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johnar 10-16-2007 04:44 PM

Hello All, My name is John 44 single and this is my first post and have so many questions. I will give as much information as I can right off so you all understand what I have in mind, please forgive the long post.

Living on a boat and traveling has been a life long dream and I am about in the best possible position to make this dream come true. I have already taken steps to make this come true by selling off everything Home,Harley and 19' ski boat and by moving in with my sister and her husband (thank god for family) I have been able to pay off every bill I had and living now debt free. Not a lot left over now.

One of the best things in my favor is the fact that after a 3+ year legal battle over a workers comp injury the case is coming to a close and I will soon receive a nice sum of money to buy/refit a used boat. So that you understand I am disabled from the injury which was a fall at work and will have a monthly income from SSD on top of the settlement. Even with my back injury i still feel i can handle a boat and live a very nice life.

As for experience in sailing Blue water or Coastal I have none the only experience I do have sailing was on a lake on a 34' boat and that was so limited and long ago it is best to just say I am new.

Now to the Dream, I would like to find a Boat between 30' and 45' that I could sail and live. From what I am told from my Blood sucker (lawyer) that I will receive around $100,000 and have a monthly income around $1,500 a month the rest of my life.

With all that in mind I have come to believe I can spend $40,000 on the boat and another $20,000 for refit/repair. I know this is not a lot of money when it comes to a live-aboard Cruiser but after looking on Yachtworld I believe it can be done with an older boat from the 1970's.

What I would like to do is start out by asking:

1. is this a realistic dream?

2. advice on finding the boat.

3. when to start looking for the boat.

4. advice that I just can not think of to ask for of hand. lol

I have read a number of hours and have found some of the first things to think about are:

1. How many people will live on the boat, I will live alone or if I get lucky and meet the lady of my dreams to have her with me. I believe a boat in this size range will be fine.

2. Where you plan to sail. I would like to Cruise, never see another winter. I plan to start off in the Great Lakes and live the first summer there and move down to Florida for the first winter maybe sooner depending on the boat condition and refit time.

There a few boats that I have found that I believe would fit my needs, Huns Christian (maybe out of price range) Westsail and Tartan. To me they are well built boats and fall under the Heavy Displacement Class for Blue water.

Where I am very lucky is that I am very handy and can fix about anything with a little research.

I do know that with any used boat a servey must be done but it would be nice to know as much as i can before hand before i have a servey done on every boat i like. This could be very costly.

I think that should do it for now. I hope to make some friends here and learn from the people that post. Thank you all. John

imagine2frolic 10-16-2007 05:40 PM

One never knows what life will bring to them. You need to be capable of some very physical stuff on boats. It is rare, but at time you really need to grunt.

$1,500.00 is a good income for a medium size boat, and yourself. There are always repairs, and you will need to learn to do as much as you can. If not then $1,500.00 will seem like chump change. I am not trying to discourage you at all.

If you have some skills such as computers, mechanic, electronics, or even sewing then you could always enhance your income along the way.

First thing I would do is try to get some time on other people's boats. Figure out if this is really what you want, or just a DREAM! It happens now, and then when someone is faced with the reality, and the boat is quickly sold. I myself find cruising the most satisfactory accomplishment in my life. Good luck in your quest, you will find many knowledgable people here to interact with.........John

Auzzee 10-16-2007 10:35 PM

Hi John, any injury which is sufficiently serious to cause you to receive compensation for a lifetime, has the potential to become even more debilitating if aggravated. My concern surrounds the sort of gymnastics which are necessary when initially refitting, then maintaining a 'fixer-upper'.

With a budget of $40K, you can certainly find a boat which can be turned back into a cabable cruiser, but the effort of doing so, could compound your injuries and leave you in an even worse position. Being upside down, inside out and hanging by your fingernails in your engine room, in a lumpy seaway....or turning yourself into a Mack truck on the cusp of an accidental gybe...especially if you have a back injury...or having to clamber up the mast to address any one of half a dozen problems aloft could prove disasterous.

Not knowing the nature of your injury means I can only speculate on its consequences, but good health must be protected, even more so if we are considering a life afloat, away from immediate health support options.

A friend with a back injury from a fall at work manages and lives aboard a 42' yacht with his wife. He copes very well and occasionally they sail offshore. His major discomforts have been caused by suddenly bracing during unpredictable wave movements whilst he was down below cooking...and, getting into and out of his dinghy both from the boat and in mild surf at the shoreline.

This has not dampened their enthusiasm, nor altered their plans for extended coastal voyaging. To lessen the impact of heavy stress on his back (and to modify a bigger boat to enable his wife to handle things in an emergency) he bought a ketch, added an inner staysail and, while he did not shorten the main mast, he has changed his headsail for a high cut yankee with a shortened luff...and fitted a furling main also of reduced size. He has added an oversized anchor winch, changed his lifelines for solid rails with increased height, fitted granny rails beside the mast, solid folding mast steps and has peppered the area below decks with handholds.

All of these alterations were made to an already capable sea boat, but still cost them quite a lot of money.

The positive aspect to this is that there can be no better way to convalesce than through sailing. I welcome you to our forum and hope you find the boat that will serve you well across the years, but counsel you against being tempted to buy a 'bargain' which could aggravate your injuries....after all we are blokes and that means we are a little bit stupid (thanks for the reminder sweetie) and even without injury we are predisposed to doing things that may be physically, just a tiny bit beyond us.

Best wishes

David.

Trim50 10-16-2007 11:40 PM

Maintaining my boat IS the cause of my back pain...and I'm 42!

johnar 10-17-2007 02:15 AM

Thank you all for your responses concerns, I guess I really should have been more clear as to my injury. Back in 2005 I was a department Manager at a local Steel Fabrication shop. I went up a ladder 20' to see why a part would not fit on this machine and while up there someone moved the crane, I fell and have been unable to work due to the injury. This was not the first time I have been hurt on the job (1990) finger cut off from a forklift driver being drunk on the job and again (1995) 600 lb. of hot steel came off of the crane right on me, 70% of my body was burn. I know some will say I am very unlucky but in the steel industry it is common to have a high injury rate.

I have talk to my Doctor and he and I both agree that if daily activity is not climbing a mast I should be fine.

This is one of the first concerns I had but felt that I have always over come past injury's that this would not stand in my way.

Ok now that is covered I can move on ( I hate talking about my health) just reminds me of the past.

I do not want to sound as I know it all because this is not true. I have worked all my life in building things and even in design, I believe this will help me a lot in the refit and I will have a great deal of help on the refit.

One thing your responses help me with the most was in rigging, I was unsure what would be the best. Roller furling looks to be the best for me. I love how your friend was able to change his boat to accommodate his disability.

Trim50 10-17-2007 02:46 AM

I highly recommend crewing for the OPYC (Other People's Yacht Club) before you dive into a boat purchase. You will learn volumes crewing and racing. I believe I learned the most about how I wanted to rig my boat from racing on the weekends on other people's boats...you can take away the best ideas from each boat knowing exactly how it should be rigged to work for you. This will save you years of experimenting on your own boat.

MMNETSEA 10-17-2007 11:27 AM

Hello John,

Welcome to our club ! great advice ! Within whatever limitations others in your life may have set for you , you will find a different life in the fraternity of cruising yachtsmen and women.

Over the years I have seen many people who have been challenged for reason or another - and where the life on a cruising yacht has actually helped their every day physical fitness. Just going from saloon to the cockpit 20 times a day is more exercise than many shore bound people perform in a week. My best friend has been cruising for 18 years - last week had a second spinal fusion op (this time L6<>7) he is now on his way back to his boat !

Your selection of boats is fine :- "Hans Christian (maybe out of price range) Westsail and Tartan. To me they are well built boats and fall under the Heavy Displacement Class for Blue water.""

The Hans Christian (which I know well ) is a good heavy boat - BUT - expensive ! Expensive to Maintain, needs lots of upkeep ! Spacewise in terms of living space could be better.

The Tartan and the Westsail are average.

However the best advice has already been given :- research and research to find a boat that meets your set objectives (don't change them to suit the broker) Once you find a boat that really matches in most departments - get a good honest surveyor to produce a report just for you (not the sellor !) and take it from there.

Whatever, you are are always welcome to return for 2 cents or more.

Richard

Lynx 10-17-2007 12:26 PM

Crew on a few boats first.

Raising the anchor in wind by hand.

Handling the sails. lower and stow them with some wind.

Maving the boat to and from a dock or lock.

A smaller boat is less weight and less of everything else including money. You should have enough money left over to come ashore and keep the boat. A 26 foot coastal cruiser will do you fine.

Oh yea, stay coastal.

MMNETSEA 10-17-2007 01:18 PM

Hi Lynx,

What represents a good example of a "coastal cruiser" ? -- in fact what is a coastal cruiser?

Charles J. Doane in a very good article affirms that there is no set formula that makes for an ideal coastal cruiser. Because coastal-cruising boats are not likely to be caught out in bad weather for extended periods, their construction need not meet offshore standards. Any of the popular mass-produced boats currently on the market should be more than adequate in terms of strength. Because coastal boats do tend to spend a lot of time tied up to docks, focus should on amenities. A substantial AC shore-power system is usually a critical item and will go a long way toward making your boat as comfortable as your home, allowing you to enjoy microwaves, hair driers, air conditioning, televisions, and other luxuries without installing such impedimenta as generators, huge battery banks, and inverters. Nor do you need big tanks. Capacities of as little as 20 gallons of fuel and 50 of water, given a mid-size boat between 30 and 40 feet, should be adequate in most cases.

Otherwise, what constitutes a well-equipped coastal cruiser varies by location. A boat based in northern waters will get a lot more use if it has a sheltered cockpit and a good heater on board. Likewise, a boat in the sunny south will need good ventilation and a good bimini to keep its crew happy. The same goes for the sail inventory. If light winds predominate, you'll need a big genoa, probably a spinnaker or drifter, and a lightweight main. If your cruising ground sees a lot of heavy air, you'll need smaller, tougher sails. In all cases, you'll want a roller-reefing headsail with a sunstrip (so you can leave it bent on when the boat is idle) and a mainsail cover that is easy to put on and remove. The faster you can get under way, the more you will use the boat.

However, notwithstanding Charles J. Doane's good analysis what might make up a coastal cruiser it does not answer all the original questions by Johnar.

Only John himself will have to determine what suits himself and his objectives.

Gallivanters 10-17-2007 03:35 PM

I'm certainly no medical expert, but...

Twelve years ago, while living aboard at the Pier Marketplace Marina in Cairns, Australia... I became friends with an interesting and fun cruising couple. They were living aboard a yellow catamaran across the creek at anchor. They'd been at it for years sailing all up & down the east coast of Queensland and NSW. He was an electrical engineer masquerading as a mechanical engineer who cheerfully offered to help anyone fix anything on their boat (myself included) anytime. She was a talented artist.

What made them so special (in my eyes) was the fact that He was paraplegic and She was quadriplegic.

I used to let them park their wheel chairs by our boat and charge her batteries when they dinghied back over to their boat for the night. I'd sometimes offer them a shove up the dock ramp when the tides were low (they'd never ask) and go have a few beers with them at the local pubs. We even carried them both (and their chairs) up into the Cairns Yacht Club for a big brew-ha one evening as they'd NEVER been there because it's built on stilts and there was no elevator. We all had a riotious good time that night. As we left, he wouldn't allow anyone to help him down the stairs and attempted to do a wheelie all the way down to the beash! He ended-up sprawled on the sand laughing his butt off after taking a tumble, breaking his chair. He said it was okay as he couldn't feel his scraped knees and he was planning to build another wheelchair, anyway. He designed, cut, bent & welded them himself - out on their catamaran. He was a big guy and hard on his equipment.

At their boat - they'd row up between the hulls connect block & tackle and He'd lift themselves and the dinghy up to deck level and hop aboard. The boat was rigged as usual but with twin roller furlers (which he'd designed & built) and attached one to the front of each hull. Their boat was uniquely arranged to allow them easy access with ramps instead of ladders. She told me that she'd never even been out on the foredeck area and that whenever she fell over she just had to wait until he could help her back up again.

They loved to go scuba diving with battery-pwered underwater scooters.

One time - I noticed their boat was gone for several days... but they'd left their chairs by our boat. When I saw them again I asked if they'd gone out to the reef, or what...? and he said no, that they needed to install a new depth transducer on one of the hulls and that they'd gone up the creek to careen the boat in order to do the job. Immagine (if you will) the challenge and difficulty they went through to accomplish that job... between tides, in the mud, without the use of his legs or an able bodied assistant to help on the inside. He would have been crawling through the mud, with tools, cutting a hole in the boat, feeding wire, bedding, tightening & sealing the boat while keeping an eye on the water lever changing around him.

Immagine.

I feel sure some of you may have met them in your travels around Ozzy. They're hard to miss.

When the day finally came that they loaded their wheelchairs into their dinghy and said their good-bys, they said they were sailing up to Thursday Island to do some kind of computer job he'd been offered. After that they were going across the top and heading for the Kimberlies.

I can't remember their names (not even the boat's) and I've regretably lost their mailing address but they were as nice as could be and inspirational to myself and to anyone who ever met them - I'm sure.

Don't ever let anyone tell you that life at sea is always easy. But whenever I feel a cramp or sore back or skinned-up knee or hear anyone complaining about the joyful tasks of changing hot oil, toilet hoses or cleaning mud off the foredeck... I always look back and think about my friend laughing in the sand with a broken wheelchair on top of him.

And then I start in with "You think thats hard - you shouldda met this Australian couple who..."

Love to Live - Live to Love,

Kirk

Lighthouse 10-17-2007 04:53 PM


johnar 10-17-2007 05:08 PM

Good Morning all,

Wow, i love the post they gave me alot of incuragement. The story about the couple that is disabled was great, he reminds of some of the thing that will help me make extra money if needed, i have some back ground in Computers as well as Auto Cad and wiring machines. The company i worked at for years had me working a job in which i had no title, my duties were to find better/cheaper ways to make the product.

I very much agree that i need to crew on boats that it is the best way to learn, in my case i have aways been able to learn anything by hands on and asking advice from what i call old heads. I have always loved to talk to older people about almost anything, i feel the knowlege they have is past along in conversations.

I guess i am very lucky again that i live so close to a marina and they have a very nice boat club that i will be spending alot of time at over the next few months. I live right on the Mississippi River in Alton illinoius, as it is becoming winter now i am not sure who many people will be sailing.

One thing i would like to ask about is "stepping the Mast" is it a hard task to do while on the water? To me it would be very hard. There must be some type of winch used.

Another thing is passing through a lock, is there a charge? Do you make arangements ahead of time?

The reason i am asking is if i was able to have the boat here in Alton for the refit it would make my life alot easier. Right now i have free rent and able hands to help me with the boat. If i had to move to the coast or Great Lakes to refit i would have added cost.

Thank you so much freinds.

imagine2frolic 10-17-2007 05:18 PM

Kirk,

When I was trying to teach my 10 year old how to snow ski. He kept saying he couldn't, and had a million excuses. Of course I am not the best of teachers, but we had to make do. Just about when I was ready to give up. Here comes this man swishing, and cutting like no one else, and on one leg. I looked at my son, and he looked at the guy missing a leg. He was skiing in no time at all.

You have to hand it to the people who never complain, and never let anything hold them back. Especially when disabled these people are an inspiration.......Johnar, only you can make your dream a reality, and only you can overcome the difficult times. I have my fingers crossed for you if this is what you decide to do. You can dream your dream, but it is more fun to LIVE IT!

johnar 10-17-2007 05:40 PM

Well said thank you so much

imagine2frolic 10-17-2007 09:53 PM

About a mile north of the lock on the Missouri side of the river. There is a marina where my friend keeps his boat. This guy takes newbies all the time to the Bahamas out of Miami, and has done it for over 35 years. I was one of them, and look at me now.

Did you work in the Granite City mills? If so we may have crossed paths at one time or another. My first sail was right there on the river, and it changed my life. At the end of town on the right hand side for years sat a 32 Ford Pick up. I can't remember the business, but I actually tried to buy that truck.

I lived in Collinsville, Belleville, Edwardsville, and so many other towns....oops customer. I will send you a pm soon......John

johnar 10-18-2007 12:04 AM

Hello Imagine,

The last 9 years that i worked was at a place called Mart Corp. it is located in West Port over by the airport in St. Louis, they made very big power washing machines. Before that i was a metalergist and have worked at a number of steel foundries and yes Ganite City steel was one i wroked at for very short time i think in 1993. When i was burnt i was working at Dinnion Foundry as the oven operator and after that i desided to change the line of work i was in.

I just moved to Alton this year in June from down by 6 flags but a have a friend that lives right there next to the marina your friend is at. That is called West Alton and i have been there a few times with my Dolphin 19'.

The next time i am out i will go down and see if the truck is still there.

I am so happy you know something about this area, i am sure i will have a number of question.

Today i spent some time reading about stepping the mast, which was the one thing that i had the biggest fear of doing. I was so happy to see how it was done, I now know that it is something that i can do with help. Just could not picture a light going out while out and climbing the mast is one thing i will avoid as much as i can.

One thing i am trying to do is figure out the things that i will have to do in order to know what i will be able to do alone or need help with. I am sure i will never sail alone.

What started this dream really going was the days out on my boat seeing others sail on Clearwater Lake and then reading online how people retirer and live aboard. I know that it is what will make me happy and that i will be able to do it, even if i am unable to sail every day i can find a marina down south and live aboard.

I feel like i have lived and worked a very hard life and now that the kids are grown it is time that i slow my life down some and be happy with my life. That is why i tell people that i am changing my lifestyle and not just that i am going to live on a boat. To me a boat is a home and if taken care of like a home a person could be so happy with the lifestyle.

My sister thinks that sail boats are made only for parties and that people get on them just to get drunk and go fast. lol I try to tell her no it is the feeling of being free and that not all people drink on boats, myself im not a drinker but do not mind my friends having a few cold ones.

My reasons are to be free, free from my ties at land, the every day driving, the crime, the sounds of a city oh and i cant foreget the winters (i hate the cold).

well i hope to get to know you better and i would like to thank you for your post.

John

ChrisG 10-18-2007 04:57 AM

Well good luck.

Even cheap boats are expensive. Like over the medium term you will be looking at probably a new motor, sails, electric windlass etc. Nevertheless it can be done.

I think you should narrow the size down to 32-36, for cost and handling. Probably a cutter. Big enough for two if you get lucky.

$1500 is ok to live on once major boat expenses have been taken care of but unless it is fully inflation adjusted beware.

You probably won't know unless you have experienced it, but even in moderately rough conditions you can be literally thrown around the boat if you are not careful to hang on.

You also have a substantial learning curve to undertake, not only learning to sail but learning all the rest that goes with command ie sailing courses.

You don't get boats surveyed unless you intend buying. You should therefore learn enough to pick out the problems that can be ascertained.

No rush. Try it first. Have fun.

Pelagic 10-18-2007 05:29 AM

Hi John,

I’ve said this before but I think it applies especially to your concerns. Study different types of boats from an ergonomic point of view and as in Kirk’s great story about that couple…attitude is everything once you have made your decision. Study… then go with your gut feeling as to what platform feels most comfortable, and then enjoy learning how to service that platform concerning your specific needs. Have fun and remember…the journey has already begun

Yachtmaster81 10-25-2007 02:44 PM

"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible."

T.E.Lawrence

Seeratlas 11-05-2007 08:18 PM

I'm going to give a bit different piece of advice. I would seriously consider a junk type rigged boat. The most trying thing on a boat (imho) is reefing the std. bermuda rig in a sudden blow. snapping your harness lead onto a jackline, clambering forward in the weather, struggling with the flapping sail...well, not going to be good on a previously injured back. With a good junk, you sit in your ph or cockpit, let fly the halyard and the rig comes down, settles into the lazyjacks, and you take another drink of coffee.

Now junks are not particularly fast to windward, but they are the equal of the bermuda offwind, and often superior and that's without having to set any poles or chutes...which is another thing your back might not be up to.

The best way to get a junk rig on a boat is to buy a used one all set up by its previous owner. Often they will be built of steel which might work well for you also as used steel boats are often tremendous buys in the places where fibreglass is king. For cruising, a sound steel hull properly barrier coated and maintained is generally stronger than a glass boat, especially when grinding up against a reef, a concrete wharf, or some yahoo's dock queen which has come loose in a blow and headed your way. They are generally more watertight due to the welding of decks, houses, and fittings as opposed to bolt thru's on wood or fibreboats. They have their quirks, but many experienced circumnavigators prefer them. Once prepared their maintenance is not a burden. With the junk rig, especially a free standing one, a whole lot of what can go wrong on a boat is eliminated, and the costs involved in maintaining the rig and sails is drastically reduced.

Since your income is secure, and deadlines and schedules won't be your problem, get one with a good motor and big tanks, plenty of sail area (easier to reef than add sail later) and I think you may find that sailing predominately downwind, while adding a little motor power to those times you absolutely have to go hard to windward, will suit you just fine. you will also spend a LOT less money over time.

Lastly, if you consider any steel hulled vessel, be sure and retain an experienced metal boat surveyor adept with an ultrasound. Pay him whatever it takes to go over the boat with a fine toothed comb. A good man with an ultrasound can not only tell you what's solid steel and what's not, but can find invisible places where perfectly good appearing coatings have nevertheless come loose from the steel underneath.

Ok, one more piece of advice. over the years I've seen an awful lot of cruisers start out in 30's, move to 33's, then 36's or 7's, and either finally settle in the 40's or with gobs of money for electric reefing /furling stowaway sail setups, graduate into the 50's or even 60's. With a good junk rig, most men can safely handle up to say a mid 40's to 50 ft. boat without expensive powered equipment. The difference in living between a 35 or 36 and say a 40 or 42 is vastly more than the numbers suggest due to the increase in ship's volume. If you're going to live on this boat, and maybe pick up a mate a long the way assuming you're single now, its something to consider. I used to singlehand my 54' sloop without electric winches etc., and I wouldn't recommend it. Tons of living space, full shop etc. but the stress took most of the fun out of sailing so I found myself going out less and less unless I had a bunch of crew to go with me. Finally I sold the boat and began to rethink my priorities. I settled on what many would still consider a *large* boat at 44ft. and around 38 thousand pounds displacement. I'm not alone. If you read around a lot of experienced sailors beginning to think about their own personal and perhaps *last* boat, have settled right in that 43 to 46' range, setup to require minimal foredeck action to handle the sails etc.

One thing for sure, get out on the water first, as one of the best places to go shopping for good used boats is at the termination points of "dream cruises" where many once proud owners find that being seasick for days on end, fighting in close quarters, and not being able to talk for hours with aunt martha on the phone everyday doesn't quite fit the dream they had imagined. https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif You can find some hellacious deals at the end of cruising season in these places. Just first make sure you aren't going to turn right around and do the same thing.

You can read all the sailing magazines, books, and forums like this in the world but until you get out there in a blow in the middle of the night and the power goes dead...you won't really know if sailing is the life for you https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif

now just to be fair, there really are those idyllic days on the hook, sunset splashing an amazing array of colors across the westward horizon, a warm breeze caressing the fronds of the palms into seductive and almost hypnotic waves to the tempo of the rhythmic lapping of the sea at the shoreline; the sounds of seabirds reassuring their mates that all is well as they return to their evening roosts, the delightful smells of fresh seafood sizzling on the grill tempered with subtle (and sometimes NOT so subtle) aromas of mysterious and exotic spices..., that glass of your favorite beverage, whatever it may be, sitting there held close in the palm of your hand, and if you're lucky, the knowing smile, understanding and comraderie eloquently communicated without words by a fellow being and kindred spirit.

AT its worst, well, it can be pretty bad..but....

at its best...well, it IS the best https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif

Good luck to you.

seer

johnar 12-02-2007 03:41 AM

Thank you very much for your post Seer, I do love the idea of a steel boat its funny just the thought of it feels safe. lol The one thing i have to say is after looking around i think it may be hard to find any boat setup just the way i want. I have never heard of Junks so i will research that Thank you. Now a little update. As of 2 weeks ago i have settled some of the legal battles after a very long time and i was shocked to learn i have more money than planed, In another 2 weeks i plan to go look at a Huns Christian i found she is a 1985 36' and the asking price is 1/3 the money i now have, To be honest i have some doubts with this boat as i have read a lot and found that a number of people think of the Huns Christian as being the Caddy of sail boats and with the asking price being so low $49,000 and the work being done on the boat in the last year 2006: New haul out with bottom paint; Prop Polished; New Zincs. I get the feeling( it could be too good to be true) but i am willing to spend the $300 flight cost to look at it. I do not plan the first boat i see but i do have a very short list of boats i am willing to buy. Well thank you all for your advice and i fill update as i know more. John

MMNETSEA 12-02-2007 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnar (Post 15394)
In another 2 weeks i plan to go look at a Hans Christian i found she is a 1985 36' and the asking price is 1/3 the money i now have, To be honest i have some doubts with this boat as i have read a lot and found that a number of people think of the Huns Christian as being the Caddy of sail boats and with the asking price being so low $49,000 and the work being done on the boat in the last year 2006: New haul out with bottom paint; Prop Polished; New Zincs.

Hi John,

Your expressed doubts about this boat may be very valid !! If this is the one in San Diego, then check out the full specs as provided in the brokers advertisement. There is no clear mention of the Engine = make? hours ? condition ? etc...? Likewise there is no mention of the Transmission , the standing Rigging etc... !!!

Here is a current advertisement for another Hans Christian that is 3ft smaller and 2 years older :-

Hans Christian

Length: 33' Beam: 11.75' Draft: 5.5'

Year: 1983

Type: cruiser

Hull: fiberglass monohull

Engine: 1 diesel inboard

Location: Bellingham, Washington

Asking: $121,500

However, It could still be the buy of the last 25 years - but if you go ahead with the idea, then advice often given on this forum is :- to get your OWN Surveyor to do a full survey for you - at the same get a Marine diesel mechanic/technician to check the engine and transmission thoroughly, including tests under load.

Somehow methinks that this is another of those times that its a good thing " to look the gift horse in the mouth"

All the Best

Richard

johnar 12-02-2007 06:49 AM

I knew something was not right about it. Yes it is the same boat. Yes before i buy any boat i will have it checked out fully. To me it is alot of money and will be my home, i would never buy a home without it being checked. I guess it is back to plan A that is to just go down and do a local search.

Thank you so much. Just showed me i am getting smarter.

John

johnar 12-02-2007 08:57 AM

I was just thinking (I know big mistake) https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blush.gif maybe I should ask for some advice. As you know I am shopping now but with living in the Mid West I will have a lot of travel cost added with having boats pulled and checked by surveyors could become very costly before I even find the right boat. As of yet my search has been very limited to local places and online search more to just get some type of clue to the market. I have also been trying to different types of boat. What I have learn so far is that I am looking for a boat no larger than 40' something 2 to 3 people can handle, large tankage. Where I start to get confused is the rigging. I know I have talk about my Back problems but do not see that as big a problem as some would think. I have read a lot about different rigging but with the lack of experience and advice on different types best for me it is hard. I think it is hard to find the right boat with the right rigging with the right everything, there has to be some kind of trade off. Ok back to the subject at hand. Can anyone offer advice on a way to search for the right boat? I have read that shopping on the west coast you get less boat for your money, on the north east coast better buy for your buck and south east (FL) a lot more boats to pick from. I look at this like buying a home but you can not look at the basement of a boat everything has to be checked by a professional. well to be honest I have some fears of making a mistake to me it is a lot of money. And like many others I would like to get the most for my buck. I understand what you plan to use the boat for plays into it a lot, myself I would like to find my boat and live the first 6 months to a year on the hook around the Keys then do some traveling. As of right now I am single but like I tell my family joking when they say "I will be so lonely" I hope to meet me a nice island girl to have as first mate https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub.../icon_loll.gif as always there is some truth in every joke, but with love you never know what will come your way until that day comes I will make use of traveling mates that I have seen post looking to crew for passage. If I ask point blank what will the boat be used for my answer would be cruising. I have done some sailing before but it will be unlike anything I have planned I need some Bad weather experience, after talking to a few friends I have met on here I believe the best way for me to do this is move onto the boat and make more friends that day sail or short trips that will be willing to let me crew and learn the things I need. For the last 33 months this move has been in the planning stage and I have read so much but it is now time to move on to the hands on stage and make the leap. Well I am very sorry that my posts are so long, for some reason when I sit down to post a few words it turns into a book. John

JeanneP 12-02-2007 12:24 PM

I just woke up to snow (SNOW!), and surprisingly low temperatures for snow; 21* F, -6.7* C. What am I doing here?!!!

Which reminds me of our own search for a cruising boat, and the difference a year of experience makes.

We had decided to go cruising "when we retire" and that was when I set out to learn to sail. By the time we bought Watermelon we had sailed on a series of boats from 20' to 30', giving us a reasonable idea of the approximate size we were looking for. Peter figured about 42'. That still left a lot about cruising boats we had no experience with. We had a lot of help and a lot of luck.

Watermelon was 39' and a roomy 39' at that.

I think the best information we got from sailors was from the delivery captains who had lots of experience on many different makes of boat. Doesn't cost much, either - a couple drinks, a pleasant afternoon or evening listening to their stories.

A few years ago, looking for a new boat, we spent far too much time driving up and down the Florida coast looking for a boat, and not finding one. Partly because what we really wanted didn't exist. We sighed deeply, kept eyes and ears open, and a year later found our current Watermelon. Another compromise, but the right boat for us for right now.

The most important thing to keep in mind is "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

Seeratlas 12-02-2007 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnar (Post 15394)
Thank you very much for your post Seer, I do love the idea of a steel boat its funny just the thought of it feels safe. lol The one thing i have to say is after looking around i think it may be hard to find any boat setup just the way i want. I have never heard of Junks so i will research that Thank you. Now a little update. As of 2 weeks ago i have settled some of the legal battles after a very long time and i was shocked to learn i have more money than planed, In another 2 weeks i plan to go look at a Huns Christian i found she is a 1985 36' and the asking price is 1/3 the money i now have, To be honest i have some doubts with this boat as i have read a lot and found that a number of people think of the Huns Christian as being the Caddy of sail boats and with the asking price being so low $49,000 and the work being done on the boat in the last year 2006: New haul out with bottom paint; Prop Polished; New Zincs. I get the feeling( it could be too good to be true) but i am willing to spend the $300 flight cost to look at it. I do not plan the first boat i see but i do have a very short list of boats i am willing to buy. Well thank you all for your advice and i fill update as i know more. John

Johnar,

I would consider taking a trip to a boaty area and spending a week or so looking around. There are a LOT of boats for sale, many of which aren't actively listed but the yard managers know them etc. In the yard I'm in in ne Florida there must be close to 20 cruising type boats for sale. Many fully rigged and equiped at sacrifice prices. It is a serious buyer's market out there. There is a website called Mahina Expeditions something (google it) where a pretty experienced sailor sets forth a darned good monologue on cruising boats, naming quite a few as good prospects and explaining why. You might peruse that. In any event, getting physically to a boating location and looking at a lot of boats, talking to a lot of sailors etc. I think would be more cost and time efficient for your purposes.

Places like Lauderdale, here in St. Augustine, San Diego, Seattle, etc. would offer up a LOT of information and a lot of boat *eyeballing* in a week or so, and are relatively cheap to get to with an advance air/hotel deal.

Lastly, a friend once advised me to buy a dirty but sound boat, explaining I would make a ton of money just cleaning it up. He was right. Americans tend to buy on 'show', i.e. superficial appearance, thus depressing hugely the price of boats that have been sitting awhile (on the hard is better than just hanging out in the water...) If the hull and rig are sound, the mechanics sound, etc., you could be sitting in harbor refinishing interior wood at your leisure, having saved gobs and gobs of money. I know of several who have purchased boats needing interior refurbing and sailed off to Cartegena, or several ports in Venezuela and for very small daily rates, had their interiors transformed by local expert craftsmen into floating palaces. I mean simply beautiful, and come out waaaaaaaaay ahead on dollars, leaving far more for cruising https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif

Something to consider.

again, good luck and take professional advice https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif It's the most cost effective thing you can do around boats.https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif

seer

Anton 12-02-2007 03:48 PM

Got to agree with the previous poster, bigtime. I was slapping myself on the back for getting into my somewhat Spartan liveaboard so cheaply until I found out the previous owner had offered it to his dockmates for almost half what I paid for it...with no success...there are a lot of beautiful deals going on at marinas that never make Yachtworld, and a little hanging out and personal exposition over chilled hops might produce opportunities to make the most miserly green with envy...lol

johnar 12-02-2007 11:49 PM

Thank you all so much I think I will head down to Florida and stay a few weeks a friend of mine offer to let me stay at his home in FT Lauderdale. this should save me some money.

John

MMNETSEA 12-03-2007 01:08 AM

Hi John,

In providing a few answers to your major points that you have identified :_

1. I will have a lot of travel cost added with having boats pulled and checked by surveyors could become very costly before I even find the right boat?

Don't go to survey until you have found a boat that appears in your judgement to be sound , that your fits well within your planned purchase budget , that fits your medium to long term cruising needs. When you are satisfied, then and only then get an experienced Surveyor who is independent of the seller and/or the broker. Negotiate a full condition and market value survey.If the boat is in the water have it lifted for as long as is necessary to check the hull, prop, thru-hulls etc . If on the hard - then a better and less expensive survey can be completed. Most Surveyors do not survey the engine or transmission - but will comment on appearance , Here you should get a qualified marine diesel tech to check them out.

2. So far is that I am looking for a boat no larger than 40' something 2 to 3 people can handle, large tankage ?

Your plan to keep it below 40ft is a good ploy - ie amazing the difference in the asking price between a 39ft and a 40ft -- that 1 foot saves a lot of money. Also remember that measurements in advertisements can be misleading - (a 35 ft boat with 4ft bowsprit is a lot different boat to a 39ft boat without) From a cruising point of view the waterline length is more more significant in that it determines the hull speed of the boat and to a degree the usable space within the boat. The other factor in size is that for every foot of length - the costs of mast, sails , rigging, ground tackle, propulsion system etc etc..increase exponentially. Not to forget that length is the measure of cost when in a marina , every inch is taken into account.

3. Where I start to get confused is the rigging. I have read a lot about different rigging but with the lack of experience and advice on different types best for me it is hard.

I guess you are concerned about 'Standing Rigging' , Rigging that is permanently secured such as shrouds, stays, bob-stays, martingales, and mast pendants. Usually of stainless steel - maybe the best advice as to type etc. , is still to keep it simple , strong (oversize) Norseman or Staylok fittings easier to replace and check than swage fittings. Mast , boom and spreaders; again - nothing fancy but good quality.

4. Can anyone offer advice on a way to search for the right boat? I have read that shopping on the west coast you get less boat for your money, on the north east coast better buy for your buck and south east (FL) a lot more boats to pick from. I look at this like buying a home but you can not look at the basement of a boat everything has to be checked by a professional. myself I would like to find my boat and live the first 6 months to a year on the hook around the Keys then do some traveling. I believe the best way for me to do this is move onto the boat and make more friends that day sail or short trips that will be willing to let me crew and learn the things I need.

It looks like you have already worked out a good plan yourself, add the advice already given by Jeanne, Seer, Anton and others should really help in your search.

To sum up - sit down , fix a top limit for a purchase plus survey budget . Take some time - go to places where there are active liveaboards - delivery skippers - walk the docks - look at the broker's advertisements and if you speak to them get FULL specs. Take plenty pictures - make copious notes - take time to come to a decision.

https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub..._goodluck2.gif

Richard

Peter Owen 12-03-2007 10:50 AM

While I don't have any particular physical limitations other than a few old rugby injuries which get worse in bad weather, I find plenty of resonance with your concerns about finding the right boat. My concern is that I am not experienced enough to short hand the larger boat that I want for living purposes with a conventional rig.

This leaves me - yes, it's still a work in progress - with the prospect of a smaller boat or having to look for suitable crew for the longer passages envisaged. That is until I came across freestanding rigs which can offer conventional sail plans but also include Cat boats, cat ketches, junk rigs (already mentioned earlier), wing sails etc.

At the moment and until I've got my finances together, of course, I'm still an armchair proponent of this concept but you may find it an interesting to look at some previous related threads on this site. If you want to see some examples for sale, try searching www.yachtworld.com for Freedom (older cat ketches, more "modern" 36-44 footers), Tanton (larger cat ketches with nice layout hull form) or Nonsuch (really nice, very roomy cat boats with loads of space); "Googling" Sponberg, freestanding rig will get you to a site that explains the concept and benefits of the latter.

Hope this helps; good luck with your search and everything else.

See ya.

MMNETSEA 12-03-2007 11:45 AM

Hi Peter ,

Thanks for the direction to Freestanding masts etc. Do you happen to know if there is an owners forum for either of Freedom or Tanton Yachts ??

Had a look at Sponberg - noted that he is a yacht designer with an interest in Free standing

rigs.

Richard

johnar 12-03-2007 11:47 AM

Peter Thank you so much for your post and advice. I do not claim to know a lot but i would like to offer a few thing i have learn over the last 2 years. First off set your worries aside about handling the boat alone, there are so many people out there that are looking for a free ride back to port after dropping of a boat or just Crew for other people so they can Travel. I have look at some of the Cats out there and for me i believe they are harder to handle because of the size and the way they handle in bad weather. Yes i am sure others will disagree. With the modern age we live in there are so many aids made now that even a boat in the 50' range can be sailed with one man, Myself i would not even think of it. I will not take a long passage alone no matter what size of boat, i just do not think it is safe. With me i like a nice heavy boat that is slow when i step foot onto the boat time stops i am not in a hurry for anything. If i wanted a travel fast i would buy a plane. With that being said, give me the well built full keel slower boat that has a reliable rigging. I find it funny that people say to find a boat that will fit the type of sailing you will do, day sail, cruising etc. well to me in any case i want a very strong boat if i am out for one hour to 20 days i want to know i will return. I do not know your finances but with me, i was hurt in 05 and had a very long legal battle that is over now thank god but for that time i have made my plans no matter the amount i got i planned to move on a boat. The one thing i would like to say is please do not let lack of money stop you, the longer it is a dream the more likely it may pass. We do not get younger and the sooner you make the move the better. I am sorry if my post is a little off today but i feel down some steps and took some pain pills along with being unable to sleep. my dog was at the top of the steps and i tried to go over her well she got up right when i went to step over her. ok well i wish you the best.

Peter Owen 12-03-2007 04:29 PM

Richard, I've been trying to find such groups for a while because I really would like to get some experience of sailing/cruising with the sort of rig which has so grabbed my attention. I seem to remember finding Freedom and Nonsuch owner's club but both seemed to be focussed locally - probably means that there aren't too many such rigs cruising out there - not necessarily a good sign! Even Eric Sponberg who you rightly point out has a keen interest in freestanding rigs and, in particular, coupling them with a rotating mast doesn't seem to know of such communities.

Johnar, While I'm not really interested in single handing all the time, there are times when it'd be nice to make shorter passages alone. The problem then is handling a bigger piece of kit when the going gets a bt tougher. Earlier this year I brought a very solid 43 footer around the south east corner of Spain with an inexperienced crew and got a hit by a persistent series of line squalls with sustained gusts of 35-40 knots - not too much of a problem but complicated by a mast furling main which decided to jam half way out - or was it in - and an engine that we could only run for about 10 minutes because even its dual Racors couldn't handle the crap churned up from the bottom of the tanks for long enough to clear the serial failures. Not necessarily an argument for freestanding rigs but certainly time to ponder the merits of in-mast furling to say nothing of making sure that the fuel tanks aren't gunged up before setting out on an otherwise simple overnighter!

I take your point about lack of money but the problem is really how you invest what you've got. I've recently been considering the higher capital cost end of the "project boat" option ie seaworthy but needing to be re-eqipped and the resounding advice here and from other forums was don't do it unless you know what you're doing, have time and/or a bottomless bank account and are prepared to put in enormous time and effort; also, of course, as has been suggested here, consider a smaller boat!

This leaves, dare I say, guys like you and me with the problem of finding/coming across a desirable/acceptable boat that is as near as damnit ready to go. I've found a couple but, while I can manage the capital expense, the weighted recurring and unexpected revenue implications put me beyond what I might call comfortable so for the moment .......

..... there's a lot to be said for the OP Yacht Club which is a pretty good place to be while waiting, Macawber-like, for something to turn up!

Sail safely; see ya!

jimthomsen 12-03-2007 06:11 PM

A great resource is John Neal from Mahina Expeditions. Check out his site: mahina.com John runs ocean sailing expeditions during the summer. He also helps people find cruising boats and is very honest. I think he charges about $300 and that lasts until you find a boat. Send him an email and ask how he works. I would trust his opinion.

imagine2frolic 12-03-2007 06:32 PM

Hey John,

I looked for you online for awhile, but we must have been missing eachother. I can't remember if I had mentioned Columbias? I recently sold a 30 footer with new sails, new roller furling, new ball bearing traveler, new custion, fresh motor, windless, 2 autopilots, solar panel, radar, bbq, and the list goes on for 10k. I was tired of supporting 2 boats, and I onlyn used the Columbia once a year for a day, or 2.

Keep looking you will find something like I had sold. The boat was a Puerta Vallarta vet from S.F. CA., and back. I did it single-handed. The mid 30 foot Columbias can be very solid boats, and priced right for you. Even the 43 foot is a nice boat, but a little to open down below for bad weather. That can be fixed though. Good to see you posting again.....John

P.S., let me know if you come down to Florida. Maybe we can hook up..............John

MMNETSEA 12-03-2007 10:59 PM

https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...>/icon_fyi.gif

It is true that Cruiserlog is also the respected forum where advice on selecting , buying and selling your cruising dream is readily available from our members with years and thousands of sea miles of experience. And it's free.

johnar 12-07-2007 06:41 AM

Hello All,

I have a few questions about rigging today, what I would like to know is the work/cost involved in changing the rigging from a ketch to a Junk Sail rig??? I am guessing the mast and everything needs to be replaced, to me that sounds very costly. lets say it is a 38' Ketch with Displacement of 18,800 lb. I know that the price will change depending on where and when the work would be done but just a guess and the cost and work would help me a lot. From the first time i seen the Junk Rig i fell in love.

Oh also can the Ketch rigging be sold easy after the work is done? To reclaim some of the cost.

thank you,

John

MMNETSEA 12-07-2007 07:47 AM

Hi John,

To arrive at a work/cost 'guestimate'of changing a "Ketch" into a "Junk rigged Boat" - it would be necessary know exactlly what "Ketch" we are talking about as there are countless designs for different models and sizes. Next it would be necessary to know what "Junk Rig " is the subject of the question : also many different types of junks -- see https://www.ayrs.org/Index19.html

Honestly, there are so many issues to be considered in a project of this nature - nearly impossible to answer in a forum. Even if you had a suitable KETCH in a boat builders yard and asked them for a quotation to convert it to a JUNK - doubt if you would get an agreeable answer.

The best bet is probably to find a boat that is already junk rigged as the result of a specific design criteria.

Richard

johnar 12-07-2007 08:09 AM

Thank you Richard, I was kind of thinking it would not be that easy.

John

imagine2frolic 12-07-2007 03:31 PM

I can say this about the transformation. My neighbor on a 29ft. Columbia went from a sloop to a 2 masted junk rig. He was very short on funds, and did all the work himself. He sold everything off, and that paid for the new material. Possibly your cost can also be covered by the sale of the rig? Sounds like a nice project. Keep us posted on that new thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,John

Peter Owen 12-07-2007 05:35 PM

Just a thought but if you wanted to convert a ketch to a junk rig, you might want to start from something like a Cat Ketch which already has a couple of stayless masts - Freedoms, for example, start at about 33ft and go up to just over 40. That said, my guess is that, if you were going for one of these you might just as well stick with the existing set-up.

See ya!

SailAwayWithMe 01-14-2008 11:20 AM

Hello John.

I am also new here and new to the "dream". We are in the process of selling our home and becoming debt free. We are looking for a boat in the same price range and plan to have around the same monthly income. My husband is extremely handy and I feel confident sailing with him. Living on a boat and traveling has been a life long dream of my husband and I also. We have raised four children (all in college) and feel this is a great time for us too. I love your dream and "YES" it is realistic. I have ran the numbers over and over again. With a little luck and hard work we'll all be great. Start looking for you boat now. Get your feet on board and smell the ocean! Let's keep in touch.

Darcy https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...>/rolleyes.gif

Trim50 01-14-2008 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seeratlas (Post 14695)
You can read all the sailing magazines, books, and forums like this in the world but until you get out there in a blow in the middle of the night and the power goes dead...you won't really know if sailing is the life for you https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/smile.gif

now just to be fair, there really are those idyllic days on the hook, sunset splashing an amazing array of colors across the westward horizon, a warm breeze caressing the fronds of the palms into seductive and almost hypnotic waves to the tempo of the rhythmic lapping of the sea at the shoreline; the sounds of seabirds reassuring their mates that all is well as they return to their evening roosts, the delightful smells of fresh seafood sizzling on the grill tempered with subtle (and sometimes NOT so subtle) aromas of mysterious and exotic spices..., that glass of your favorite beverage, whatever it may be, sitting there held close in the palm of your hand, and if you're lucky, the knowing smile, understanding and comraderie eloquently communicated without words by a fellow being and kindred spirit.

I'm sold!

imagine2frolic 01-14-2008 09:28 PM

SEER,

You salesman YOUUUUUUU!!!!!!!! https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...DIR#>/cool.gif

johnar 05-31-2008 04:25 AM

Hello All, I really hope every one is doing well.

I return home today from a short trip to FL. to buy my boat, i wanted to give an update.

She is a 1979 Morgan O.I. 33' to me she is a work of beauty but in need for a few repairs. I hope to have her bottom painted and replace the Hoses and belts within the next few weeks and my plan is to motor her from Port Charlotte, FL to Jacksonville by way of the ICW when the work is done and i have made the arangements at the marina there. I understand that the depth in lake Obkeechobee is too low right now but i will have to reseach that soon.

well i will go for now and add more after i get moved aboard.

John

PS to John Thank you so much for your help, you are great people.

JeanneP 05-31-2008 12:03 PM

Here's a link to Lake Okeechobee depth reports: https://www.saj.usace.army.mil/h2o/reports/r-nav.txt

Last year when we crossed Lake Okeechobee in May, we hit bottom twice, once when we strayed slightly (very slightly) out of the channel, and again at one spot in the marked channel. MV Watermelon draws 2.5'.

Crossing the lake saves so much time, so pray for rain. As little as anyone wants hurricanes or tropical storms, the rain that a tropical storm usually brings would go a long way to filling the lake up again. So. pray for rain.

johnar 06-07-2008 12:41 AM

Hello All, Well i just return from spending a few days on the boat to survey what all work needs to be done, boy do i have a list. I would like to talk about the things listed in hopes other that know more than i will offer some ideas to maybe save some money. 33 FT. Morgan O.I. 1979 Perkins 50Hp. 4108. The motor was checked two weeks ago, it started and was run about 15 minutes off a jerry can, Has a leak that i could not locate around the back of the oil pan. All i really cared was it start. Fuel tank needs drain and clean. Prop turn both ways with no strange sounds. The boat has a wheel tiller, when the wheel was turn the rudder did not move, the wheel turn free and easy, when i looked below there is a cable broke. I started with the inside as it was very Hot in FL the first day. The first thing i checked was the Batteries there are 2 of them 650 cold AMPs the date on them 4-08. I next checked cabin lights, all but one light work they are old and may replace just for looks, I then tried to fire up the Ice box, i was unable to find any switch labled for it but found a number unlable, i changed the fuse at the unit but still nothing. I then hooked up the shore power and located a breaker box, what i found here i did not like, second hand workmenship. https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/angry.gif I found a total of 4 A/C outlet on the boat no A/C lights, I then tried to fire up the Mermaid Air Unit, I could not find any switch other than the one right on the front of the unit, I did not have any power to the unit, unable to test. I then went to test the fresh water pump but again i was unable to locate any switch, the pump is located right under the Galley sink but no power to pump. The Manual water pump worked just find, but with the boat on the hard i would think there is not water. Am i right the Manual pump is Saltwater??? https://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/pub...IR#>/blush.gif The next thing was the stove, I worked fine but feel i should replace the burners units. I then went on to the Tankage, Raw tank in under settee 35gal Bag and it is close to being full. There are two PVC Tanks, One under the V Berth and other under Capt. Berth together i have to guess they are 70 gal. I was hoping to get them drained while there but is was not done. When i got the boat i was told that a hatch was left open and water stood inside the boat, I started taking up the floor to find and water damage, other than a small discolor of the Teak i was unable to even tell there was water in it. The Floor needs to be painted or something. It looks like a floor that was painted years ago and the paint wore off. I love the look of Oak so i am thinking of an overlay of Oak on the floor. All the Teak in the Cabin looks in very good shape, I am not a big fan of the very dark wood so i hope to think of a way to make it lighter. The Fabric inside the Cabin on the walls has a few lose places and needs paint, i did not see any cuts at all. The celling in the cabin is in very nice shape, a coat of paint and it is done. I then went out side to test all the lights, lol the bow light worked that is all. In the cockpit i made a list of the gages Depth, hour,temp, RPM, AMP,Oil and speed none have been tested. The Compass was not onboard, being ship along with a few other thing. One thing that was not listed in the add of the boat was an Auto helm at this time I do not know if it works. Sails Jib roller furling 2001, Main 2007 2 Reef points (never used) sail covers. Ropes top side look old, replacement ropes below. 10 of the 12 Cleats are Teak wood and need to be replaced. 4 Winches, working fine, as for the rest of the rigging I plan to have a pro look at it all. Ok for a run down, I plan to have a lot of work did but I would like to do as much or it as I can myself, as for the motor I will have a pro take care of it. I talk to a man $85 an hour and about 8 hours of work is what he thinks on it. I am not sure yet if I should just go ahead and replace the motor? I plan to pay the yard to paint the bottom, Just because I am lazy. I plan to rewire the cabin and all lights myself (not motor) Drain and clean tanks myself. Have pro do ice box and A/C unit. There is no Bimini so I do not know if I will make it or have done. Well i think that is a good start, I knew this would be a fixer up when i got the boat and feel like i got a good buy on it at the price, Right now i am thinking i have around $5,000 to $7,000 in repairs. Do you think that i am in the ball park with that range? Thank you, John

MMNETSEA 06-07-2008 06:39 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnar (Post 22451)
Hello All, Well i just return from spending a few days on the boat to survey what all work needs to be done, boy do i have a list. I knew this would be a fixer up when i got the boat and feel like i got a good buy on it at the price, Right now i am thinking i have around $5,000 to $7,000 in repairs. Do you think that i am in the ball park with that range? Thank you, John

Hi John,

First to comment that the Morgan Out Island is acknowledged as a very good cruising boat - very strong - with its shallow draft,can go most places. Its prop well protected - skeg hung rudder.

I guess that you have checked the Morgan out yourself, rather than getting a surveyor to give you a full condition report ?

Survey Check List

Keeping in Mind that you have a good 30 year old sailboat

John, you seem to have covered quite a lot in your initial check of the boat - however what is not mentioned may be very important in terms of labour, repair, materials and component replacement costs. How about items such as :-

The Hull, This will need some non-destructive testing for any signs

of blistering and/or delamination.

The Rudder, the stock - bearings.

The Steering connected to the rudder.

The Spars.

Transmission under load

Prop shaft and cutlass bearing

Ground Tackle and Windlass

The Head

The Sinks

The Through Hull fittings and Sea Cocks

"33 FT. Morgan O.I. 1979 Perkins 50Hp. 4108. The motor was checked two weeks ago, it started and was run about 15 minutes off a jerry can, Has a leak that i could not locate around the back of the oil pan. All i really cared was it start."

Have a look at the engine pictured here :- Attachment 487

What you see is an engine that has been neglected - rust discolouration from salt water escaping from the heat exchanger or hoses/pipe fittings. Old oil collected in the engine bilge from leaks. Signs of engine overheating. Ply delaminating.

What was the condition of the transmission? Engine mounts and bearers? Did the engine have its own starting battery? What amperage was produced by the alternator ? What condition was the exhaust mixing elbow? Exhaust water good?

The Perkins 50Hp engine required plenty RPM to provide max hull speed (the shaft HP is rated at only 26HP) To Rebuild will cost around $8,000. If you contemplate re-engining then go for a naturally aspirated industrial engine that will produce 35/40HP at the prop shaft At around 2,000 RPM.

Prop turn both ways with no strange sounds. ?? How was this turned ?

The boat has a wheel tiller, when the wheel was turn the rudder did not move, the wheel turn free and easy, when i looked below there is a cable broke.

Did rudder move when moved by hand outside the boat?

Ok for a run down, I plan to have a lot of work did but I would like to do as much or it as I can myself.

Work and repairs to be farmed out :-

I plan to have a pro look at all the rest of the rigging

I will have a pro take care of the motor. I talk to a man $85 an hour and about 8 hours of work is what he thinks on it. I am not sure yet if I should just go ahead and replace the motor?

I plan to pay the yard to paint the bottom, Just because I am lazy.

Plan for a pro do ice box and A/C unit.

There is no Bimini so I do not know if I will make it or have done.


Well i think that is a good start,

I knew this would be a fixer up when i got the boat and feel like i got a good buy on it at the price, Right now i am thinking i have around $5,000 to $7,000 in repairs. Do you think that i am in the ball park with that range?


If you have to re-engine and farm out some important work - I estimate that you will be looking at close to around no less than $20, 000 to bring this boat up to a standard that will allow you to go cruising comfortably.

Richard


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