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Old 12-12-2008, 06:21 AM   #1
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Looking to hear from any fellow salties who have deployed a sea parachute anchor from a vessel with a bowsprit with either a rod or chain bumpkin post.

Currently doing the last final provisioning for our trip out into the blue and having just placed an order for the parachute, we are keen to hear of any real experiences.

Met a couple of UK vessels (no bowsprits) that ran their bridle straight through their anchor rollers and then had it come back along the outside of the toe rail (cable tied to the stanchions) with the swivel end then leading back into the cockpit. The idea being that in a blow, they could simply attach the para anchor and rode to this and launch from the stern. Makes a lot of sense to us as we don't want to be launching from the bow in heavy seas and run the risk of getting hooked up in the rode. The manufacturer recommends this deployment also.

Having a bowsprit we are opting for two lengths of chain over our sampson post (padded) and running out through either fairlead connected to a 20mm spectra bridle joined to a swivel about 10m ahead of our bow. The 18mm rode then runs from this to the para anchor.

The chain will run inside a couple of hefty pieces of PVC hose as they pass through the fairleads to reduce chaffing.

Unfortunately our sampson post is well forward of the fairleads which makes for a pretty acute angle - to ease this we are also looking at attaching lines to the chains, midway between the post and the fairleads and then running them back down either side to attach to the stern bollards - much the same way as you would set up your vessel for towing.

While I have viewed the archives on para anchors - there was no discussion on potential damage to a bowsprit or bumpkin post - hence our interest in experiences from any who have had a similar set up.

Fair winds.
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File Type: jpg Mico_Bowsprit_1.jpg (72.1 KB, 131 views)
File Type: jpg Mico_Bowsprit_7.jpg (69.9 KB, 96 views)
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:58 PM   #2
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Looking to hear from any fellow salties who have deployed a sea parachute anchor from a vessel with a bowsprit with either a rod or chain bumpkin post.
Sorry, seems your pics are small on my system--won't blow up large enough if I click on them.

Even so, I see your issue with the Samson post. The angle is certainly, um, wrong for using the fairleads. Is this a traditional Samson post that goes down to the stem-knee or keel (as they do in older wooden boats) or is it simply bolted thru the deck?

If thru-deck, you're not taking advantage of the bene's of the old-style post and you might just consider adding another post (with proper blocking under the deck) or a serious cleat (similarly installed) further aft on your deck to better suit your purposes.

Have you considered that?
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:08 PM   #3
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Sorry, seems your pics are small on my system--won't blow up large enough if I click on them.

Even so, I see your issue with the Samson post. The angle is certainly, um, wrong for using the fairleads. Is this a traditional Samson post that goes down to the stem-knee or keel (as they do in older wooden boats) or is it simply bolted thru the deck?

If thru-deck, you're not taking advantage of the bene's of the old-style post and you might just consider adding another post (with proper blocking under the deck) or a serious cleat (similarly installed) further aft on your deck to better suit your purposes.

Have you considered that?
Hi,

We have an Alan Atkins Alajuela 36' Cutter.

The post is the traditional design in that it goes right down to the stem knee so the option of installing another post is not really viable.

By running sheets back down the deck to the stern cleats from midway along the chain leads we can lessen the angle through the fairlead. Mind you, our hull is hand laid and a good 1 1/4" thick with a heavy cast fairlead eye so we are less concerned about wear and stress in this area, especially if the chain is heavily padded as it runs through.

I've attached another pic and we appreciate your response.

I do notice that it states the maximum 'single' upload is 160k but when we have tried to upload more than one pic at say 95k we keep getting an error message saying the total files sizes are too large - hence the small pics you saw.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:05 PM   #4
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I do notice that it states the maximum 'single' upload is 160k but when we have tried to upload more than one pic at say 95k we keep getting an error message saying the total files sizes are too large - hence the small pics you saw.
Limits increased.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:11 PM   #5
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Your Quote " Having a bowsprit we are opting for two lengths of chain over our sampson post (padded) and running out through either fairlead connected to a 20mm spectra bridle joined to a swivel about 10m ahead of our bow. The 18mm rode then runs from this to the para anchor.

The chain will run inside a couple of hefty pieces of PVC hose as they pass through the fairleads to reduce chaffing. "


Hello Mico,

Questions :- why the option of chain ? Why not 18mm rode ?

Have also seen on multihulls the insertion of a small tyre (say 400 x10") in the system ahead of the swivel, this acts as shock absorber.

Richard
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Old 12-12-2008, 10:12 PM   #6
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Your Quote " Having a bowsprit ...."

Hello Mico,

Questions :- why the option of chain ? Why not 18mm rode ?
Hi Richard,

Most yachts we have come across this last year have opted for padded chain from the anchoring point on the vessel out the fairlead or through the bow roller attaching to the rode clear of the bow. The chain basically forms the first part of the bridle. This is all new to us but the argument seems to be that this lessens the chances of the rode being chaffed and ultimately broken by contact with any bow protrusion or fitting. I can certainly see the merit in this when leading out through the bow roller. While I appreciate that it is imperative to constantly keep an eye out for signs of chaffing when a para anchor is deployed everyone seems to be of the opinion that rode will give long before chain.

Call me paranoid but in all the yachts we have owned, built or outfitted we have always opted for over-engineering everything and back up systems where ever possible.

You'd be surprised at the negative comments we received in Darwin marina to the fact we were carrying 70m of 8mm chain with a Sarca anchor two sizes up from the recommended weight on our 25' sloop we sailed across the top.

Mind you, getting caught on a lee shore at 2am opposite Melville Island by an unexpected storm with winds gusting to 60kts a few days later - I can certainly confirm we were awfully glad of our anal retentiveness! 70m of chain disappearing horizontally into the darkness and a massive swell is not something I would wish readily on anyone.

It's all a learning curve isn't it, and we are really appreciative of the advice and support from everyone in this forum.

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Old 12-14-2008, 05:37 PM   #7
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I'm still more concerned about your, um....interesting geometry. That whole samson post location just doesn't work for me.

In the tiny little first picture, I can't see your anchor windlass but assume it must be vertical and somehow be in there forward of that post. By the way, you can link to a picture that you post on a free hosting site like Flickr. That's what I do and then folks can see a little image here and a bigger one by clicking on a link.

Example of pic posted on Flickr, this one is when David was recently cutting the holes in the bulwarks for our hawse pipes. Note how close to the stem/bowsprit these pipes are. Their spacing is to accommodate a fair lead back to the wildcat and gypsy located on each side of the horizonal windlass. You can click on this link here for a much larger image of the same picture.



The use of a picture hosting site allows more flexibility for posting large images without taking up the bandwidth of the Cruiser Log forums win-win.

Our hawse pipes are so very close to the stem that using them with a bridle does very little to prevent the chains one would use for a drogue from perhaps rubbing against our bobstay. Our sprit goes way forward 10 ft, so the bobstay is at risk sometimes. Unlike bobstays on most boats, since our bowsprit can "ship" (move inboard for storing in tight marina berths), the stay is not fixed, so it can be pulled up out of the way of harm, and if one isn't using the jib but instead using the stem mounted staysail for a storm sail, having the bobstay pulled up out of the way is fine.

I still keep thinking that perhaps you have a good structural way to place another strong cleat on deck thru-bolted and backed below deck in such a way to have better fair lead for your hawses. Or, I wonder if your hawses can be relocated to be closer to your bowsprit? Its a thought...
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:44 PM   #8
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I just went and looked at your larger pic--and see that you have what I call a "bi-pod" bowsprit similar to the design of many boomkin (bumkin) on the back of boats. I suppose this is why your hawse pipes are so far aft.

Is it possible that your windlass is also further aft and not in the pic? If so, can you just use a bollard on your windlass?

Regards,

Brenda
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:38 PM   #9
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I just went and looked at your larger pic--and see that you have what I call a "bi-pod" bowsprit similar to the design of many boomkin (bumkin) on the back of boats. I suppose this is why your hawse pipes are so far aft.

Is it possible that your windlass is also further aft and not in the pic? If so, can you just use a bollard on your windlass?

Regards,

Brenda
Hi,

No, the windlass is forward of the sampson post and sits between it and the bowsprit.

We've just received our parasea anchor and have finished fabricating some bridles. 10mm s/s chain enclosed in kevlar sleeves which are then enclosed in 5mm walled PVC reenforced tubing. It runs out either hawser and past the bowsprit to attach to another 10m of 22m sleeved rode and then onto the 150' of line to the parachute. Only problem with all that is the fact we found out that the sampson post did not run down to the keel as per the builders drawings but rather sits atop the anchor locker with some timber beading to hide the fact that it was a disaster waiting to happen. Have ripped all of that out now and installed a solid post down to the keel. It's delayed our departure by a week but we're glad we found out in the pen and not on the high seas. Now we're just waiting for a cat 3 cyclone to pass before we finish the provisioning and slip in behind it to head south. - All good fun
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:48 AM   #10
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Now we're just waiting for a cat 3 cyclone to pass before we finish the provisioning and slip in behind it to head south. - All good fun
P ,

CYCLONE HAMISH 90 Knots gusting 110 by tomorrow evening !!! Consider leaving only when Hamish is really far away or has moved inland.

Richard
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Old 03-06-2009, 06:31 AM   #11
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Consider leaving only when Hamish is really far away or has moved inland.

Richard
If it was me I would be waiting until the end of the Qland cyclone season before I ventured far from home....
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Old 03-06-2009, 06:31 AM   #12
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Well, I don't think we'll be tailgating it. Bucketing down here at the moment so we'll be staying put for a while.
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Old 03-06-2009, 03:58 PM   #13
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Well, I don't think we'll be tailgating it. Bucketing down here at the moment so we'll be staying put for a while.
I've said it before--you're having all the fun and excitement!
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