What To Do When Another Boatowner Damages Your Boat And Wıll Not Pay Up

[steelfan]

İ recently moored in Kalkan, Turkey and whilst İ was in town a Beneteau - about 38 foot - came in besıde my boat.

When İ got back, there was a paint scratch on my yachts quarter and the boardıng ladder attached to that quarter had been pushed back and slightly twısted. The Beneteau, name [name deleted], İsraeli flag, Reg No [edit], had a matching paint scratch and a bent stanchion at the same height as my ladder.

The owner, [name deleted] appears to be sailig with his son [name deleted] and a friend about [name deleted] age - 60. He said he was going on to Greece and then returnıng to İsrael via Syria. He told me that he had no intention of paying for the damage to my yacht because my ladder stuck out from the yacht,, ıgnored the fact that the yachts had touched as well, as the ladder and stanchion, and gave as an explanation that he was a solicıtor and a Jew.

The damage to my yacht is not sufficient to go to the trouble of suing an Israeli in Turkey, but still amounts to a few hundred pounds.

Have other people met such unpleasant yotties ? Should we start a blacklist ? What can one do ?

John Steelfan

ps I am not against any religion or nationality, but would be deeply ashamed if İ heard that any yottie did this sort of thing and claimed my nationality as a reason (British and Kiwi)

[Auzzee]

Unfortunately there are ratbags of every persuasion in every community, including our own cruising fraternity. The thing which irks me most is the threat you say he issued. He has probably travelled the world making similar threats to people he obviously regards as subordinates. His status as an Israeli solicitor/lawyer would carry little weight in Turkey or any other foreign country.

Here in my part of Oz, I know that a quick call to the Water Police would have immediate results. I don't know how the largely islamic state of Turkey's police would view such an altercation, but I imagine there would be some resultant form-filling routine which would give the protagonist the opportunity of repeating both his threat and his belief in his own superiority, to the local police.

I should think that would impress them mightily.

Otherwise, have a cold beer, cuddle your partner, eat a decent meal then whack a spud up his exhaust pipe whilst he is sleeping.

Cheers

David.

[Lighthouse]

Hi Steelfan

I have edited out the names, etc., in your above post. In my uneducated opinion I believe that the only way to attempt to get compensation for what you describe is to go the legal route. Or, if covered, report it to your insurance broker and make a claim - leave it to them to sue the other party.

Either way, it does no good to expose the "guilty" party on forums such as this as it both jeopadizes your possible claim and places the administrators of the forum in an invidious position for "publishing" such statements.

I trust that you understand our position on this issue.

However, what you have described annoys me intensely and I feel for you. Yachtsmen should have a moral obligation to make good any damages they cause, not adopt the attitude of "I am a citizen of some country on the other side of the world so TRY to sue me"



[EDIT ADDED]

Report the incident to the local Police as soon as you can anyway, and get a docket number.

Even if you parked diagonally in the berth it gives noboby the right to cause damage to your property.

[Gallivanters]

My Dad once told me "Kirk - you'l never get ahead by trying to get even."

Never-the-less, if this careless lawyer did this to my boat and took such a stance ... I'd be mighty tempted to sink his dinghy just because the dinghy "stuck out from the dock."

If Aye were in your deckshoes - I'd get the police involved.

What if this "captain" ran over a swimmer and claimed it's not his fault because the swimmer's head was sticking above the water? This guy's attitude makes us all look bad... and should be held accountable for his actions... and PIG-headed attitude. Who does he think he is?

To Life!

Kirk

[svjacaranda]

Hi John

What a bummer pisses me off just reading your post. Very sorry to hear of this problem

I am not sure what authority has jurisdiction over that anchorage in Turkey but we have run across buttheads like that before. Maybe that is not the right metaphor.... The folks that incurred damage always went to the port captain to file a complaint or to the authority that would give that yacht clearance. The port captain could seize the yachts papers and/or refuse clearance. Maybe there is no official clearance for yachts in the med so this would not matter. But in most cases the laws that apply to large vessels also apply to small ones.

Quite possibly the damage is not great enough to go that route but I would sure be tempted because the bastard will do it again that is almost for sure.

Do yachts in Turkey have to have insurance?

I would do the following

1. Take photos of both vessels and the damage?

2. Obtain written fist hand accounts from witnesses?

3. File a report with the local police

4. File a report with maritime authorities

Last resort

Come alongside with a 10' piece of chain and lock both vessels together until you get it resolved. Refusing to allow him to leave....... (ok ok maybe a dumb idea).

Please let us know of the outcome.

Good luck to you

Chuck

Jacaranda

[Gallivanters]

Punch him in the nose and tell him it was his own fault because it stuck out from his ugly face.

[Auzzee]

[MMNETSEA]

Originally Posted by svjacaranda

Hi John

I would do the following

2. Obtain written fist hand accounts from witnesses?

Chuck

Jacaranda

Chuck, I love the parapraxis in your second admonition as read with Kirk's advice.

Info , maybe out of context - friend sold boat in Corfu Greece ; buyer's check bounced - Port Kapitan arranged to stop boat leaving, while friend got a legal stay on the sale - glued to the mast.

Eventual good outcome.

Richard

[Pelagic]

I had exactly the same thing happen to me in Australia. Docksides Marina, Brisbane River (much larger damages) and the guy's insurance company refused to get involved because of the very high alcoholic level in his blood, even though he managed to convince the police to say it was just under. We had no choice but to sieze his yacht and take it to court.

This guy probably does not have insurance, as who would insure an Israeli yacht in the eastern Med, which is why; (no excuse) he took such an aggressive stand.

The first thing lawyers learn to do is to bluff. This guy knows he is legally and ethically responsible but wants to try and intimidate you into ignoring the damages, because they are not large.

Odds are that he has already skulked away, but if not, or for next time…. Bluff Back!

As other’s have said get everything documented and be seen talking to other neighbouring yachts who may have seen something.

Then politely let him know you are ready to proceed with filling a civil complaint and noting protest with the Port Authorities of a collision with another vessel underway, while you were tied up at a marina. Let him know you have witnesses and his small cost to settle this like gentlemen. Normally they will back down and reach an agreement.

If not, next step is to talk to the marina manager, who will probably act as an informal arbitrator.

Good luck and don't let it spoil your cruise.

[Nausikaa]

Originally Posted by svjacaranda

Last resort

Come alongside with a 10' piece of chain and lock both vessels together until you get it resolved. Refusing to allow him to leave....... (ok ok maybe a dumb idea).

I would advise NOT advise you do this as you may well bs charged with unlawful dispossession.

I do hope though that the issue is resolved to your satisfaction and can only recommend you to take the issue to the Turkish authorities. Turkey, as you probably already know, is trying to join the EU and is therefore cleaning up its act, particularly within the field of the judiciary. You may be surprised and find the system quite effective.

The fact that the guy is a lawyer in Israel will cut no ice in Turkey nor will the fact that he is Jewish.

Aye

Stephen

[Weyalan]

My advice, based on limited experience, is to at least make it look like you are going to be taking him "all the way". When you know he can see you, take a bunch of digital photographs, both of the damage to your boat, and the area of his boat that you think did the damage. Make a point of being seen talking to the harbour master, and if possible to the local police. There is certainly no harm in making a formal report to the local police; they may not actually do anything, but it won't hurt and it may help your case.

At worst, all of this will achieve nothing, but (i) it may scare him into taking the easiest option and paying you some cash recompense, or (ii) it may be that the photos and a police report, along with his details and his boat's details might be sufficient to hand the matter over to your insurance company (assuming you have one) to let them pursue the matter for you.

[Trim50]

I'm with the Admiral on this one...Punch in the nose.

If that opportunity doesn't present itself, you can probably get a few hundred dollars for his prop

[imagine2frolic]

I was anchored in the Abacos, and a 40ft powerboat came in, and dropped his anchor nearly on top of mine. He let out a wee bit of chain never setting the anchor, and then dropped his dinghy into the water. I went outside, and asked if he planned on leaving his boat there? His answer was the RUDEST remark I could think of. Then the wind starting moving his vessel around as he motored off in the dink.

I let out some more chain, and then got out the video camera. While filming how close he was coming to me. His wife, and daughter came out, and started using the same language on me. I started filming them, and then they got realy nasty mouthed. WHAT I REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS BE IN MY DINGHY WITH OAR IN HAND WHEN HE RETURNED. Of course common sense prevailed, and in less than an hour he was back, and gone. As already said where ever we go there will always be people like this in every crowd. Sorry to say the days are gone where a knuckle sandwhich would suffice, and the authorities would think he deserved it.

[Aquaria]

...and for the case that the damage is too small to make a big fuzz out of, but too big to ignore, I always carry a small box of nice little bent or broken cotter pins with me. And in an unseen moment I throw one of these nice little broken pins on the deck of this unfriendly sailor... and maybe you see him rushing up and down his mast, checking all connections in his rigging. And too bad, he cannot find where it is missing...

Uwe

SY AQUARIA

[Nausikaa]

Brilliant Uwe!

I must remember that one.

Aye // Stephen

[Seeratlas]

I'll assume he's long gone now, but if it happens again,

take your digital, take lots of photos, get recorded statements, names, contact details of witnesses,

go straight to the port captain.

The Turks have a huge investment in yacht tourism, and are a rightfully proud people. I suspect the Port authorities will not look kindly on someone causing mayhem in their waters, and if you can ever get a lawyer to threaten anyone with the fact of being a lawyer...1. he's not much of a lawyer to start with, and 2. he's got a real uphill job trying to convince someone he's innocent.

If you are insured, call your insurer and get them copies of everything you have including CLEAR, CONCISE, WRITTEN, SIGNED statements of exactly what you and any witness saw heard etc. Request the Port Captain to demand proof of insurance from the other guy (a lot of countries require it, even if they don't, few would refuse to show the Port Captain upon request.) Anyway, send all that stuff to your insurer along with estimates of repair, not just one, get two or three. Its entirely possible that they may contact his insurer and prosecute the claim. This last you could still do. Nothing prevents you or your insurer from making a demand directly to HIS insurer... Oh, and the Israeli's *generally* keep a close eye on who owns what boat and last I knew, THEY required insurance.

Very few yacht insurance companies of note are stictly single national, so unlikely they would just try to stonewall you behind Israel's borders.

seer