Adding to anti fouling -----

[Trim50]

Has anyone been able to get feedback on this experiment? Did it ever actually take place?

I'm haul'n out on Friday to paint the bottom.

[southpacific]

i used TBT in Hempel with moderate results in ecuador, at 1oz per gallon of paint, the growth factor after 2 yrs sailing and 8 months static were terrible..Soooooo Ive since redone this and used a litre of the stuff in 20 litres paint on my most recent pull out. I now await the future. Il let you know

[Lighthouse]

Bedouin - where are you?

We're all waiting anxiously for news of this experiment.

[Bedouin]

Well finally I have results on the adding of a 50-50 mix of curry powder and mustard powder that I applied to one side of 'Camel Dung'; my tender. The other side was done with the same brand of anti fouling from the same can so there is no way that a different result can be claimed to anything but the adding of the powder. The result was VERY NOTICABLE. I've since hauled Bedouin out, one of the reasons was to anti foul, among a few other chores.

I have added a coffe mug of Curry powder(the hottest I could buy) and likewise of Mustard powder to a 10 litre pail of anti fouling. Cost was under $15A for the powders. The paint required about the usuall time of mixing but some of the powder was 'lumpy' and needed to be reduced to its powder form before adding to the anti fouling. Application was by roller with a first coat of straight anti fouling of a different brand then three heavy coats with the 'added to' anti fouling and an extra to pressure areas; bow area, stern, rudder, etc. I did apply primer first and am happy with the result so far in as much as the anti fouling changed colour when put back into the water as it is supposed to do. Bedouin has only been back in the water about 4 weeks but a dive over the side showed a very clean hull in an area that does have a reputation for perriwinkles.

Anyone wanting more info can email me direct (bedouin AT hotkey.net.au) Was it worth spending the $15; well the $15 is a grain of sand on the beach when there is over $500 worth of anti fouling on.

Regardfs

Peter

[Lew on Harmony]

I am also very interested in your results. I have heard that you can add copper powder to the paint to increase the antifouling properties. Anyone had experience with this?

Lew

A buddy put cayenne peppers in his International TBT bottom paint (the ugly pink color one) eight to ten years ago and the bottom still looks good. This is in the tropics and the boat hasn't budged off the mooring more then once over that time. I don't recall him ever mentioning touching the bottom for a scrub and certainly never saw him in the water messing with it. Nine coats of paint is what I recall him saying he put on. No idea what his pepper ratio was, but he swore by it.

We used the exact same paint without the peppers in 2005, and it does work good, but I had to hand-wipe a little slime off now and then.

You could find TBT in Kuching, Malaysia, Borneo in 2005/2006.

- J

[daytrader]

Originally Posted by Auzzee

I feel that R & D laboratories must be aware of the claims made by cruising sailors and would be quick to test urban legends, especially if the 'improved' brew requires only the addition of a readily available organic substance to render it substantially more potent.

David

The R and D labs have done the work. You boaters are no differant then the aero space folks. One guy with a small plane can not GET the good paints that are needed for a plane, BUT the large jumbo jets seem to be able to fly more hours and at speeds 3 times as fast and the paint lasts 5 times as long.

I own a recent USAF C-21A (Lear jet 35A). It is a nice jet. I am not bragging, but I like it and am very proud. To paint that plane with normal paint cost me 7 grand. To get a boot leg paint job cost me 21k. Guess what paint my plane has on it. That 21k gives me the best of the best. The space shuttle dosn't even have this quality of paint YET! It will.

If the 500 ton boats can get it, then you can get it. You just have to open up that dusty pocket book and get it. Heck, I am sure for the right price some can walk off and onto your boat.

Some times you have to get down to the low levels of life to get the best stuff. When we installed the by pass oil system on this boat. We were told how dumb it is and such.

The funny thing. My plane with million dollar engines go 500 hours with out a oil chage with such sump type filters.

My trucks all have them and DO NOT GET OIL CHANGES. Yet, these boat folks that seem to know it all. HAVE NO CLUE. When I told the guys at Cat that I will not be changing the oil in my Boat they were kinda shocked. ONCE I POINTED OUT it is their own system they would be installing. They were still kinda shcoked.

You boat folks get screwed. On paint, lube and maintance. I keep my oil guy very close. I have him on speed dial. I would think you may want to keep you paint guy close.

If any one needs good oil. Let me know. This guy is good. He tells it like it is. He is with a company that was making lubricants BEFORE petrolium was discovered.

[daytrader]

Also do not knock somthing as simple as adding pepper spice to some paint. Just because it sounds simple and easy, DOSN'T mean it will not work.

When we got this boat we were told it was only getting 1.8 miles per gallon. After six hundred bucks she dose fine at 2.6 miles per gallon wide open. Both 3208 cats running hard.

I am supprised many sail boaters have not adapted to air tabs off of planes. I mean this would seem like a simple must have item on a sail boat. They are put on jets for a reason. The same reason sail boats should have them.

[Auzzee]

Welcome back Daytrader.

Good to see you managed to get your boat into the water at last. How did you make out with the docking lines and fenders?

Just a word of caution about your economy. Miles per gallon is a term which means nothing in a boat. If you are going with wind and tide, you may get 3 miles per gallon; going against wind and tide that figure may well drop to half a mile per two gallons. The only language marine economists know is gallons per hour worked out in conjuction with your engine hour meter and running your boat in typical conditions over a prolonged period of time.

If your mechanic is talking miles per gallon, I would think it very strange indeed.

On additives to anti fouling: We are concerned with what works in paints which are very expensive. We are hoping to get positive feedback from yachtsmen who have done the experiments so that we don't repeat mistakes or destroy expensive bottom jobs. Broad speculative statements are of little practical use.

Just a brief environmental note on antifouling paints. 500+ tonners which use very potent anti fouling are generally not moored in creeks and tributaries. A large number of small yachts with highly potent anti fouling which do moor in those areas, could cause great damage to populations of juvenile creatures in what are the planet's marine nurseries. For instance, Tri Butyl Tin is still used in antifouling for big ships, but it's effects on oyster beds in close proximity to moored recreational craft went very close to destroying an oyster industry in Australia's New South Wales, before its use for small boats was banned.

Cheers

David.

[daytrader]

One thing I know NOTHING about is anti fouling. I really do not. I do not have the experiance many of you do. I was just adding a paint side to the effect.

yes, we got her and are having a great time. We are 12 miles out now and have been for the last 2 days. We will motor in tomarrow as we will fly out to get back to work for Monday.

While I understand many of the terms and measures you may use in sailing. MANY OF THEM ARE WRONG.

You are right with MPG nad KPG not being real indicaters of fuel comsumption. Hours is even a worse measure. Captains logs are more to my liking.

Air bumps or tabs are very common on air planes. They ware out and cause the craft to be unstrable and can effect fuel to a 50% increase per hour. They ware down from the high wind draft and speeds.

By pass oil filtration has been around a very long time. Just it gets almost no cause as buying oil is a very profitable sense.

Many folks do not know. Most oil dosn't ware out. It gets dirty.

[daytrader]

http://www.airtab.com/

These are like the air bumps we have but they are much larger. The ones on our plane are small and screw on at 220 each. I do not see why somthing like this would not work on a sail boat well. It is such a simple thing that most think is snake oil.

The first thing any Air Frame tech checks when a pilot complains about tail swish or bad handling is the air bumbs or air tabs.

Like most things. Folks will look at it and think how it may work. Most will never try anything new. Ince the guy next door dose it. Then they will give it a try.

[daytrader]

http://oilpursys.com/ This is the system we had installed on the boat. We run it on all our trucks and are very happy with it.

http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/ These folks have been around a long time and the Navy uses them in some forms.

I just do not like the filter replacment cost and the fact that adding 2.5 gallons of oil every filter change is like changing the oil every 5 times.

http://www.schaefferoil.com/ This is the ONLY oil I will use. I have for a long time and it has been great. Every engine and turbine I have owned has been well lubbed with this.

Anyone looking to give it a try. Let me give you my sells reps number as he is a great down home country boy. I GET NOTHING out of it, but know he will service you well.

[daytrader]

Breaux Brothers Enterprises, Inc.

Breaux Brothers Enterprises, Inc. in New Iberia Louisiana has been building offshore workboats for over 20 years. Many of their 3.5 million dollar boats have been specified with Gulf Coast Filters.

[Auzzee]

Now I'm totally confused!

Which of the terms that sailors, over lifetimes, have determined to be the best and most suited to their purpose are wrong? How do you propose to use the Captain's log to determine economy?

What most cruising sailors do, is log the fuel used, log the amount of hours the engine has been running, divide one by the other, then log the result. Over time and by consulting the log a pattern develops which allows the skipper to predict the amount of fuel he will need, to motor for a given number of hours.

When he is then motoring, he can determine his speed over ground for the prevailing conditions and thus calculate what his forecast position will be for the consumption of a given amount of fuel.

Considering the variables, such as set and drift, and sea state, it appears to me there is no way of more effectively determining fuel consumption.

Hope you catch lots of fish.

Cheers

David

[Yidaki]

Hi Daytrader, I'm not much of a techo geek, but I'm super impressed that you can surf the internet and make lengthy posts here, from 12 miles offshore. What sort of gear are you using to connect to the internet from out there?

We are drifting off the topic here somewhat. With respect to the original poster of this topic (a very interesting topic indeed) please start a new topic with a new topic title if a post is not directly related to the thread. Please do not "hijack" someone else's topic title. The "irrelevent" posts are lost anyway if visitors are not interested to read the particular topic TITLE'S content.

In order to keep the threads as orderly as possible.

[daytrader]

Originally Posted by Auzzee

Now I'm totally confused!

Which of the terms that sailors, over lifetimes, have determined to be the best and most suited to their purpose are wrong? How do you propose to use the Captain's log to determine economy?

What most cruising sailors do, is log the fuel used, log the amount of hours the engine has been running, divide one by the other, then log the result. Over time and by consulting the log a pattern develops which allows the skipper to predict the amount of fuel he will need, to motor for a given number of hours.

When he is then motoring, he can determine his speed over ground for the prevailing conditions and thus calculate what his forecast position will be for the consumption of a given amount of fuel.

Considering the variables, such as set and drift, and sea state, it appears to me there is no way of more effectively determining fuel consumption.

Hope you catch lots of fish.

Cheers

David

That seems to be the way I range fuel as well. Maybe sailers do it the same. I may have been wrong. Hour usage is down and out at I burn the same amount of fuel at idle as I do flying 500 MPH. The captains log shows ALL pounds of fuel put on and all maintance. There is an area to figure hour usage and milage. NOT knots. Conditions for the trip are noted to help give feed back. So heavy wind or cast will add to fuel burn rates. I would think they are the same in the water.

[daytrader]

Originally Posted by Yidaki

Hi Daytrader, I'm not much of a techo geek, but I'm super impressed that you can surf the internet and make lengthy posts here, from 12 miles offshore. What sort of gear are you using to connect to the internet from out there?

We use a Garmin WIFI 2280 card in the lap top with a Sprint card for inland use.

At 12 miles out we still have Sprint service. It is spotty. The cell phones do not work, but the wirless card dose.

I guess I better be nice. I do not mean to Hijack a person post, but how are you to answer questions other wise?

Got time get you Ham Lic askme how... KC9CFX here

[Bedouin]

I don't follow daytrader in his point that you have to hijack a thread to answer a question when it has nothing to do with the thread anyhow!! The thread was started about adding to anti fouling paint; the administrator took the time to point this out when it got waylayed to oils, jet engines, fuel consumpsion rates and other such; sadly his point was ignored.

Hopefully those that wish to discuss ideas will start their own threads and not have them interfered with.

On a positive note Bedouin has now been back in the water about 10 weeks with still nothing so much as sediment on the hull but a healthy growth of periwinkles on the prop which I cleaned and left unpainted. I figure it has been a very worthwhile experiment and that it has worked with little extra cost which if it lasts the life of the paint will more than be justified.

Regards

Peter

[Lighthouse]

@Bedouin

Thank you for the update - please keep us informed.

I am very happy that this thread is back on TOPIC.