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Old 10-11-2009, 02:22 AM   #21
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Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
Hello Fred,

Well, not sure how to answer the above quote, it has points which may have value - am still trying to digest "real internet hipster dispressing jerks"

Wonder why it has been difficult to answer the few questions that have been raised ?

Returning to the beginning; The Topic is opened :-

Sailing From New York City To California

No indication of which passage is planned eg N.W. Passage? or a passage via Northern Norway? or via Panama Canal or Cape Horn.

Planning to travel the world along coast lines.

Is this plan different from the Topic ?

Is a Visa required for every county I will sail offshore ?

This question was answered - yes, only when one goes ashore.

Are there any hostile countries like Russia near the Bearing Straits where a boat must stay a given number of miles away from the coast?

There are people in certain countries that pose a threat to cruising yachts - one example is Somalia.

What are the international coastal limits anyway? How may miles? This question was clearly answered.

You can't see the world if you are far out at sea. This is why coastal sailing is more interesting, my lad! True - however, not to forget that coastline seas consume the majority of ships that are lost, whatever size.

Fred, noted that you have a Morgan 26 called "Gene", was that a custom build? Would appreciate a photo. Those sailing lessons way back when with Jean Lacombe are to be treasured, He, along with Hasler and Chichester certainly pioneered small boat ocean passages.

Richard
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:13 AM   #22
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Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
???? You just quoted ME when making this statement???? I hope that was an accident. I clearly did not "approach you with suspicion" but rather asked you directly if this was something you were really planning to do OR if it was a dream. Easy question for you to answer. When one approaches something with suspicion--that implies there is something wrong, bad, harmful...etc...with the person or topic being approached with suspicion. I really don't care if you're really planning it or if it is a dream of yours. They are equal in my book. I'm fine with your topic either way-- but would prefer to know which way it is--real OR dream to continue the discussion. Then in reply to another person, in my next post I go on to talking about dreaming and how I enjoy discussion of voyages such as yours--even if they are dreams. Finally, I agree with yet another person that this kind of discussion is helpful even if the original poster wasn't serious about the trip.

Taking you seriously, I initially asked the following: 'You should have a wonderful trip should you decide to do it. What are your sailing experiences so far? Many people who plan to stay close to land do so because they're worried about lack of experience (offshore) or boat condition. Are these the issues for you? Perhaps you could pick up some time on someone else's boat to gain some offshore experience if that is an issue. Or, perhaps you might wish to open a topic about prepping your boat for the passage if this is an issue?"

Do you plan on answering my questions? Or just complaining? I suggest that you follow through with some reasonable answers to my questions and respond reasonably to some of the nice folks here who are trying to help you.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:42 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by fredwjensen View Post
Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
Taking you seriously? I took you very seriously and put a lot of effort into my replies re UNCLOS. But, as I stated earlier, it matters not to me if you were or were not serious as the answers to the questions will always benefit someone.

Regarding your dream since you were 14: that, I think, is magnificent. If we did not dream then no voyages of discovery would ever have been made. Hold fast with your dreams and, if possible, turn them into reality cautioned solely by the fine words from Seven Pillars of Wisdom, "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."

~ T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

Why not share your dream with us? New York to California would normally imply a cruise down the eastern seaboard, the Caribbean, Panama Canal and then up the west coast of Central America before fetching California. A lovely voyage with the possibility to visit many countries en route. Is this your dream or do you dream of more adventurous things? N.Y. to California via the North West Passage or even the North East Passage? N.Y. to California via the five southern ocean Capes (well, it would only be four in reality as you would skip Cape Horn unless you headed up the South Atlantic and through Panama) ?

Share your dream with us. We do want to know because each and every one of us here is a dreamer too. Were we not, we would but debating the merits of beekeeping or philately (not that I am knocking either). Tell us what you would like to do and we can provide you with a host of information because wherever you want to go there is bound to be a CruiserLog member who has already been there.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:55 AM   #24
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But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
How wrong! I admire the members that have taken the time and really made the effort to assist you on this thread - made no easier by your own lack of good "reply" and information to help those attempting to answer your questions.

I would say that some appreciation is due by you instead of the type of comment you posted above.

IMHO!
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:58 PM   #25
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I've yet to comment on this topic because it is one near and dear to my heart... not going from NY to CA, but in fact the idea of doing a coastal circumnavigation... as Fred said, staying close to land to more intimately experience the countries you are passing by. I agree this would take a lot of planning for visas in many countries cases but at the same time if undertaken with the right planning and mentallity could be done safely. For me this is mostly a dream, I think, but one I have devoted countless hours dwelling on... and who knows I'm still young enough that I may get a bug one day and set off...

While I agree there are endlass hazards in coastal waters, particularly the ones that are not well charted or highly variable, but the remedy to this in my mind is to have the right boat. My choice of vessel would be something along the lines of a sailing dory, or a bilge keeled version of George Buehler's Little Big Man, with an extreme shoal draft and strong enought o shunt a rock at slow speeds, if the weather looks even slightly nasty you tuck up a river or inlet and beach her and hide out till the weather is perfect again, in the case of strong currents the passage would just have to be planned to use them, not fight them... and as for pirates... most pirates I've met (while doing VBSS [visit, board, search, and seizue] in the indian ocean a few years ago) are just fisherman or farmers who see an easy target of value and take it, not cold blooded killers (though these do exist no doubt) ... if a person was in a boat of little to no value and appeared to have nothing of value most of them wouldn't give you a second glance, having a lateen rig might also help as you would better blend in with local fisherman in many of the dangerous areas...

just trying to keep the dream alive... feel free to pick my solutions to bits... It's all food for thought.
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:05 PM   #26
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... most pirates I've met (while doing VBSS [visit, board, search, and seizue] in the indian ocean a few years ago) are just fisherman or farmers who see an easy target of value and take it, not cold blooded killers .
With this I concur completely but there is a flaw. What is worthless for thee and me is, relatrively speaking, a fortune for someone else. A cooking pot is something you could give away rather than risk an argument never mind your life, but for a person with nothing at all in this world it may represent a fortune and is therefore worth killing for.

The thought of a coastal circumnavigation is attractive and , as you pointed out, under the right circumstances you can run for cover hiding behind an island, running up a river etc but there are many stretches of coastline in this world which offer little if any shelter. I used to live in Namibia and I can promise you that with just three exceptions, Walvis Bay, Luderitz and Elizabeth Bay (which you are not allowed to enter anyway) the Namibian coast offers no shelter at all. There are other similar coastlines such as Peru and northern Chile.

It is a nice idea but one which cannot be universally applied.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 10-11-2009, 04:45 PM   #27
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indeed.... areas like that add a specific element to the planning... the boat must be shoal enough to venture into shallow inlets but also hearty enough to undertake the longer passages required to leap around these unhospitable coasts.....

again the Little Big Man (http://georgebuehler.com/Little%20Big%20Man.html) with added bilge keels strikes me as a nominee.... heavy built enough to the limited offshore passages but still small and light enough to kedge off a landing.... or Devlin's Sooty Tern perhaps (http://www.devlinboat.com/sootytern.htm), again with bilge keels added and/or possibly converted to a swing keel... ....

As you might guess this is one of my favorite pass-times, just sitting around thinking about the best boat for different purposes, looking at plans and figuring out the mods that would be required to fit specific situations....

and I do agree on the value of items to other peoples the inherent risks in a trip like this.... which is why it will probably always remain a dream... but the dreaming is still fun.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:11 PM   #28
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I wholeheartidly agree. Dreaming and planning is more than half the voyage.

I am still a bit sceptic though when you have a coastline with no bays are harbours, such as the Skeleton Coast. There is no port of refuge, unpredicatable currents and on-shore winds. Even if you could run ashore there and survive the sea you would be unable to refloat as the sand is moving and carries wrecks a long way inland.

Interesting idea though and one which I too would like to examine more closely. In my days at sea, particularly in the merchant navy, I sailed past way too many interesting places.

Interesting boat the Little Big Man. If I was looking seriously at that design, I would want it in steel for the sake of strength.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:19 PM   #29
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David and I have dreamed heartily of coastal circumnavigation of the Americas--North and South. His dream includes the NW Passage and Cape Horn... mine doesn't. A compromise will have to be struck on that one, for sure

We are avid canoeists, so some of this dreaming began when we read a couple books which were inspiring to us--first one was Paddle to the Amazon

about a couple of guys who literally did that from New England on down. Well, among the books there was The Family Canoe Trip which entails a family of 5 (including a babe in diapers) paddling across Canada in a 20' canoe--tracked by Polar Bears and the like, their adventure was quite dangerous. We spend countless hours practicing our canoe surf landings on Baja in the 80's simply inspired by those paddle to the Amazon fellows. Let me tell ya, there's nothing easy about landing an open (river) canoe in big surf without swamping. We do now have the skill to do it--but with age, no longer the desire

A few other similar books and tales have made us realize that one can explore the world in almost any boat--no matter how big or small--just read David Hays My Old Man and the Sea about father and son sailing from CT down around Cape Horn and back in a 25' Vertue if you're thinking small...or Villiers Cruise of the Conrad if you want to know about using a big! boat for your world cruising...where there's a will there's a way.

Somewhere along the way, our love of sailing took over and we decided that we'd do our tripping via sailboat and then take adventure in a canoe here-and-there along the way. Thus, we have a flush deck boat that can store our 17' canoe without it being "in the way" of the actual sailing. It could be swept off deck during a passage...but that's another issue entirely.

Everyone's dream is different--and everyone's implementation of the dream even more so. Perhaps we'll see you somewhere along the way, Atavist.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:47 PM   #30
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Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
I think that I am the one you should be mad at, and I am sorry if your questions were sincere. I had just been on another web site that seems to have too many guys poking fun at us guys who hope to go cruising one day, and your comment about lawyers just fit in with what they were saying. I probably am a bit of an internet jerk.

Back to dreaming.

Jerry
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:55 PM   #31
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Canoes are indeed great things.... ever do any canoe sailing? That's another itch I have, to do some serious camp/canoe travelling... you obviously couldn't do a circumnav like this but the Amazon would be great....

for little big man... to my mind the problem with steel would be the weight.... if I was doing this I would want a boat light enough that I could kedge it of a beach totally dried up or haul it onto the beach with a stout tree and a bunch of blocks.... which may actually mean little big man is too big even in wood... which is what turns my eye to the sooty tern... a very light little boat.... lots of potential in both
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Old 10-12-2009, 01:19 AM   #32
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We've done a lot of wilderness canoing (paddle not sail) trips of a week to a month long up in the Quetico Provincial Park in Ontario Canada. We've also built a sailing rig for one of our canoes (we, at one point, had three canoes--a river canoe, a tripping canoe, and a flatwater racing canoe) and used it quite a bit. There's a class design and you can get plans for building what you need to be able to race in the class from the American Canoing Association.

Sailing a canoe can be very, very fast. Ours was lateen rigged with two leeboards and we used a paddle as a rudder at first, though later we added a rudder. On a run we could put up a rooster tail and had a stern wave so big that it could swamp the boat...you just had to pray that the wind would fall off before you had to gibe or hit shore one or the other.

Sailing a canoe would not be a good way to go tripping though, too wet! Regular paddling works just fine.
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:07 PM   #33
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Being completely new to this sport and having 2,000 flight hours but 0 sail boat hours, I want all of you to know that this kind of trip is what is attracting me to sailing. I want to see the world one port at a time and one of my trips is exactly what is described here. I'm at least three years away from even starting on something of this magnitude but all of you need to know that this adventure is a big piece of the appeal - at least it is for me. Once I get through my initial lessons and certification I will be back to reopen this topic and look for some serious counsel on how to do it safely. Is it possible to sail to Alaska? Would love to see that state as well and to get there in a sail boat would be magnificent. I know all about hostile countries as I am currently serving my last combat deployement in Iraq. Retirement and sailing next summer! Regards, John
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Old 10-17-2009, 03:49 PM   #34
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Good to hear from you John and the best of luck with your plans and dreams.

Alaska is very do-able by sailing yacht! Feel free to ask any questions you like. You are more than welcome to start planning and asking now. No need to wait until you get back home.

Stay safe

Aye // Stephen
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Old 11-03-2009, 07:52 PM   #35
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You will not need a visa for every country. When you check in you can purchase

all of the entry documents at Immigration Customs or at the Port Captain.

I have sailed this route, Key West to Los Angeles and will NEVER do this

again. The route from Panama north is the the worst. You will have to watch

the weather and have a very good depth gauge for the Bay ofTehuantepec.

Watch the weather pattern for the Central USA, very closely. Winds and sea

can be extreme. The sail along the Pacific side of Baja Calif can be rough

with wind on the nose for days. Some sail 400 miles off shore. I have not

done this. I have always sailed close hauled and bitten the bullet motoring.

There is only a small opportunity to sail. A good motor and large fuel capacity

is essential. Fuel is available at San Carlos and Ensenada. Once you are committed

t is hard to back out after about 3 days.

This is not a pleasure sail.

Why do you want to do this.

If you can ship your boat or hire a delivery crew do it.

The Eastern Pacific from the Canal to California is not for the faint of heart.

I have delivered boats from Puerto Vallarta to Marina del Rey, have been paid

and earned every dime of it.

Look for John Rains book "Cruising ports etc." read it, follow his directions.

At last thought " a sail like this does build character"
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:23 PM   #36
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Old 11-04-2009, 03:44 AM   #37
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Thanks all for a great topic, I learned more in 10 minutes of reading than I have in 3 months of reading books. New "hope to be" sailor here, currently 30 ft Cruisers powerboat that I spent every weekend of the summer (except 3) on the hook all weekend. I hopefully will pick up a small sailboat this spring and begin the on the water learning process, for now its all books and forums.

Tim
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