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Old 11-23-2010, 10:44 AM   #1
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How is it possible for a country the size of the Seychelles to find, to locate, to overpower Somali pirates, rescue Seychelle citizens unharmed, take the pirates into custody to be charged with piracy on the high seas, (for the SECOND time) WHEN the most powerful conglomeration of naval power on the planet is shown to be helpless and useless (without intestinal fortitude !!) to stop the kidnapping of over 550 CURRENTlY HELD hostages from ships originating from every corner of the earth.

Here is the story G U T S
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Old 11-23-2010, 12:50 PM   #2
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Well done the Seychelles!
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Old 11-24-2010, 01:37 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post

How is it possible for a country the size of the Seychelles to find, to locate, to overpower Somali pirates, rescue Seychelle citizens unharmed, take the pirates into custody to be charged with piracy on the high seas, (for the SECOND time) WHEN the most powerful conglomeration of naval power on the planet is shown to be helpless and useless (without intestinal fortitude !!) to stop the kidnapping of over 550 CURRENTlY HELD hostages from ships originating from every corner of the earth.

Here is the story G U T S
We have Obama. We had Bush. We have absurd rules of engagement. That pretty much covers the waterfront.

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Old 11-24-2010, 08:40 AM   #4
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We have Obama. We had Bush. We have absurd rules of engagement. That pretty much covers the waterfront.
Roger, could I ask what the 'rules' would be if for example if :-

One afternoon in Dallas TX, a gang armed with automatic weapons entered a bank and took employees as hostages, then demanding a ransom for their release.
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Old 11-24-2010, 04:22 PM   #5
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Roger, could I ask what the 'rules' would be if for example if :-

One afternoon in Dallas TX, a gang armed with automatic weapons entered a bank and took employees as hostages, then demanding a ransom for their release.
Well, for sure it wouldn't be Mexico armed forces coming in to free the hostages.

I don't think that was an appropriate analogy.
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Old 11-24-2010, 11:47 PM   #6
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Well, for sure it wouldn't be Mexico armed forces coming in to free the hostages.

I don't think that was an appropriate analogy.
Why not ? It was a question following a post referring to US rules of engagement and the current and previous president.
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Old 11-25-2010, 08:40 AM   #7
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There is a long established right; and, indeed, duty (HSC, art. 14 & LOSC, art. 100), of every state to act against piracy.This exception to the rules of the LOSC (Law of the Seas Convention)with regards to jurisdiction on the high seas arose from the common interest of European nations in protecting their fleets that were the lifelines of their trade and their colonial empires (Ref. T.A. Walker A History of the Law of Nations)

With regard to the incident above in which the Seychellois coast-guard vessel apprehended the pirates, the vessels were on the high seas. However, most acts of piracy actually take place within territorial sea and therefore are not, as a matter of international law, piracy. Thus, Coalition forces have no right enshrined in law to act in such cases. They may act, however, if sanctioned by the coastal state in which the act takes place.

Concerning acts of piracy on the high seas, i.e. those waters which form neither the territorial waters or other waters over which a coastal state exercises its jurisdiction (EEZ or Exclusive Economic Zone), article 22 of the High Seas Convention (HSC) purports to codify the customary law concerning the high seas, and article 110 of LOSC permit the visiting and boarding of any ship, of whatever flag, reasonably suspected as being engaged in piracy. Pirate ships on the high seas may be seized (HSC, art. 19 & LOSC art. 105), though only by clearly marked warships or aircraft or other authorised vessels on government service. Pirates may be tried by any State before whose courts they are brought, and that State may determine by its laws the penalties to be imposed (HSC, art. 19 & LOSC, Art. 105).

There are thus two fundamental issues facing any warship discovering potential acts of piracy on the high seas. Firstly, even though the warship has a right to act, examine and detain pirates they will be governed by their own rules of engagement. Secondly, and this may well be the primary hinder to the successful outcome of anti-piracy actions, they will have to bring the pirates before a court. In the past, Kenya has been willing to try pirates but this willingness has dried up and so a Coalition warship apprehending pirates on the high seas will, as likely as not, have to bring the said pirates before a court in their own country. Having regard to the origin of the pirates, any sanctions imposed by European or North American courts are likely to be seen as a paid holiday providing the pirates with the best accommodation they probably have had, three square meals a day and the opportunity to learn job skills or even gain higher education. When released, they will not be deported to a non-functioning State and will, as sure as eggs are eggs, apply for refugee status.

I am the first to agree that these people should be shot out of the water but, as long as this world is populated by tree-huggers and other do-gooders who scream blue murder as soon as common sense rather than political correctness is allowed to reign, the Coalition forces are acting with their hands tied behind their backs.

Don't blame the guys out there - blame our politicians!

Aye // Stephen
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Old 11-25-2010, 12:11 PM   #8
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Dutch Navy Arrest Pirates --- 25 Nov report :---

C L I C K
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:51 PM   #9
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Just read this article in the NY Times about 5 Somalis pirates convicted by a US court. A good beginning!
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