some advice please

[jnlgomes]

me and my wife are trying to purchase a boat in Venezuela. She is there doing the paper work. but there is some paper that is missing . she is afraid that if she cant get this paper that we will not be able to get the boat leagel anywhere. And from what is sounds like it could take months to go through all the processes there to get this paper. Apearantly there they have to have all the documents showing each person who has owned the boat from the time the boat was built but the owner cant find those documents he has his papers showing he has registered it in his name before and he will give a bill of sale and we can get it noterized. but what we are afraid of is that if we don't have this other document they wont stamp us out of Venezuela and we don't know if this will cause us problems going into another port or registering the boat. does anyone have any idea what we should do

[redbopeep]

There are some "holes" in your question that need to be filled before anyone can answer you.

1. What country is the boat presently registered in?
2. What country are you trying to register it in?

If the answer to both was the USA, and the boat is a USCG documented vessel, you'd just contact the USCG Documentation Center and get an abstract of title which will show if the boat is clear of liens and all.

You need to also know what the requirements of Venezuela are for taking a boat out of the country that was purchased there. If the boat is not registered in Venezuela and the requirements of Venezuela are difficult, it may be simpler for the previous owner to clear the country with the boat and then you take possession somewhere else.
So--answer 1 and 2, please.

[jnlgomes]

the boat is presantly registered in Venezuela.
We are not sure where we are going to register it. It would be easiest to leave it registered there . But I am American, my wife is Venezuelan, and we currently have residence cards for Portugal. you can see the problems we are haveing with Venezuela paper work, I know Everything in America is a paper work nightmare and So is Portugal. I don't know how the rules work as far as registering a boat any other place. But OUR plan is basically just live on the boat from now on so we will not have a residence anymore.

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by jnlgomes

I know Everything in America is a paper work nightmare and So is Portugal. I don't know how the rules work as far as registering a boat any other place. But OUR plan is basically just live on the boat from now on so we will not have a residence anymore.

Suggest you do your paperwork in Venesuela since it is already registered there. Your wife can do so--right?

I don't know why you think everything in America is a paperwork nightmare. It is a piece of cake, in most states, to get a boat registered even if there have been past title problems. USCG documentation is also easy and reasonably priced. The caveat is "If the boat paperwork has been kept in good order" (and that is a problem of prior boat owners NOT with the government where you're trying to register the boat), then you can get a recreational vessel USCG documented if all owners are American. In your case, that would preclude your wife owning the boat, so probably not a good plan. Here is some info on USCG Documentation:

USCG National Vessel Documentation Center, FAQ Page

Again, it sounds easiest to just register there in Venezuela since it is already registered there and your wife is from there.

You will have a country of residence--that will be the country which issues your passport. If you are a US citizen, then unless you naturalize to being a Venezuelan, you will end up keeping US passport--right?

Fair winds,

[StephLawyer]

jnlgomes, its very easy to register the boat under Panama Flag, it takes less than 24 hours considering it is a pleasure boat, NON COMMERCIAL. With this flag you can be of any nationality and the taxes are Low, you just have two pay each two year, if you are interested I can send you some quotations of some registries. I recommend you Panama, I can help you in all this procedure if you need assistance, also I have contacts in Venuezuela. Please be sure than when you are going to change the flag to delete the current flag in order to avoid further problems with the taxes.

Best regards,
Stephanie S.

[Auzzee]

Registering a commercial ship under a flag of convenience, such as that of Panama, has some benefits if you are a little low on scruples. You don't need to maintain the ship to accepted international standards and you can employ crew under industrial conditions which would bring a tear to Charles Dickens' eyes.

Registering a recreational yacht under the Panamanian flag is extremely expensive and, unlike most developed countries where one payment is all that is required, you will need to pay the initial fee ($1500 + or -) plus about $500 per year, every year you own the boat under Panama's flag. There are no crewing or maintenance benefits, no ongoing tax benefits, no diplomatic benefits, no economic benefits, some very good reasons for extraordinarily high insurance premiums...and, smaller vessels operating under flags of convenience are scrutinised heavily as they are officially suspected to be carrying out illegal activities, when visiting countries such as the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK.

Unless you are a Panamanian citizen, there is absolutely no benefit in registering your 40 foot pleasure yacht under the Panama flag.

So, sorry Stephanie, but to realise just how poorly regarded is the Panama registry, all you need to do is Google it, or look at the regime for registration in say, Australia and make a simple comparisson. The UN grades flags of convenience and Panama is not on the so-called 'white' list (the list of good guys).

To have full diplomatic protection, and merely to comply with accepted convention, there is nothing quite so worthwhile as 'doing-it-right' in the first place. There is no substitute in a recreational vessel, for registering under your own flag.

When registering in Panama, you simply do not get what you pay for and you can be sure that agents who broker your registration will want to charge a hefty up-front premium.

[haiqu]

From my reading of the original post, Venezuela requires a full paper trail and the current "owner" doesn't have it. I wouldn't touch this yacht with a barge pole.

Rob

[Auzzee]

Perhaps the wisest course of action is to speak with the Venezuelan authorities. If the boat has been continuosly registered in that country, the register will nominate all the previous owners and a simple statutory declaration from the vendor regarding missing paperwork should suffice.

I assume the missing paperwork covers the possibility that at some stage the boat was sold ex-officio and may still be subject to some form of lingering financial encumberance.

Unless you can get a guarantee of liability from the vendor, in case of any third party claim, I would agree with Bob (above). And I would also talk to the US Registry to see if the absence of the Venezuelan paperwork could prejudice the boat's eventual registration in the States.

[capta]

If, and only if, you can get all your ship's paperwork complete and legal in Venezuela should you even consider buying that boat. You will need proper documentation to enter the next country you sail to.
With proper papers you can register a sailing boat very easily and inexpensively in St. Lucia now, a really great "flag of convenience". No hassles at all.

[dubaisafari12]

Am also want so advice about Dhow Cruise Dubai? I want to read some specific thread on it ? Your tread is nice ?

[Auzzee]

You're starting to look like a desperate spammer trying to promote a specific region. Please post your question in Regional Cruising (Under the drop down menu above entitled 'Forums').
Other wise google the location..there is plenty of coverage of charters such as you say you wish to take. This is a cruising sailor's forum, and few people will have interest in charter holidays such as you appear to be promoting.
Good luck.