." news reports and ask for my reaction. It was never what they expected. I didn't try to justify our choices or explain the precautions we took. Most of the time my reaction was on the order of "they didn't even TRY to find the source of the water, they just abandoned the boat" or asking what the h*** were they doing out there? More questions about the problem than answering their unspoken question, "are you scared yet?"

Every so often I want to scream at the newscasters and print media for their lack of knowledge in reporting boating incidents and "disasters." I know it's futile, so instead I sometimes post a bit**y rant here.
In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

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Old 10-25-2008, 06:49 PM   #6
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Several years back, Arizona introduced the, " Stupid motorists law". It is meant to stop "stupid" people from trying to cross roads awash with water from flash flooding. They are now required to pay for thier own rescue. You wouldn't imagine how many "idiots" were caught on the news from a helicopter camera stranded in the middle of a "river" over the road with 3 feet of water moving at 20 knots or more! There they are, children and all, waving at the news helicopter to come and get them. They actually thought that thier BMW cound stand the forces of hundreds of tons of water...That's just STUPID. Some of those people probably own boats too. So stories like this don't surprise me and it's just a fact of life...Stupid people will always exist, maybe someday someone will make it illegal for stupid people to breed. Maybe that will help?

For the truth is that I already know as much about my fate as I need to know. The day will come when I will die. So the only matter of consequence before me is what I will do with my alloted time. I can remain on shore, paralyzed with fear, or I can raise my sails and dip and soar in the breeze.

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