Varnish....or not

[Nausikaa]

Hi Folks,

I am a great believer in oiling wood rather than varnishing it as alows the wood to breathe but I have always varnished wood which is exposed to the weather. However I am in a little of a dilemma. The time has come for me to do some work on my wash boards.

Question, what do you folks consider best:

1. varnish, and if so one or two component varnish?

2. A mixture of terpentine and boiled linceed oil?

3. A patent concoction such as Owatrol?

Looking forward to reading your thoughts on this

Stephen

Yacht NAUSIKAA

[Auzzee]

This is as vexing, if not as important a subject as anchors. I do not want to varnish because of the difficulty in recoating. In my part of the world varnish cracks very quickly.

I have just coated the cockpit seats and combing, and the hatch surrounds (all teak) with an oil which I bought from the local hardware store. It is recommended for use on exterior, hardwood garden furniture.

It looks great, has the slight orange tinge of UV inhibitor, and I don't know how long it will last in equatorial climes...But it is easily recoatable.

I'll let you know how it holds up in the future....which is of little use to you for the moment, Stephen...Sorry.

[Swagman]

I think the common path is best.

If in tropics - oil it.

If in cold climates - varnish it.

If you prefer spending time on other things and not too worried about appearance - then use one of the proprietry protection coats.

Cheers

JOHN

[Francis]

We just went through an extensive varnish and oiling exercise. It is definitely too early to come up with any conclusion, however here is what we noticed.

Around november 2005 we varnished the cockpit, stern wood work and the aft toe rail using International 2 pack perfection for teak. 4 coats of International Perfection for Teak did not last a year. If I had read the litterature I would have found out that perfection for teak (great to absorb teak oil) is not so good for UV and needs to be recoated with plain perfection that absorb UV a lot better and gives a better gloss. That we need on the cockpit and indeed it worked out a lot better.

A year latter, we had to get on the hard to change out the depth transducer and took the opportunity to look at the woodwork.As we did not sand the wood properly,the overall aspect was not so great but the combination of perfection for teak and plain perfection held very nicely. So we decided to sand it all over again to get a nice clean substrate. Well, the sanding turn to be a major task. I used an Kress random orbital sander with grit 40 to remove the international varnish. A disc lastet about 20 minutes before getting dull, no loss of grit, just dull and very little varnish was removed. That led me to conclude that it was a very hard varnish, there was about 6 coats altogether. When we finally got the teak wood bare, nice and even, eventually getting down to 120 grit, we applied 8 coats of perfection for teak and another 6 coats of plain perfection, we hand sanded with 320 grit on average every 3 coats. The result is great but it has been only 2 months so way too early to conclude anything.

The teak roof coach, unprotected since laid some 7 years ago, we sanded using the same machine, got it nice, clean and even and used 6 coats of teak oil made by Ocean Pro. There was no breakdown on the cans so I do not know the content and have to assume linseed oil, some turpentine and whatever else. The stuff is made in Singapore. Again too early to say but the oil is not coming out in the sun, the Sikaflex caulking does not seem to be affected and it looks good although scratches can be seen easily, but the overall look is good.

The whole thing took us 2 months, 6 days a week, 2 people, so labor intensive is probably the right word, I hope to be able to get away with a light sanding on the varnish once a year with probably another 6 coats of plain perfection.

Let's post in anotht year from now !!!!

[atavist]

Francis - If you don't mind me asking, how much did your whole project cost? A detailed cost analysis would be greatly appreciated. I'm still disputing between wood and fiber. I love the idea and look of wood and time is not an issue... but money is.

[SeaVenture]

My sharpie has always been varnished. I did the West System/eight coats of varnish trick and then missed a summer. Oops. She's only in the water in summer in NC (and then undercover in our boathouse), but one little missed season and I had to completely redo her brightwork. I did not use varnish when I redid her last summer, but instead took a page from the performance of the sealant on our big boat.

Our ketch lived on the hard in San Carlos, Mexico, for five years. For the eighteen months prior to our purchase of her, no one had even been down to pat her on the back, and yet her brightwork looked surprisingly good. What had the owner used? Cetol.

To make up for some failures on their part, the San Carlos yard sanded down the exterior wood so that I was left with having to do something to seal it. In La Paz, I put on two coats of Cetol Light, which I knew would need replenishing (they call for three at least) by the time the boat got back to CA. It did, but took very little effort--just a light sand and another two coats. I was suppposed to put another coat on the next year, but you know how these things work...I got busy moving us onboard. So, it's been eighteen months since I've done anything to much of it, and though this isn't the tropics here in CA, I'm still impressed by how beautiful the Cetol looks. I know, it's not a purist's idea of perfection: there is a slight hue, but it may be that hue which helps block the UV. What I particularly like is that when it goes off, there's none of that flaking you get with varnish. Just a slight wearing away, which requires only a fine grit sandpaper and another application. I must say, it's quite fun when heads turn. So far, no one's turned up his nose at the look on our boat.

It's also quite fortunate that I like to maintain brightwork, as ours has an abundance.

Normandie

[Trim50]

Many of the professionals, including the guy that does my varnish, are using Interlux 2-part "Perfection" Linear Polyurethane.

The results are amazing with fast build and tough long lasting glass-like finish. Three coats lasts the entire season.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'

Originally posted by atavist

Francis - If you don't mind me asking, how much did your whole project cost? A detailed cost analysis would be greatly appreciated. I'm still disputing between wood and fiber. I love the idea and look of wood and time is not an issue... but money is.

Good point, we spent US$710 on sand paper, International Varnish and the appropriate (expensive) thinner (we use a lot more in the tropics), Sikaflex for various repair and some brushes. The varnish was quite expensive at US$50 per kit (2 packs.

[rwthomas1]

I use Cetol and my boat has minimal wood on the outside. The Cetol works pretty well and seems to last 2 seasons. While I think you guys with all the "brightwork" are slightly nuts, if you can keep up with it then it does look very nice. RT

[Auzzee]

I agree with you Rob, we are slightly nuts! The problem is that after buying a boat with timber gunwhale rails, hatches, combings, dorade boxes etc., one falls in love. I don't like maintaining brightwork, but I prefer it to covering the whole lot with a couple of coats of exterior gloss white.

And, what else is a bloke to do whilst enjoying a cold beer on a hot day?

David

[rwthomas1]

Originally Posted by name='Converted Post'

Originally posted by Auzzee

And, what else is a bloke to do whilst enjoying a cold beer on a hot day?

David

How about sitting in a deck chair and enjoying the "scenery" as it walks by....

RT

[Trim50]

After years of trying to perfect "The Art of Varnish", I finally decided to hire a professional. Within one season, I had the glass finish that I spent many years and thousands of dollars trying to achieve. Somethings are better left to the pros. Nonetheless, I think the 2-part linear polyurethane is a key element in getting the glossy-depth of a bristol varnish job.

[Nausikaa]

Thanks for all the replies but am I any the wiser? Probably not. What it boils down to, I think, is that there are as many opinions about this issue as there are skippers out there. And then you get folks like me who remain undecided.

Many years ago I built a crib in Swedish pine for my first child. As it is not poisonous, I chose boiled linceed oil and turpentine to protect the wood and the result was very good. (It has now survived three children and hopefully it will suvive grandchildren too). Since then, I have used the same mixture for Nausikaa's interior wood fittings (where I don't want to be binded by brightwork) but the exterior is a different matter.

I sailed on a few ships where we used Owatrol; a patented Norwegian solution which is easier to aply than varnish and looks very good but I have heard som negative feedback on Owatrol too. I must add though that my experience of Owatrol has only been positive.

And then there is the super gloss which blinds you in the sun but otherwise appears to be as deep and full of promise as the eyes of Brazilian girl.

I think the only thing we can all agree on is that brightwork looks a lot better than a dab of paint. So, what is a normal guy going to do then? I suppose I will just fall for those deep, dark eyes. After all, we are probably steered more by our emotions than by science.

Thanks for all the replies

Stephen

Yacht NAUSIKAA

[Jeremy]

Hi. BOILED linseed is always good and turps helps it to penetrate (but a product called Penetrol is kinder on the hands, wood and environment). The problem is the slow drying. This is solved by adding Terrabine, a paint-drying additive.

So: The recipe. Equal amounts of boiled linseed and turpentine, and 1 - 2% Terrabine for the initial 2 coats. Apply the mixture liberally with an old brush. For any later coat(s) less turps is needed. This will outlast any Polyurethanes, I reckon it looks far better, and there is no unsightly peeling in the future.

[Auzzee]

Hi Jeremy,

Penetrol is in my opinion one of those `must-haves` on any boat. I have not used it as a timber treatment on its own, but on your recommendation I will do a test strip to see how it holds up.

Cheers

David

[MMNETSEA]

Hi Folks,

I used to be the proud owner of a Nantucket 38 .

The figure 38 applied not only to the length of the boat in feet, but also to 38 acres of brightwork.

When I bought "Laid Back" , I spent weeks varnishing with the most expensive/excellent/longlasting varnish that money could buy.

18 months later I did a Marine Survey course with Wooden Boat School in Maine - New England. Saw many wooden boats - Also many wooden houses with wooden window frames , that appear to be varnished - however, I learnt that many were not varnished but were protected from the elements with a wood stain/preservative.

So on returning to my boat I found that the varnish that I had spent so much time and money on, was showing definite signs of fading/peeling. Well bite on the bullet - off to Mong Kok - buy paint stripper, sand paper, sanding machine and 5 litres of Cuprinol - check :-

http://www.cuprinol.co.uk/products/garden_...r_overview.html

Applied with cloth pad - less than a mornings work - thereafter, applied every spring - even though there was no sign of deterioration.

[Spike_dawg]

Wow! You guys really put a lot of effort into this. Francis...great post and amazing amount of work! I have no teak and now I'm really happy about it.

[Nausikaa]

Originally Posted by MMNETSEA

So on returning to my boat I found that the varnish that I had spent so much time and money on, was showing definite signs of fading/peeling. Well bite on the bullet - off to Mong Kok - buy paint stripper, sand paper, sanding machine and 5 litres of Cuprinol - check :-

http://www.cuprinol.co.uk/products/garden_...r_overview.html

Applied with cloth pad - less than a mornings work - thereafter, applied every spring - even though there was no sign of deterioration.

I am familiar with Cuprinol products. My father used one of their range many years ago to protect our garden fence. I can not say that just that product was suitable for brightwork as it gave the wood a greenish hue but it did seem to offer good protection.

I am interested to know how long have you been using Cuprinol and exactly which product have you used?

Many thanks for the info.

Stephen

yacht NAUSIKAA

[MMNETSEA]

Originally Posted by Nausikaa

I am familiar with Cuprinol products. My father used one of their range many years ago to protect our garden fence. I can not say that just that product was suitable for brightwork as it gave the wood a greenish hue but it did seem to offer good protection.

I am interested to know how long have you been using Cuprinol and exactly which product have you used?

Many thanks for the info.

Stephen

yacht NAUSIKAA

My Apologies, Stephen I have been using Cuprinol since 1997 - I used a product that was designed for house windows and external woodwork. The Link I sent you appeared to be for garden fences , decks etc.

The Colour I used was "Teak" - I will go to my local paint supplier and get updated info.

I cannot tell you how much it changed my life - It really worked here in the tropics

Richard