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Old 08-05-2007, 07:57 AM   #29
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Welcome back Daytrader.

Good to see you managed to get your boat into the water at last. How did you make out with the docking lines and fenders?

Just a word of caution about your economy. Miles per gallon is a term which means nothing in a boat. If you are going with wind and tide, you may get 3 miles per gallon; going against wind and tide that figure may well drop to half a mile per two gallons. The only language marine economists know is gallons per hour worked out in conjuction with your engine hour meter and running your boat in typical conditions over a prolonged period of time.

If your mechanic is talking miles per gallon, I would think it very strange indeed.

On additives to anti fouling: We are concerned with what works in paints which are very expensive. We are hoping to get positive feedback from yachtsmen who have done the experiments so that we don't repeat mistakes or destroy expensive bottom jobs. Broad speculative statements are of little practical use.

Just a brief environmental note on antifouling paints. 500+ tonners which use very potent anti fouling are generally not moored in creeks and tributaries. A large number of small yachts with highly potent anti fouling which do moor in those areas, could cause great damage to populations of juvenile creatures in what are the planet's marine nurseries. For instance, Tri Butyl Tin is still used in antifouling for big ships, but it's effects on oyster beds in close proximity to moored recreational craft went very close to destroying an oyster industry in Australia's New South Wales, before its use for small boats was banned.

Cheers

David.
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:05 AM   #30
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One thing I know NOTHING about is anti fouling. I really do not. I do not have the experiance many of you do. I was just adding a paint side to the effect.

yes, we got her and are having a great time. We are 12 miles out now and have been for the last 2 days. We will motor in tomarrow as we will fly out to get back to work for Monday.

While I understand many of the terms and measures you may use in sailing. MANY OF THEM ARE WRONG.

You are right with MPG nad KPG not being real indicaters of fuel comsumption. Hours is even a worse measure. Captains logs are more to my liking.

Air bumps or tabs are very common on air planes. They ware out and cause the craft to be unstrable and can effect fuel to a 50% increase per hour. They ware down from the high wind draft and speeds.

By pass oil filtration has been around a very long time. Just it gets almost no cause as buying oil is a very profitable sense.

Many folks do not know. Most oil dosn't ware out. It gets dirty.
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:12 AM   #31
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http://www.airtab.com/

These are like the air bumps we have but they are much larger. The ones on our plane are small and screw on at 220 each. I do not see why somthing like this would not work on a sail boat well. It is such a simple thing that most think is snake oil.

The first thing any Air Frame tech checks when a pilot complains about tail swish or bad handling is the air bumbs or air tabs.

Like most things. Folks will look at it and think how it may work. Most will never try anything new. Ince the guy next door dose it. Then they will give it a try.
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:19 AM   #32
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http://oilpursys.com/ This is the system we had installed on the boat. We run it on all our trucks and are very happy with it.

http://www.gulfcoastfilters.com/ These folks have been around a long time and the Navy uses them in some forms.

I just do not like the filter replacment cost and the fact that adding 2.5 gallons of oil every filter change is like changing the oil every 5 times.

http://www.schaefferoil.com/ This is the ONLY oil I will use. I have for a long time and it has been great. Every engine and turbine I have owned has been well lubbed with this.

Anyone looking to give it a try. Let me give you my sells reps number as he is a great down home country boy. I GET NOTHING out of it, but know he will service you well.
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Old 08-05-2007, 09:38 AM   #33
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Breaux Brothers Enterprises, Inc.

Breaux Brothers Enterprises, Inc. in New Iberia Louisiana has been building offshore workboats for over 20 years. Many of their 3.5 million dollar boats have been specified with Gulf Coast Filters.
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Old 08-05-2007, 10:14 AM   #34
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Now I'm totally confused!

Which of the terms that sailors, over lifetimes, have determined to be the best and most suited to their purpose are wrong? How do you propose to use the Captain's log to determine economy?

What most cruising sailors do, is log the fuel used, log the amount of hours the engine has been running, divide one by the other, then log the result. Over time and by consulting the log a pattern develops which allows the skipper to predict the amount of fuel he will need, to motor for a given number of hours.

When he is then motoring, he can determine his speed over ground for the prevailing conditions and thus calculate what his forecast position will be for the consumption of a given amount of fuel.

Considering the variables, such as set and drift, and sea state, it appears to me there is no way of more effectively determining fuel consumption.

Hope you catch lots of fish.

Cheers

David
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Old 08-05-2007, 10:30 AM   #35
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Hi Daytrader, I'm not much of a techo geek, but I'm super impressed that you can surf the internet and make lengthy posts here, from 12 miles offshore. What sort of gear are you using to connect to the internet from out there?
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Old 08-05-2007, 10:52 AM   #36
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We are drifting off the topic here somewhat. With respect to the original poster of this topic (a very interesting topic indeed) please start a new topic with a new topic title if a post is not directly related to the thread. Please do not "hijack" someone else's topic title. The "irrelevent" posts are lost anyway if visitors are not interested to read the particular topic TITLE'S content.

In order to keep the threads as orderly as possible.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:07 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzee View Post
Now I'm totally confused!

Which of the terms that sailors, over lifetimes, have determined to be the best and most suited to their purpose are wrong? How do you propose to use the Captain's log to determine economy?

What most cruising sailors do, is log the fuel used, log the amount of hours the engine has been running, divide one by the other, then log the result. Over time and by consulting the log a pattern develops which allows the skipper to predict the amount of fuel he will need, to motor for a given number of hours.

When he is then motoring, he can determine his speed over ground for the prevailing conditions and thus calculate what his forecast position will be for the consumption of a given amount of fuel.

Considering the variables, such as set and drift, and sea state, it appears to me there is no way of more effectively determining fuel consumption.

Hope you catch lots of fish.

Cheers

David
That seems to be the way I range fuel as well. Maybe sailers do it the same. I may have been wrong. Hour usage is down and out at I burn the same amount of fuel at idle as I do flying 500 MPH. The captains log shows ALL pounds of fuel put on and all maintance. There is an area to figure hour usage and milage. NOT knots. Conditions for the trip are noted to help give feed back. So heavy wind or cast will add to fuel burn rates. I would think they are the same in the water.
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Old 08-05-2007, 11:14 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yidaki View Post
Hi Daytrader, I'm not much of a techo geek, but I'm super impressed that you can surf the internet and make lengthy posts here, from 12 miles offshore. What sort of gear are you using to connect to the internet from out there?
We use a Garmin WIFI 2280 card in the lap top with a Sprint card for inland use.

At 12 miles out we still have Sprint service. It is spotty. The cell phones do not work, but the wirless card dose.

I guess I better be nice. I do not mean to Hijack a person post, but how are you to answer questions other wise?

Got time get you Ham Lic askme how... KC9CFX here
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:25 AM   #39
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I don't follow daytrader in his point that you have to hijack a thread to answer a question when it has nothing to do with the thread anyhow!! The thread was started about adding to anti fouling paint; the administrator took the time to point this out when it got waylayed to oils, jet engines, fuel consumpsion rates and other such; sadly his point was ignored.

Hopefully those that wish to discuss ideas will start their own threads and not have them interfered with.

On a positive note Bedouin has now been back in the water about 10 weeks with still nothing so much as sediment on the hull but a healthy growth of periwinkles on the prop which I cleaned and left unpainted. I figure it has been a very worthwhile experiment and that it has worked with little extra cost which if it lasts the life of the paint will more than be justified.

Regards

Peter
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Old 08-10-2007, 10:34 AM   #40
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@Bedouin

Thank you for the update - please keep us informed.

I am very happy that this thread is back on TOPIC.
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Old 08-11-2007, 04:37 AM   #41
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Quote:
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@Bedouin

Thank you for the update - please keep us informed.

I am very happy that this thread is back on TOPIC.
Bedouin Peter,

Thanks for approval of the Capsicum - I see that the extract from a species is the subject of a patent to add to anti-fouling , check out :-

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5397385.html

Richard

PS

If you want some seeds of the HOTTEST species ( Thai call them Kee Nok = bird droppings)

drop me a PM with your address and I will send - easy to grow - can also spice up your cooking.
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:30 AM   #42
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No I wasn't on about R&D; what I was really on about was the way the thread had gone amiss.

Someone asked about adding copper to anti fouling. Im time past there was much more copper in anti fouling but with the price of copper these days the R&D guys decided that anti fouling didn't need as much - figure that out against logic!!! I'm not sure that copper would have done much for control of marine growth; and that seems to be the yachties grip about anti fouling paint.

MMNETSEA; I used curry and mustard powders, not capsicum and not heard of it being used. The 'old salties' in the past either used curry, mustard or chillie; or a mixture. The last I recall having seen it used was I guess 30 odd yaers back till I began the experimant first on Camel Dung; my tender and then on Bedouin. I had a guess at what seemed a reasonable ratio and from the results so far I think it pretty right. The growth of perriwinkles on the prop after 10 weeks was a very heavy full coverage and absolutely nothing on the hull. Where I'm now anchored I have had growth on new anti fouling in less time than that.

Regards

Peter
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