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Old 09-12-2010, 08:35 PM   #1
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"They didn't have a VHF radio. They didn't have an emergency position indicating radio beacon ... that can pinpoint the location of a distress when a boat sinks. There was no signaling flares, nothing," .... Full CNN report - HERE
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Old 09-14-2010, 08:27 AM   #2
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Thanks,

Once again pointing out that there is a need to have proper equipment with you even on short rips out. Thank you very much. I would bump this every once and a while so newbies to boating can get an idea how important the basic equipment really is. These folk are very very lucky to be alive.

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Old 09-14-2010, 10:34 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse View Post

"They didn't have a VHF radio. They didn't have an emergency position indicating radio beacon ... that can pinpoint the location of a distress when a boat sinks. There was no signaling flares, nothing," .... Full CNN report - HERE
Lighthouse aka 'Bright-eye'. Thanks for the 'post' - Great subject !!! I followed the 'here' thread & spent quite some time chasing all the windows I could. Geees-mate & everyone, - - what's going on in North America???? There were over 20 such reports involving 40 or more people who's lives were in danger let alone the 'rescuer's' who's lives were also put into jeopardy through no doing of their own & I only went into 1/2 the 'news' items. Seems to me the the 'general boating public' should have some positive, pro-active, informative steps put into mandatory practice as a condition of obtaining their 'boating licence' &/or permit to operate. Surely the people in charge, with the proper legislation can find a way to help the inexperienced to help & protect themselves & save lives. I wonder if collectively - we here in WC&SF might be able to devise a comprehensive 'short list' of recommendation?. Surely with all of us involved (putting our - 'paddles to the task') - we have the experience, knowledge, invested active time on the waters of the worlds oceans to be able to make-up a 'short list' - - that is if we have the will to make the effort. Might just be a worthwhile matter to 'hang-our-hats-on' - - that is we helped frame a better, constructive, practical, pro-active working model that helped save lives. One day it might just save one of our own people. I personally like the sounds of that. Come on everyone, let us hear what each & everyone of you think, Please. That is of course if our moderators feel it is worth the effort, hard work & pain. I for one will always follow very respectfully the moderators wise & long-sighted guidance & advice.

PS Another subject - Sure hope 'S/V Trim' find their missing friend (friends are hard to find, scarce on the ground/water & totally impossible to replace) & keep us 'in-the-loop'. That damaged leg Kim had was bad & will take quite some time to heal completely. Am sure there are many here that have some concern about his well-being. Ciao, for down-under - from the 'Silver Raven'(ed) - 'geri-hat-trick' , james - "Every reality begins with a dream"& I'm chasing mine, YES !! Good winds to all.
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Old 09-14-2010, 12:10 PM   #4
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James,

You would think so. Problem, if you register your boat with the state your reside and the boat is not registered or certified to go off shore and the owners states that will not be used for that purpose, than the state just sees it as income in the form of fees and permits. Which the Federal government or the Coast Guard (seriously underpowered and undermanned) don't have the ability to check and enforce. So you end up with folks getting into conditions that they should not be in. I agree that the boating and cruising section of society needs to take this in hand much the way that SCUBA did (and we can learn from their mistakes). My home state of Michigan had at one time a permit program that required certain equipment to be on any boat on any body of water; I don't know if that law is still on the books.

Like I said at first, thanks for posting it Lighthouse and hopefully more folks will learn. Not that I sure of it, but one can and must hope for the better (how else can you arrive there if not by setting ones sights upon it).

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Old 09-14-2010, 01:23 PM   #5
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Post Note: CNN is spinning the article it seems as the local paper and a few local news sources point out that they had safety equipment and radio equipment on board BUT that it was not fully secured and the boat was washed over by a wave. The local articles also point out that the person in charge of that boat had asked the harbor master if the there was any advisories out. They had radio and lost it while being swamped and dealing with failure of the the engine and flooding of the engine compartment. Now with the fact that the two adults kept everyone afloat and together near the partly sunken boat and had tried to contact the Coast Guard with a Mayday brings a bit more light to the story.

Are there lessons to be learned yes and even the family admits that. Did they survive in a position many would not have (20 hours in the Sea is not easy on anyone) yes and I count that as a blessing and they have stated they have learned from this and there is some question on the report that the harbor master had and certain of the system that where built on the boat that failed. We shall see, but the main lesson is know where you safety equipment is and make sure everyone knows how to use and how deal with an emergency.

Also NEVER trust the main stream media to tell the whole truth. They make the most of their money of half truth and innuendo.

Michael
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Old 09-14-2010, 01:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
I wonder if collectively - we here in WC&SF might be able to devise a comprehensive 'short list' of recommendation?. Surely with all of us involved (putting our - 'paddles to the task') - we have the experience, knowledge, invested active time on the waters of the worlds oceans to be able to make-up a 'short list' - - that is if we have the will to make the effort. Might just be a worthwhile matter to 'hang-our-hats-on' - - that is we helped frame a better, constructive, practical, pro-active working model that helped save lives. One day it might just save one of our own people. I personally like the sounds of that. Come on everyone, let us hear what each & everyone of you think,
Hi James. This is why we developed the World Cruiising and Sailing Wiki - so that everyone could contribute to articles that will remain easily accessible to all.

See the Table of Contents of our Wiki - HERE (see near the bottom of the contents list)
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:43 PM   #7
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Great idea, Jim. However, you are making the assumption that all these yahoos going out on their little boats know how to read and have a minimum of common sense. Bad assumption. And the most blatantly stupid boat operators do not frequent boating forums or are even remotely interested in being educated on the proper way to operate their boat. We have two friends who are both very bright, financially successful men, who are so stupid with their boats that I won't go out on their boats. And they are almost militant in their refusal to hear about how they should behave.

More and more states in the US are putting requirements for boat operator's licenses into place. However, something that the rest of the world does not understand about the US is that people here hold "state's rights" sacred. In general, the Federal government enacts broad-based laws that usually offer a minimum level of protection or regulation. Each state has the right to effect more stringent laws if they see the need. And some states aren't that happy with the minimum levels of regulations federally enacted.

Never mind that the majority of regulations are in place to protect people, there is a significant minority who will reject them on the grounds of personal liberty. Mandatory helmets for motorcycle riders, for example. Automobile speed limits is another. Just because evidence proves that helmets save lives, there are still states where they are not mandatory. Just because "speed kills" has been the mantra for decades, there are still states that are proud that they have no, or very few, motor vehicle speed limits. Seat Belts, for goodness' sake!

Those 9 people abandoned their sinking boat. Though there is no way of proving it, I would venture a guess that the owner knew so little about the function and operation of his boat that a simple problem that was eminently fixable was beyond their knowledge and capabilities. I assume (perhaps wrongly) that even if they had had PFDs, EPIRB, VHF, they would have lost the boat and would have had to be rescued. Same issue as actually occured, but with better odds of survival.

Have you gotten the idea that this is one of those sore spots with me? It frustrates me no end that people would take on risky behavior without knowing anything about those risks. Marina professionals will tell you about the clearly unsafe behavior they see and the arguments that go on with the perpetrators when their foolish behavior is brought to their attention.

But this is not only a U.S. problem. I have seen this clueless behavior in just about every developed country we've visited. Forums such as CL might be able to help, but people have to want to learn, and that's not always the reality. As in the old clichẻ, "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."
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Old 09-15-2010, 01:40 AM   #8
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Hi Guys,

I actually stopped sailing for nearly ten years after a stint of more than twenty rescues in 4 months on the warship I was serving on. One imparticular involved two guys taking a 30 foot yacht out of a harbour in winds exceeding 35 knots. To add to this, the boats electrical systems were known to be faulty and the alternator was not charging the system in their words"properly", which really meant not at all. Myself, and two of my sail trained crew had to enter the water to board this vessel which in the conditions was pretty frightening. These individuals had a careless disregard for our safety and actually tried to remove us once I made the decision that the vessel be scuttled as it would constitute a danger to other vessels should it be allowed to float away to sink.

This behaviour took me away from boating other than my service. it was only about 10 years ago i began sailing again and even then it took me a while to venture offshore. and my partner will attest to my almost zealot attitude to safety, both vessel and personal.

I cringe when I read about these people actually being allowed to own a boat, let alone use it. In Qld and in fact most states now, you are required to hold a recreational boat licence which in real terms is a powerboat licence.

The only failing with this system in my opinion is there is no procedure for docking a boat which is a serious flaw in the system as there are more incidents at jetties or boat ramps becuase these people believe tehy are trained no.

My two cents only

Cheers

Rob & Annette

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