Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Bosun's Locker > Other Equipment
Cruiser Wiki Click Here to Login

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-16-2007, 10:36 PM   #21
Lieutenant
 
Pelagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 41
Default

I think you just hit upon the reason why a lot of sailors are stingy about putting out more chain

Have never seen any spurling system that would lay out the chain for you. I would think that they would be prone to jamming when running the chain out. Best is a wide slippery tray that you can use a stick to push it from side to side when it comes in.

I always put out too much anchor rode which probably comes from my years on a steam yacht where it could take up to 8 hours for the engine to be on standby.

When hauling anchor on my own, it is a 2 stage part where the chain is shortened up to about 2 x scope and laid in the locker to fill any holes along the edges. Then that last bit is brought up without my need to flake it out.
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2007, 10:44 PM   #22
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
Does the Ideal Windlass Company advise what part of the windlass is the major source of the heat that is being generated ?

It could be that compressed air alone will not reach that source. The gearing will take some time to cool down anyway - while the electric motor being enclosed would not be affected by the compressed air.
Hi, nope.

The company simply said "200' at a time, then a cool down period would be needed for the motor." It was the motor that was the issue and its the largest (both physically and power wise) motor that the case can handle. The gearbox most likely dissipates heat through the case (making matters worse for the motor...) and wasn't raised by them as an issue when I was talking with Ideal.

But the cool-down logic from my hubby (an electrical engineer who is used to "pushing" motors harder than I'd like...) is that the current through windings (wire) heats up the wire when working the motor very hard. When you push a motor (hand tool, any electric motor...) it gets hot because of those wires heating up. If you are able to blow compressed air across the wires (in the case of the windlass this would mean running a compressed air line to the case probably through the same holes in the bottom of the case that the wires enter and exit...and assuming the airflow can come in and out of those holes fairly effectively (heating up below-decks for sure) then, we can successful cool the motor so that it can run cooler and longer. We have a nice 150 psi compressor onboard anyway for the hookah (used when cleaning the hull) so its not a big deal to use compressed air if we must.

We've done this before when pushing tools to do more than they were supposed to do. I'm not suggesting that we'd habitually "push" the windlass, but instead, we like to have a solution to help us if we end up needing all that anchor scope and needing to pull it in faster than 200' at a time and "waiting" for a little cool down period for the motor.
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2007, 11:42 PM   #23
Lieutenant
 
Pelagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 41
Default

Hi Redbopeep,

Found this quite interesting as I anchor all the time in deep water and have never worried about overheating or saw any reason to. (Until this thread now!)

I have a Lofrans Titan B windlass similar design to yours w/ 24v large motor. The heavy gearing is all in a 140 wt gear oil bath and I can't see that getting worrisomely hot.

The boat is 26 years old, just 2 years for me though and a 65ft schooner. Anchor windlass is the original.

Last month I just pulled the motor for my first time to check the brushes and windings. Normal wear, no signs or smell of overheating. Before this, when operating in a deep pick up I have felt the feed wires to the windlass and they were warm but not hot.

I'm surprised that some systems need to use compressed air for cooling. Usually I am only operating for a few minutes at a time, before having to straighten the anchor locker or stop to wash off the mud, so perhaps that's why.slow and easy!
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 06:13 AM   #24
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

Hey, all, I tried to answer the question about the motor heating, but somehow...the response didn't make it through. So, here we go again:

No, Ideal didn't say anything exact source of heat but stated it was the motor that would require the cool down period. Deduction is that the motor is the heat problem not the gears, but could be wrong...From what we know about electric motors and pushing them too hard, the windings/wires do get hot. Compressed air is something we've successfully used to cool down motors on both hand and power tools when pushing things a bit much. We have a good compressor onboard our smaller boat that will move to the cruising boat when we get her back in the water (we use it for tools and for the hookah we use when cleaning the hull) so it wouldn't be difficult to run an air line up into the windlass case (up via the same through deck holes that the power lines go in) and get the air directly to the motor for cooling (though below decks would get hotter since the air would exit below deck, too). The gears certainly should get hot but one would expect the gears to be dissipating heat via the case, only making things worse on the motor. We'll see if this works once the boat is back in the water. Else, we'll be looking at adding an electric motor to that manual windlass that I posted earlier. We have the most powerful motor (and its physically large) that this case can handle, so we'd have to go to a different windlass if this won't get us more than 200' at a time.

Other stuff:

My photo shows a great capstan that is larger and nicer than the one that sits atop our Ideal Windlass (but works the same, of course). Instead of two gypsies, ours is set up with a horizonal capstan on one side and a chain gypsy on the other side. Also, we'd have to fork over something like $2700 to get the pretty, shiny case in stainless steel. Our case is regular steel and painted. It is a maintenance issue to keep the steel case rust-free and if we keep this particular windlass, we will likely have another case fabricated locally or fork over the $2700 for the Ideal Windlass company case.

Pelagic is one of the few folks that we've met in person or online who "agree" with having as much chain as we do. With our 600 ft, I'm feeling like a light weight compared to Pelagic's 2 x 630 ft. Holy cow. I'm worried about the hobby-horse effect that having 600 ft of chain + anchor so far forward will cause the boat (the ground tackle+windlass are very far forward at more than 2000# in all and the counterbalance is about 2300# of fuel under the cockpit seating area.) I cannot imagine doubling that forward weight. But, even if I could imagine it, we simply don't have the room to carry twice the anchor chain It takes a really big locker as it is. That is why we'll end up having a spool on deck for the second anchor's rope rode.

Pelagic, I'm scratching my head about how to deploy those two anchors as you suggest to get the additional scope. Can you explain (give me baby steps if you must) further? Someone else has suggested to us that we shackle our chain in the middle and use the bitter end of our chain for a second anchor--thus we'd be running with 300' on each anchor, but have the ability to put out the full 600' if needed. So, this is the second time I've heard something similar.

It sounds like you've been working with some very hefty windlasses in the past--have they been electric? And, were they 24 or 36 V?

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 06:19 AM   #25
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
Default

OK, I see there was a page 2 to this topic! DA....sorry for saying the same thing twice and Pelagic has already answered my 24/32 volt question... Thanks!
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 09:30 AM   #26
Lieutenant
 
Pelagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 41
Default

Hi Redbopeep! Thanks for the welcome. Did try to answer your personal message, which I hope you got, as I dont see any record in my sent box. Did that answer your anchor question?
__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 04:15 PM   #27
Ensign
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 34
Default

We started out cruising with a manual windlass. Geez just about killed me! I use to joke that I couldn't eat breakfast before we hauled up the anchor if we were in over 35ft of water. With 180-190 feet out I was ready to chunder by the time I got it all in. Even years later I still smirk to myself with my big toe on the button!

Points to ponder for choosing an electric or hydraulic windlass

1. Almost always you will have your engine on when moving and hauling in the chain so power is not a concern

2. In emergency situations when you have to clear out NOW an electric windlass allows you pull the anchor up without any physical energy. Ok pushing the button! Much better to focus what is happening at the moment without being exhausted gulping for air.

3. Allows you to reanchor anytime you are uncomfortable. Having to manually haul in all the chain many times you might stay put. Comment posted earlier above I agree with.

4. Dual use of the windlass you can have someone hoist you to the top of the mast easily and quickly.

5. The windlass should be big enough to haul at least 2x the weight of your chain and anchor. We almost always pull ourselves forward when retrieving the chain. Remember if you get stuck on a reef having the additional power may just save your vessel.

6. Our windlass is not as fast as some but we have never had a problem with it since we installed it. We have 300' of 3/8 BBB and a 20kg anchor

We have had excellent luck using Lighthouse brand model 1501 windlasses. The motor is NOT a starter motor used in many of the windlasses. This design has NEVER needed a cool down time.

http://www.lighthouse-mfg-usa.com/

We have to flake our chain because our chain locker is so shallow. 39' boat 28' water line = small chain locker. But we recently saw an excellent idea for chain lockers that are slightly larger and a self-flaker system.

Our friends took an old aluminum dive tank. Removed and plugged the valve hole. Cut off the top 14-18"inches of the tank and mounted this directly below the hawse pipe. (Length is dependent on depth of chain locker) As the chain came in it would get pushed to the side allowing for more chain. They said it worked very well and were happy with it.

Last just a comment

Use of a snubber is almost always a good idea. Getting the load off the windlass and allowing stretch

helps.

We use a second short piece of line tied around the chain and looped back over the windlass just in case the snubber should break. We had friends loose their boat in Fiji when a 180-degree wind shift put them on a lee shore. A fierce squall caused the snubber burst and all the weight of the pitching boat pulled the remainder of the chain off the windlass. They went up on a reef and the boat was a total loss. The use of a second line many folks will laugh at thinking its over kill but it only takes a moment to put on along with the snubber and if we never need it then it will not hurt anything

Good luck in your choice. I agree with most everyone that using an electric or nonmanual windlass is a good idea and you will be happy especially when you anchor in a deep anchorage.

Kind regards

Chuck

Jacaranda

www.jacarandajourney.com
__________________
svjacaranda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2007, 05:05 PM   #28
Admiral
 
Trim50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
Send a message via Yahoo to Trim50
Default

Great link! I like that lighthouse windlass a lot!
__________________
[
Trim50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2007, 02:29 PM   #29
Ensign
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9
Default

thumbs up for an electric windlass, it can get you out of a dangerous anchorage much quicker (perhaps saving the boat and more) particularly if short handed. You can revert to the manual method using warp back to a primary winch if the electrics fail
__________________
oldsurfie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2007, 05:18 PM   #30
Rear Admiral
 
imagine2frolic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
Default

I have 2 Maxwells behind my staysail. One on each side for seperate lockers, and seperate anchors. A 55lb Delta, and a 66lb Bruce knockoff, Claw. The builder of the boat was working both anchors with one windlass. One in front of the net, and one behind the net inline. I seperated the 2, and put both anchors on the front crossbeam.

I also have 20 foot of cable on both controls, so I can walk up onto the bows, or crossbeam to watch the anchor settle, or be lifted. My wife will give the boat a bump forward, and then I lift a short distance, and then let the chain pull me forward. After a couple of lifts the boat will actually pick up speed, and I can steadily lift the chain.

If I am picking up more than 100ft of chain. I will have to reach into the locker, and give the chain a nudge to fall off of itself. So far I have not had a problem deploying, or retreiving the chain. I almost always put out 10/1 scope. I feel better when we leave the boat, or a squall passes over while taking a nap.

I use the bridle to bury the anchor, and a snubber as a backup to the bridle for whatever reason of failure. Nothing like getting a second chance in life, or sailing........LOLOLOL

As I posted before I use colored plastic ties, and have the lengths marked on the inside of each chain locker hatch. I always open the hatch, so I can keep an eye on the chain as it leaves, or comes back to the boat.
__________________
imagine2frolic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2008, 04:25 AM   #31
Ensign
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 27
Default

REDBOPEEP,

That is a big jump from the 30ft Rawson manual windlass to the anchor gear you have now. Good big anchor gear is good insurance that lets one get a restful sleep.

Phyllis and I spent 4 years mothering Sea Urchin dive boats from Vancouver Island to Alaska from September to July. Our wooden packer built in 1919 of 50 tons had to have good anchoring gear to survive the winter storms. It had a Hydraulically driven drum winch with 80 fathoms of 9/16 cable. It worked every time. As you know, electricity and salt water do not like each other. Hydraulics has many advantages, especially in the size of winch you have. You can stall it out many times with no ill effects, it is self cooling with the long run of hoses so can be run continuously and runs at a variable speed depending on load and operator control.

APOLIMA has a SL Francis 2000 windlass installed when launched. The British electric motor has been fried by some stupid clot. The motor is being rewound as there is no local (LA) replacement, but I will convert it to hydraulic in the near future.

I believe all windlass' should have a manual backup feature.

Aside(Saw a 30ft powerboat come into Hotsprings Cove, Alaska, walk out to the bow, lower the tiny anchor hand-over-hand until it touched and tied it off. As we left we watched him row over to the springs.)

Good sailing

Gary
__________________

__________________
Gary

"I feel younger while afloat in my boat."

http//HealthyBoating.blogspot.com
Apolima is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aluminum 55 Ft. Sailing Yacht For Sale Meta Cruiser's Market 0 06-16-2010 08:26 AM
Australian Sailing Yacht Looking For Crew sailingstorm Cruising Crew Wanted 12 12-03-2009 07:41 AM
Chartering Sailing Yacht In Tortola sailhunter32 Regional Discussions 1 02-08-2009 09:51 PM
Sailing yacht run down by a freighter. Lighthouse Overdue & Distress Reports 21 02-18-2008 12:33 PM
Boat Fenders For A Sailing Yacht Auzzee General Cruising Forum 10 09-17-2007 05:55 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
×