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Old 08-19-2013, 05:55 AM   #21
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I was watching a youtube video of some people crossing the Atlantic and at one point they started up the engine and started motoring. I thought it was stupid because most sailing boats only carry enough diesel to get in and out of harbors but the wind had changed and they were headed right into the wind. Now if they were not sailing a bus with sails and had a boat that could point into the wind this was a good time to tack and in the middle of the Atlantic you could do long tacks.
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:02 PM   #22
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@reefhunter - thank you for your pm! Here are some numbers of weight:
Original engine (Volvo MD2b 25hp 2zyl about 230 kg / 507 lbs
extra starter battery 30 kg / 66 lbs
total weigt for old system: about 260 Kg / 547 lbs

Electric engine 32 kg / 70 lbs
100ah GEL-Heavy duty batteries 30 kg / 66 lbs

6 of these 180 kg / 396 lbs
total weight electric engine and batteries: 212 Kg / 466 lbs

and not to forget the little new HONDA-Generator 12 Kg / 26 lbs.

After removing the old, rather heavy engine it was important to put back the same amount of weight at the same place not to spoil the over all trim. Therefor the new batteries had to sit there where the old engine was.

Uwe
So, the weight is -81lbs - I would have thought less, but then you need to reduce the size of the fuel tanks too. You won't need as large of tankage, if you are going mol electric.

My design boat has twin 3.9L Cummins, B Series - non electronic which weigh 400kg each + 300L tanks each side. If I was to replace with a smaller, lighter weight Cummins and 100L tanks - I could conceivably cut the weight down by 100kg which would make a BIG difference. Somewhere down the line, I'd like to build a cat with NG engines and tanks. A 100# cyl holds 24gal of LP or CNG
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Old 08-19-2013, 02:07 PM   #23
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It appears to me that the same people who put electric motors in boats own a VW Micro bus, have an apple computer, do yoga and eat nuts and berry's. Real men want diesel engines and I love the smell of diesel fuel in the morning it smells like masculine.
No, just trying to save a few thousand a week on fuel. When we were in Panama the cost to fuel the boat was $5000. In Venezuela it was $800. If I was able to legally operate in Venezuela I would do so - if for nothing else the cheap fuel. But we are not able to do so - so we're in Trinidad for the time being. We do have Apple computers, Ipods and Ipads, don't do Yoga or eat nuts and berries.
I too love the smell of diesel fuel and detest gasoline!
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Old 08-19-2013, 04:22 PM   #24
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I was doing a spoof on Lt. Col. William "Bill" Kilgore by Robert Duvall in "Apocalypse Now"
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." That is a good movie. Actually I think napalm has a diesel fuel aroma.

Years ago I did go to sea in an electric boat but it was a submarine and it had diesel's too big ones.
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:13 PM   #25
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I was doing a spoof on Lt. Col. William "Bill" Kilgore by Robert Duvall in "Apocalypse Now"
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." That is a good movie. Actually I think napalm has a diesel fuel aroma.

Years ago I did go to sea in an electric boat but it was a submarine and it had diesel's too big ones.
Napalm is benzene and polystyrene - not gasoil.

In the old days they used dual two stroke General Motors/Detroit Diesel V71-series engines - each fitted with two superchargers (one for each six cylinders) to pump the output to 425 hp for each engine. These diesels provide the twist to charge the giant 126-cell batteries used to power dual 825hp electric propulsion motors.

Boomers don't have that problem - they have reactors.
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:44 PM   #26
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The electric boat has the same limited range problem as the electric car. When the wind is about to blow you on to the rocks the diesel engine will sound sweet.
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Old 08-19-2013, 07:49 PM   #27
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Never said I would abandon the diesel. I just wanted to see what alternatives there were. I'd rather depend on a wind generator than solar. But some people seem to think that solar is the cats meow - you can't convince them otherwise. In a head-to-head, my wind gen can recharge the batteries in six hours - it takes the solar panels 18+. The only place you have 18+ hrs of the sun is at the top and bottom of the world.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #28
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Napalm is benzene and polystyrene - not gasoil.

In the old days they used dual two stroke General Motors/Detroit Diesel V71-series engines - each fitted with two superchargers (one for each six cylinders) to pump the output to 425 hp for each engine. These diesels provide the twist to charge the giant 126-cell batteries used to power dual 825hp electric propulsion motors.

Boomers don't have that problem - they have reactors.
The boat I was on had Fairbanks Morris ten cylinder opposed. Most of the engine men on boats with GM diesels had transfers in to transfer to a boat with FM diesels. The problem was when we were in port the the engine men on the GM boats had to stay aboard and work on the engines and the engine men on the FM boats went ashore.

NapalmTM (A) is a compound (formerly) made by Dow Chemical formed of aluminum naphthenate and aluminum palmitate, and the slurry of those two chemicals was the jelling ingredient that you added to gasoline to create the jellied incendiary known as napalm.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:49 PM   #29
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They stopped using the A sometime in the late 70's. The B is what is currently used - benzene & poly styr.

FM engines are really old. The GM's were the replacements the last one built in 1968. That one was the AGSS-555 which was decomm in 2006.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:17 PM   #30
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FM engines are old but good. No valves no heads top speed is about 800 RPM. There are many still running. The M/V SALVAGE CHIEF sitting in Astoria has two of them. The US Navy put them on everything. Fairbanks-Morse Model 38D8-⅛ 10-cylinder opposed piston diesel engines.

The 38 8-1/8 has been in continuous production since its development in 1938, and is currently manufactured by Fairbanks-Morse Engine of Beloit, Wisconsin.

The Salvage Chief is the boat Andy Devine put together to pull ships off the beach. The Pacific Northwest used to be called the graveyard of the pacific. But now with GPS navigation ships don't run aground as often. The Salvage Chief is has been sitting in Astoria for over a year with out a job.
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Old 08-26-2013, 09:05 PM   #31
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It appears to me that the same people who put electric motors in boats own a VW Micro bus, have an apple computer, do yoga and eat nuts and berry's. Real men want diesel engines and I love the smell of diesel fuel in the morning it smells like masculine.
... seems as if you know me! I had a VW Micro bus with a DIESEL engine, converted in to a camper, travelled all over Europe, am eating nuts and berries and love muesli, am against nuclear power and use the bike whenever possible. And I don't like the smell of diesel and engine fumes - it smells too masculine... Instead I have solar panels, a wind gen and the prop shaft generator and they all generate so many amps that at the end of the sailing day the batteries are fully charged and the beer in the fridge is really cold. And to have a really cold beer at the and of a good SAILING day and after you have SAILED your boat alle the way to its berth in the marina or to the mooring buoy (hardly anybody notices that you use the electric engine to do the necessary corrections after lowering sails befor finally tying up) - that is masculine!

I like to sail even under light wind conditions when the masculine start their motor sailing under spinnaker or start their six engins instead of tacking against headwinds.

I learnt sailing on little centerboarders, my first two boats did not have any engins - too expensive, but nevertheless I sailed tidal waters.

Just now we have sailed almost 1000 miles on the not easy tidal waters of the English and French Channel coastline in the last one and a half months under way we and used only ONE gallon of petrol and most of it for the dinghi-outboard to get ashore in the river estuaries of Corwall.
On just one occasion we used the inverter to run unter hybrid configuration because we wanted to be sure to have full battery banks on the next day.

No question, you really have to work the tides and pass the headlands at the right time. We didn't miss the engine that pressed us around Portland Bill against the tide with a speed of six knots - no, we put out the anchor and waited for the turn of the tide. This is real sailing!

Maybe BIG sailboats have the engines and diesel capacities to motor across the Atlantic against headwinds. All others alter course and find more favourable wind further south and practice good weather navigation.

And the wind that might blow you on the rocks might be just perfect to get you away from these rocks. Of course, your boat has to be able to sail to windward even under gale conditions. If you and your boat cannot do that, you should not be out there. NEVER rely on your engine in such situations!

Uwe
SY Aquaria
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Old 09-24-2013, 03:11 PM   #32
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Uwe, thank you very much for your good reply ( better late than never has never rang so true Yrs sincerely, Joe
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