Hijacked Captain Dies Of Gunshot Wounds

[gslabbert5119]

BBC is reporting that the Captain of the MV Theresa VIII died of his gunshots wounds after his ship was hijacked 180 miles Northwest of the Seychelles.

Link Here

Also in the article it mentions that the US flagged "MV Maersk Alabama" was attacked for a 2nd time. If you recall the captain of this ship was rescued by Navy Seals during the last attempt. This may be the first instance of a ship being hijacked multiple times.

When will this ever end...

[twomt]

maybe folks might wait for the report to actually be confirmed by someone other than the Samoli mouth piece? the news boys are again reporting rumor and no fact.

[MMNETSEA]

Ernie,

Unfortunately there is no one else who could report. In fact, the reports to news agencies coming from "Unofficial Sources" over the past year re. events in Somalia and piracy have generally proven to be accurate at a later date.

Richard

[twomt]

I do understand that; but these folks have seldom killed anyone. having a rabid back lash before we see the bodies is not gonna help the matter.

its not going to help after, either. but then its kinda understandable.

[caribhal]

Originally Posted by twomt

I do understand that; but these folks have seldom killed anyone. having a rabid back lash before we see the bodies is not gonna help the matter.

its not going to help after, either. but then its kinda understandable.

I'm new to the board and trying to understand this response. Are you actually advocating withholding "rabid" responses about piracy on the high seas pending bodies washing ashore, or being paraded thru Mogudishu????

I fail to see how ANYTHING is gonna "help the matter" until someone gets tough out there on The Gulf of Aden with these scum. Maybe I'm overly sensitive about piracy...but it seems to me that being rabid about this issue is what's called for.

[shutterbug1972]

Originally Posted by caribhal

I'm new to the board and trying to understand this response. Are you actually advocating withholding "rabid" responses about piracy on the high seas pending bodies washing ashore, or being paraded thru Mogudishu????

I fail to see how ANYTHING is gonna "help the matter" until someone gets tough out there on The Gulf of Aden with these scum. Maybe I'm overly sensitive about piracy...but it seems to me that being rabid about this issue is what's called for.

I agree. Why have none of the ships carried weapons to defend themself? Maybe a few pirates boats blasted out of the water would discourage them. This is big business now, right? Got to make it too expensive for them. And the report of the two american sailboats that were attacked a couple years ago said that the pirates were blasting them with automaqtic weapons as the came near. doesn't sound like they are peaceful pirates to me.

[twomt]

Originally Posted by caribhal

I'm new to the board and trying to understand this response. Are you actually advocating withholding "rabid" responses about piracy on the high seas pending bodies washing ashore, or being paraded thru Mogudishu????

I fail to see how ANYTHING is gonna "help the matter" until someone gets tough out there on The Gulf of Aden with these scum. Maybe I'm overly sensitive about piracy...but it seems to me that being rabid about this issue is what's called for.

you think killing the lot of them is gonna solve anything? these people have so far run one of the nicest piracy rings in the world. they seldome kill or beat anyone and used to not shoot first.

You want real hard core piracy take a look at the south china sea where you dont get reports except via third parties. the first party is dead in the belly of a sunken ship. Keep killing these guys and they will respond the same way.

keep it civilized and things might be able to be worked out.

Oh i forget its better to shoot first and ask questions of the dead; they provide so much information that way.

[magwas]

Originally Posted by caribhal

I fail to see how ANYTHING is gonna "help the matter" until someone gets tough out there on The Gulf of Aden with these scum. Maybe I'm overly sensitive about piracy...but it seems to me that being rabid about this issue is what's called for.

It is some kind of solution, at least in the short term. And an understandable reaction. These guys DO work in life threatening ways and they ARE criminals.

However on the long run only improving the situation on the land would help. To make an environment which offers better and less risky alternatives than being a pirate. When they will have any other alternative, ending piracy on the tough way would be more acceptable and much easier.

Granted, sending out financial help and teaching them ways to live in their environment is much harder than just shooting them. And much less beneficial for arm dealers. Though I'm not convinced that shooting them is the cheaper solution even if we only take the financial loss due to ransoms, diverted routes, et al into account. (and what if o come up with a figure for suffering of crew kept in captivity, and the accidental deaths.)

[chiroeurope]

Problem

1) You are dealing with extremely corrupt governments in the region that are at war amongst themselves in many areas (doesn't hit the international news much but it is there).

2) Add into the mix extremists who will use any excuse to put their heel on somebody else's neck (the reasons are multi fold and go back centuries).

3) Than add multi national business (criminal and otherwise) dumping toxins into the waters in that area as there is not anyone to stop them.

4) Add to that a Cultural/Social mindset that is still very much at the tribal level.

5) Mix in the view that any one who has got in by being corrupt (very commonly taught mindset world wide)

6) With a dash of local celebrity/the in group to boot.

With that mix and the utter lack of any of the world powers to truly take on the problem at it's root causes (this includes all major players not just the US or the West) and we are where we are at now.

Once we are fully out there, seriously looking at the horn rather than the red sea if we go around that way and really not going any where near those waters. Most likely will hit Reunion and than take on enough fuel to make it all the way across and stop in the island group near the British Territory in the Southern Indian Ocean and just look at that area as a very long haul. Than again might stop at the shipping island in the British group and see if we can pick up some additional fuel there. It means going South of India. We will see how things are when/if that time comes and who we are sailing with at the time. There is also doing a science experiment with the kids dealing with magnetic fields that would give a pirate a very good reason to stay over 1km away from the boat (Gaussin fields are fun to play with).

But that digresses from the topic. therefore it is a good time to end this post.

Michael

[jerjacko]

Originally Posted by twomt

you think killing the lot of them is gonna solve anything? these people have so far run one of the nicest piracy rings in the world. they seldome kill or beat anyone and used to not shoot first.

Nice piracy rings? Is that like a good war or a compassionate beating? I think that organized crime is a pretty good description of their behavior, and so far they are being rewarded for their criminal acts.

So long as they receive millions of dollars per act of piracy, crime pays and pays a whole lot more than anything legal they will find anywhere near where they live. Upping the ante sounds good to me. Make the price of the ransom higher than the rewards and maybe it will stop, or at least slow down. Get their high-power weapons and speed boats away from them and maybe they'll have to find another way to make a living.

Then, when they don't have an easy way to make a living, it might be possible to address the political and social problems of their country to change the environment sufficiently. But I doubt it. Most of Africa doesn't seem ready to abandon tribalism and their selfish inability to help anyone outside their national borders.

[MMNETSEA]

If this principle (CLICK HERE) is applied to pirates who takes hostages at the point of a gun for the single purpose of enriching themselves,

would this not eventually solve the problem.

Do not many examples exist where SWAT teams have been brought in, to take out by deadly force bank robbers who have taken hostages in the commission of a robbery?

[magwas]

Originally Posted by jerjacko

[]

Get their high-power weapons and speed boats away from them and maybe they'll have to find another way to make a living.

[]

Then, when they don't have an easy way to make a living, it might be possible to address the political and social problems of their country to change the environment sufficiently. But I doubt it. Most of Africa doesn't seem ready to abandon tribalism and their selfish inability to help anyone outside their national borders.

I think the other way around. If they would have another way to make a living, they would not have ended up being pirates.

If you would carefully study the situation, you would be surprised at what extent they are prisoners of forces greater than them. Blaming africans for being exploited is a heavy misunderstanding of the situation.

[Coyote]

I'm sure those pirates are really just good boys who are misunderstood. If we send some Peace Corp people over there to teach them about sustainable coffee growing and respect for the earth, then sit around the camp fire sipping herbal tea and singing peace songs, we can eliminate the problem.

But, hey! If that doesn't work out after 20 or 50 years, can we finally realize that rewarding criminals just increases the number of criminals and that dead criminals have a lower rate of recidivism?

[magwas]

Originally Posted by Coyote

I'm sure those pirates are really just good boys who are misunderstood. If we send some Peace Corp people over there to teach them about sustainable coffee growing and respect for the earth, then sit around the camp fire sipping herbal tea and singing peace songs, we can eliminate the problem.

But, hey! If that doesn't work out after 20 or 50 years, can we finally realize that rewarding criminals just increases the number of criminals and that dead criminals have a lower rate of recidivism?

No, these pirate guys are criminals. And the ones which should be taught about growing edible crop (not coffe) are the ones who are not yet pirates. And when there IS an alternative for people there, the bad boys should be deterred from wrongdoing in the tough way. And in the meantime I still understand those who point a gun to them to an extent (but why would one go there in the first place?)

But just shooting them won't solve the problem. There are too many on the land who will become pirates because no alternative for them.

[twomt]

This is the problem as i see it.

1. the powers have permission to go in and dont. must be a reason.

2. i keep hearing folks scream about going on down a making war on these people but i dont see them doing it. must be someone else's job.

3. the only response from the powers has been when those with sufficient money have been bothered; if you are not one of those then the message is pretty clear that us little cruisers dont count.

4. this is a known trouble spot with an alternative route; there is no need for anyone to run through this area.

5. if no one goes through this area; including cargo ships there is no way for these folks to take ships. why are we confronting them when we can simply starve them out?

6. if you have an armored and armed boat stay in international waters and they are yours for the taking. they have a 200 mile EEZ just like the rest of the world.

If the cruiser community wants something done. the only way i can see anything happening is for them to hire folks who will go under the gun or pay off one of the three local navies who will provide escort through the area. yes three navies can be bought as escorts but sit around and do nothing to stop the piracy. Again you kinda have to wonder about that. you can be outraged all you want but the lack of anything that looks like you matter to the powers the be; make your outrage moot. it looks like diplomacy will have to win the day and that takes time.

[caribhal]

Originally Posted by magwas

I think the other way around. If they would have another way to make a living, they would not have ended up being pirates.

If you would carefully study the situation, you would be surprised at what extent they are prisoners of forces greater than them. Blaming africans for being exploited is a heavy misunderstanding of the situation.

Oh puhlease. Somolia has been without a functioning government for 18 years. LOTS of international agencies and governments have tried to help. What have they achieved? Dancing in the streets and dragging bodies around by the local populace.

I wonder at what point apologists for bad behavior stop blaming social ills, and just admit that sometimes people are just bad, and should be punished for what those people KNOW is bad behavior? If these pirates want to continue acting in completely unacceptable ways, let them do it within their own borders. Once you take to the high seas and victimize innocent yachtsmen and merchant shipping, you've crossed the line.

To believe that tolerating this behavior for a generation or two while the international community tries to resolve the region's internal problems is just, well, counterproductive. What this does is advocate giving them a free pass, because they have a tough life. Put your own family in one of those seized yachts, your parents and/or wife and children in the hands of these scumbags, and I'm betting your tolerant attitude changes VERY quickly. Pretty easy being tolerant from the cheap seats.

Even these poor, downtrodden individuals understand risk vs. reward. Bring enough force to bear - satellites, warships, patrol boats, etc. - so that more often than not, attacking international maritime traffic becomes an immediate death sentence, and they learn that the risk outweighs the rewards. End of problem.

By the way - yes, I've spent time in Africa, and know how difficult life can be there. I also know LOTS of Africans who choose not to turn to crime to survive.