Justice

[MMNETSEA]

Verdict and sentence delivered :-

Here

[Nausikaa]

One down - just the Gulf of Aden pirates left to go!

I have my reservations about the death penalty in general but there seems to be absolutely no doubt about Deleon's culpability

Aye // Stephen

[imagine2frolic]

My thought is if you don't give them the death sentence. Then you have to promise to never let them on the street again. It is a different kind of death sentence.

[Istioploos]

I am opposed to to capital punishment but ...

[Trim50]

Wife and I talked about this at length and both agreed that they should take the guy out on a boat, tie him off to a length of chain, drop an anchor in the water at 4000 ft depth which is attached to say 500 ft of chain spooled-up on the deck of the boat. This way he will be sitting there watching the chain run-out for a couple minutes. And just as the final feet are about to yank him overboard, he will realize that the chain he is attached to is not attached to the anchor. This way he will experience the horror of the situation but will have to live the rest of his life in prison thinking about it.

[JeanneP]

Originally Posted by Trim50

tie him off to a length of chain, drop an anchor in the water at 4000 ft depth which is attached to say 500 ft of chain ......just as the final feet are about to yank him overboard, he will realize that the chain he is attached to is not attached to the anchor. This way he will experience the horror of the situation but will have to live the rest of his life in prison thinking about it.

I like that, but we can be pretty sure that in our society it would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

[Trim50]

Yes, ...unfortunately so. Lori finds this case very upsetting...especially since it happened so close by.

[gslabbert5119]

Originally Posted by Trim50

Tie him off to a length of chain, drop an anchor in the into the water ...

People like this have little compassion so why show any compassion and I doubt these kinds of people would think about such stuff, but I may be incorrect.

I am for the death penalty but I think that it is too quick. For I would march the bastard into the death chamber setup 7 needles, 1 with a slow functioning lethal serum and then have him choose one of the syringes each day and have him experience the fear of death over and over each day for a week or until he selects the one that will kill him. This way he may just face a little of the fear that those poor folks experienced knowing that they were going to die.

Sorry but when you murder someone you give up your rights.

Plus that is a waste of a good anchor and chain ...

[fusion40]

Originally Posted by gslabbert5119

People like this have little compassion so why show any compassion and I doubt these kinds of people would think about such stuff, but I may be incorrect.

I am for the death penalty but I think that it is too quick. For I would march the bastard into the death chamber setup 7 needles, 1 with a slow functioning lethal serum and then have him choose one of the syringes each day and have him experience the fear of death over and over each day for a week or until he selects the one that will kill him. This way he may just face a little of the fear that those poor folks experienced knowing that they were going to die.

Sorry but when you murder someone you give up your rights.

Plus that is a waste of a good anchor and chain ...

There is NO excuse for taking human life, jail forever is a much harsher penalty than a quick death !

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by fusion40

There is NO excuse for taking human life, jail forever is a much harsher penalty than a quick death !

I agree completely...either an Arizona chain gang or Siberian labor camp...none of these California day spa pansy prisons.

I'd be willing to donate the chain and anchor for such a purpose.

[Nausikaa]

Originally Posted by gslabbert5119

I am for the death penalty................

Sorry but when you murder someone you give up your rights.

Problem is that sometimes the wrong person is accused and found guilty. If the death penalty is then imposed there is no going back and no way the state can make ammends to the poor guy. Compensation paid for years spent wrongly imprissoned is never adequate but it is a whole lot better than an irreversable execution.

IMHO, it is better that 100 murderers are incarcerated for life than one innocent man is sentanced to death.

Aye // Stephen

[Peter Owen]

Maybe, just maybe, we should be offering those found guilty the ancient Greek option of drinking hemlock.

In these more sensitized times, of course, nitrogen narcosis would apparently be a pretty painless, dare I say, pleasant, way to go!

Maybe too painless for some but ....

.... see ya!

[Nausikaa]

I am certain that hemlock is available to those in prison who want it. The process of osmosis in prisons is far faster than in boats and so quantities of any drug known to science and a few which may not be seem to effortlessly pass through prison walls.

I don't think that the majority of murderers and rapists have the courage or the decency to take the "gentleman's" way out.

Aye // Stephen

[imagine2frolic]

COWARDS?,

These people are such cowards that work scares them. That's why they choose a predatory lifestyle. DEATH, or in one cell with an hour of excercise alone for the rest of your life. Problem with keeping them alive we as taxpayers carry the burden of supporting this POS.

One year to get a retrial. You come up with nothing new. A walk down the aisle to a tiled room, and fifty cents of lead to fix the problem.

[Istioploos]

Originally Posted by Nausikaa

Problem is that sometimes the wrong person is accused and found guilty. If the death penalty is then imposed there is no going back and no way the state can make ammends to the poor guy. Compensation paid for years spent wrongly imprissoned is never adequate but it is a whole lot better than an irreversable execution.

IMHO, it is better that 100 murderers are incarcerated for life than one innocent man is sentanced to death.

Aye // Stephen

I fully agree with Stephen. The crime was hideous in this case but overall our emotional response to it should not make us ignore the biggest picture. Life imprisonment, with no frills, is indeed a much worse punishment and is more reversible in case of judicial error.

[seaescape]

Originally Posted by Istioploos

I fully agree with Stephen. The crime was hideous in this case but overall our emotional response to it should not make us ignore the biggest picture. Life imprisonment, with no frills, is indeed a much worse punishment and is more reversible in case of judicial error.

In oz here there is no such thing as a no frills prison. They all have nice bed, colour tv, plenty of room and three meals a day. For me I'd rather see the murderer or drug trafficer or anyone that is 100% guilty without a doubt put to death there is just no way these people should continue to burden law abiding people for the rest of their lifes. How many times do we see murderers, rapists, child molelesterers do their 10 or 15 years only to be let out and do the same thing within days of release.

Here in oz if a dog bites you its taken away never to be seen again.

My opinion only sorry to those that won't agree.

Kevin

[Nausikaa]

Originally Posted by seaescape

I'd rather see the murderer or drug trafficer or anyone that is 100% guilty without a doubt put to death .......................

Kevin

Of course, if there is doubt the guy should not have been convicted in the first place. Unfortunately, as history has shown us, not all who have been convicted have been guilty.

Aye // Stephen

[Peter Owen]

It's strange but, in the UK, life does not necessarily mean life anymore and the vast majority of criminals here do not serve anything like the term to which they are sentenced - sometimes with disastrous results.

As ever, we are talking balance but I do suspect that western society has somehow developed something of a biased take on the sanctity of human life far removed from our natural, intuitive response.

I, too, am sensitive and, therefore, susceptible, to the arguments about the finality of the death sentence where there is doubt but, on balance and accepting the risks, I am inclined to support it - and, frankly, for a lot more than straightforward(!) pre-meditated murder.

It's all very well talking about the sanctity of human life where criminals are concerned but the problem is that we have forgotten about the lives of otherwise upstanding citizens by increasingly alienating a huge part of our society from the realities of this concept.

Re-instatement of the death penally for the most heinous of crimes is one social statement that needs to be made to redress this balance - along, of course, with, if you want to live within and enjoy the fruits of a "civilised" society, then you'd better be prepared to conform to its norms.

In this regard, my point about self-administered hemlock was more about ridding us once and for all of those who do not deserve our sympathy by offering them an easy way out of no frills approach to incarceration. The suggestion that nitrogen narcosis was an effective and strangely pleasant way to achieve this end was offered only as an encouragement to those who might otherwise be prepared to sit around watching TV for the rest of their miserable lives.

OK, OK, I accept that there are innocents who would chose the option but we're now down into the 0.01% of bugger all so ....

[Nausikaa]

Originally Posted by Peter Owen

..................

As ever, we are talking balance but I do suspect that western society has somehow developed something of a biased take on the sanctity of human life far removed from our natural, intuitive response.

I, too, am sensitive and, therefore, susceptible, to the arguments about the finality of the death sentence where there is doubt but, on balance and accepting the risks, I am inclined to support it - and, frankly, for a lot more than straightforward(!) pre-meditated murder.

It's all very well talking about the sanctity of human life where criminals are concerned but the problem is that we have forgotten about the lives of otherwise upstanding citizens by increasingly alienating a huge part of our society from the realities of this concept. .............

You are absolutely right when you state that our take on human life is far removed from our natural, intuitive response. That is what sets us apart from lower forms of life as well as societies which value life cheaply. Having said that, I too would like to see convicted murderers swing provided that there is an absolute guarantee that no innocent man would go the same way but that guarantee cannot be given.

I agree that our society tends to show more compation for the criminal than the offer of the crime. This, to some extent, is a result of the judicial system whereby guilt has to be proven beyond reasonable doubt - although misscarriages of justice do occur. It also makes good economic sense to "care" for the convicted criminal and try to get him back on the right track. For lesser crimes, I am in favour of such an attempt at rehabillitation - but only one chance. If the criminal continues offending he should be sent to a harsh penal institution. For major crimes, such as murder, rape, child abuse etc. there should be no second chance at all.

The UK has a history of establishing penal settlements. It should be re-invoked. Remove the serious offenders from society by sending them to St. Kilda or, better still, to Gough Island. These people must be seperated from society as harsh prison sentences are not effective. In Sweden, where I come from, our criminal sanctions are far milder than those of the UK or the US and our prisons almost luxurious but, despite having a much smaller percentage of the population incarcerated, the crime rates are lower. Thus, one can deduce that harsh sentences are not effective. Of course this is an oversimplification as other issues, such as the social acceptance of criminal activities, also play a role here.

Aye // Stephen

[gslabbert5119]

Originally Posted by Nausikaa

Of course, if there is doubt the guy should not have been convicted in the first place. Unfortunately, as history has shown us, not all who have been convicted have been guilty.

Aye // Stephen

The inverse applies as well, not all that are guilty have been convicted, 3 examples, they had to go after Al Capone on tax evasion as they could not prove him guilty of murder and there is no doubt that he executed many a person, and the infamous OJ Simpson who is guilty beyond any shadow of a doubt, they had to wait for him to get stupid (or should I say more stupid) and then throw the book at him for a lesser crime. Lastly there was Dimitri Tsafendas who walked up to Hendrik Verwoed who was the Prime minister of South Africa at the time and stabbed him to death in full view of some unkown number palimentarians. Why keep him alive and without going all religious but there is a well followed book that states "An eye for an eye"

The legal system is not infallible, and I am not pro senseless executions, however if there is no doubt whatsoever then lop off his head and put our tax dollars to better use.

Punishment of the guilty was used as a deterrent to crime, and worked pretty well as the punishment was usually so severe that only a few were prepared to commit crime. As we have become more civilised we have taken the teeth out of the penalties.

My quote for the day "If you cant do the time then dont do the crime"