Most Popular 34' - 36' Production Boats for Blue Water Cruising ?

[dokondr]

Hi all,
Please share your opinions on most popular today 34' - 36' production boats for blue water cruising ? The boats that can be sailed around the world by a couple or singlehandedly.

Thanks!

[HandyBilly]

What is putting you towards that size range? Have you been on a lot of different boats and find that most comfortable for some reason?

Lots of my favorite single-hander boats are smaller and favorite boats overall are bigger. But close to the sizes you're thinking about, the Tayana 37 and the Hans Christian 38 are nice.

You might consider an Alberg 35 if you can get hold of one. They're older classics but really nice.

LOA: 34′ 9″
LWL: 24′ 0″
Beam: 9′ 8″
Draft: 5′ 2″
Displacement: 12,600 lbs.
Ballast: 5,300 lbs. (lead encapsulated)
Sail Area, Sloop Rig: 545 sq. ft.
Sail Area, Yawl Rig: 583 sq. ft.
Fuel: 30 US Gal.
Water: 50 US Gal
Designer Carl Alberg
Builder: Pearson Yachts
Year Introduced: 1961
Year Ended: 1967
Also Known As: Pearson Alberg 35, A35

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by HandyBilly

What is putting you towards that size range? Have you been on a lot of different boats and find that most comfortable for some reason?

Lots of my favorite single-hander boats are smaller and favorite boats overall are bigger. But close to the sizes you're thinking about, the Tayana 37 and the Hans Christian 38 are nice.

You might consider an Alberg 35 if you can get hold of one. They're older classics but really nice.

Thanks for your reply. I sailed several boats of different sizes up to 43'. For me 34 - 36 ' is a reasonable comprise: still easy to singlehand and already big enough for a long cruise supplies (for a couple) and sails faster then smaller boats.
Yes, I know Alberg 35 - a nice boat, but quite old and may need a lot of work to get ready.
Most of all I am interested in boats with inside steering and inside engine control. These are not necessarily pilot house versions, but also boats with inside steering in a trunk cabin, these ones may have their own advantages.
Voyager 35 has inside steering:
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/...voyager-35.htm
Not sure though that Voyager 35 pilot house is strong enough to withstand big waves and capsize ...
Any info on boats with inside steering (except for Nauticat)?

[redbopeep]

While some boats may already come with what you desire, don't be disheartened if you find a boat without such systems as you may retrofit a desired boat with remote systems.

There are numerous ways to achieve inside steering and power control. Some are easily retrofitted to existing boats, others not. What is your preference of type of steering system?

Hydraulic steering readily allows for a second steering station to be installed in a point of choice in the boat.

Mechanical steering based on cable and quadrant also allows for second steering station to be installed but it is a little pickier about location of second station.

Mechanical system based on worm gear would be trickier and the second station would be chain and gear. More tricky to retrofit into a boat.

Finally, these days, any boat that has a (mechanical or hydraulic) autopilot would have the opportunity for inside steering simply by using a remote control with the autopilot itself. This is what we do. Our autopilot tether is quite long--we can steer from the bowsprit, up in the rigging, or inside if desired simply using the autopilot.

Second control on the engine--this is something which can be retrofitted into a boat which doesn't already have it. Engine control systems are cable driven, you just have to purchase one that is intended for two steering/power stations. The used parts chandlers often have old sets from recreational fishing boats, btw.

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

While some boats may already come with what you desire, don't be disheartened if you find a boat without such systems as you may retrofit a desired boat with remote systems.

There are numerous ways to achieve inside steering and power control. Some are easily retrofitted to existing boats, others not. What is your preference of type of steering system?

Hydraulic steering readily allows for a second steering station to be installed in a point of choice in the boat.

Mechanical steering based on cable and quadrant also allows for second steering station to be installed but it is a little pickier about location of second station.

Mechanical system based on worm gear would be trickier and the second station would be chain and gear. More tricky to retrofit into a boat.

Finally, these days, any boat that has a (mechanical or hydraulic) autopilot would have the opportunity for inside steering simply by using a remote control with the autopilot itself. This is what we do. Our autopilot tether is quite long--we can steer from the bowsprit, up in the rigging, or inside if desired simply using the autopilot.

Second control on the engine--this is something which can be retrofitted into a boat which doesn't already have it. Engine control systems are cable driven, you just have to purchase one that is intended for two steering/power stations. The used parts chandlers often have old sets from recreational fishing boats, btw.

I prefer as simple as possible mechanical systems with independent control. I wonder how to use autopilot tether inside the boat and ensure water-tightness the same time?
Besides, autopilot does not work in all wind/wave conditions.
Also not sure, how to retrofit a boat not designed for inside steering to provide good enough observation from inside the boat?

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by dokondr

I prefer as simple as possible mechanical systems with independent control. I wonder how to use autopilot tether inside the boat and ensure water-tightness the same time?
Also not sure, how to retrofit a boat not designed for inside steering to provide good enough observation from inside the boat?

The major control of a wheel-based steering system itself is below decks where you can't see it anyway. Quadrant and cable, worm gear, hydraulic, whatever system you have it can have a second steering station. Talk with your local boatyard about retrofit once you've found the right boat to begin the discussion about.

The electrical guts of autopilots don't reside on deck. The mechanical parts of autopilots don't reside outside the boat (with exception of small boat tiller pilots) but rather sit protected below deck. Using an autopilot on tether inside the boat simply requires a socket for the tether to plug into inside the boat--or in our case it is hard wired inside the boat and if we wish to use the tether OUTSIDE the boat we thread it up through a particular cowl vent which resides adjacent our chart house. It the weather/seas are truly awful, the cowl vent is removed and a deck plate put in it's place and the tether wouldn't be able to be used outside anyway.

Besides having a tether, many people have the controls to their autopilot set up inside the boat anyway.

Autopilot working outside while I sit warm and comfy inside:





Observation. From your Moitessier thread and from your past sailing experiences, I thought you were pretty familiar with this topic. It is actually quite incredible how many sailors manage to complete very long bluewater passages with the autopilot doing most the work while the sailor stays below deck w/o performing much in the way of observing his/her surroundings. You'll find the same stories of sailing through gales, storms, cold weather in numerous sailing accounts--via blog, book, news. In my own situation, I looked for a boat with an actual low pilot house and that's what we purchased. We greatly enjoy looking out and around while at anchor and this affords us lovely views as well as a good watch keeping station.

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

...The mechanical parts of autopilots don't reside outside the boat (with exception of small boat tiller pilots) but rather sit protected below deck...

Yes, I am talking about tiller, (no wheel) and possibility to use wind-vane.

Originally Posted by redbopeep

Observation. From your Moitessier thread and from your past sailing experiences, I thought you were pretty familiar with this topic. It is actually quite incredible how many sailors manage to complete very long bluewater passages with the autopilot doing most the work while the sailor stays below deck w/o performing much in the way of observing his/her surroundings. You'll find the same stories of sailing through gales, storms, cold weather in numerous sailing accounts--via blog, book, news. In my own situation, I looked for a boat with an actual low pilot house and that's what we purchased. We greatly enjoy looking out and around while at anchor and this affords us lovely views as well as a good watch keeping station.

I am familiar with inside steering systems on boats specifically built for "awful", as you put it, weather. I am not familiar with inside steering on production boats, which this thread is all about.
From my own production-boats-sailing-experience, autopilots work in very limited weather conditions, they fail in shifting wind and require adjustment. When talking about autopilots, we are not talking here about wind-vane systems that work perfectly well on long passages, and we are not confusing wind-vanes with autopilots, right?

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by dokondr

I am familiar with inside steering systems on boats specifically built for "awful", as you put it, weather. I am not familiar with inside steering on production boats, which this thread is all about.
From my own production-boats-sailing-experience, autopilots work in very limited weather conditions, we are not talking here about wind-vane systems and we are not confusing wind-vanes with autopilots, right?

I am not referring to wind vane systems. I am also not talking about tillers and the associated tiller pilots.

You have confused me though. If you are familiar with inside steering systems on boats designed for very difficult weather conditions then you are also familiar with inside steering systems
for production boats. There's not a difference. There are a few different kinds of systems you might encounter--all of which have the ability to offer you inside steering if you want.

We have two things we're discussing here. The first is to simply use the boat's autopilot system as an inside steering method. The second is to install an inside steering system which requires no autopilot to use.

I am surprised that you think you won't be able to get ahold of a good autopilot suitable for your purposes. A good cruising boat will have an excellent autopilot which works in a wide range of weather and sea conditions. Sailing downwind in mild to no winds and with a notable, large quartering sea is an excellent check of the autopilot's capabilities. Folks with larger boats are more likely to make sure they've got such a good autopilot (not wind steerer) in place than people with smaller boats. If your experiences have largely been on smaller boats this could be why you question this matter as well.

The element of the autopilot which will often have difficulties relates to it's ability to quickly respond to difficult seas or very light wind conditions. In those cases, still, many autopilots will be able to be manually "steered" by the user turning a dial on the control panel or a remote control. This is a mode in which the autopilot isn't functioning as an autopilot but rather it is a steering device. Our autopilot compass was messed up for a bit and we were still able to sit inside out of the rain and do this sort of steering. All we were doing was controlling an electric motor which connects to a chain drive and gear on the steering system. Some autopilots have a hydraulic motor (rather than electric) which can be controlled the same way. Such an hydraulic based autopilot can also have a manual steering pump (and wheel) installed inside the boat somewhere and it essentially becomes an entirely separate back up steering system from the boat's primary (mechanical or hydraulic) system.

In the steering system itself (not autopilot), any boat which has an "inside" station has some logical and straightforward combo of mechanical or hydraulic system components. Whether the boat was designed and built that way by someone else or whether you put it in yourself, it is the same type of thing. No difference in how it will work. There may be a difference in your ability to place it somewhere logical inside the boat, yes, because of the boat's layout. But if you install an inside steering station it will function the same way mechanically (or hydraulic as appropriate) as a second steering station installed by the builder of the boat. Contact your local boatyard to go over the details of this for a particular boat of interest to you. That particular boat's steering system will drive the design elements of an extension of it or a second steering system.

[dokondr]

Redbopeep, thanks for detailed explanations

Originally Posted by redbopeep

I am surprised that you think you won't be able to get ahold of a good autopilot suitable for your purposes. A good cruising boat will have an excellent autopilot which works in a wide range of weather and sea conditions.

The only thing left - is to name a few brands of these "good _production_ cruising boats". Any?
Or maybe by "production boat" we understand differenrt things. For me production boats are those built by such vendors as Bavaria, Beneteau, Dufour, etc.

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by dokondr

Redbopeep, thanks for detailed explanations



The only thing left - is to name a few brands of these "good _production_ cruising boats". Any?
Or maybe by "production boat" we understand differenrt things. For me production boats are those built by such vendors as Bavaria, Beneteau, Dufour, etc.

My response here applies, and I still suggest Hallberg-Rassey.

Which boats have you looked at or test sailed already and what are trending towards?

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by redbopeep

My response here applies, and I still suggest Hallberg-Rassey.

Which boats have you looked at or test sailed already and what are trending towards?

Thanks for your advice. My budget is around $70K and Hallberg-Rassey is out of consideration. I have sailed Sun Odyssey 35, Bavaria 38, Hanse 43, Oceanis 430.
Also plan and all set to sail Westerly Oceanlord 41 from Azores to UK (May 2012) and Bavaria 34 Cruiser in Croatia (Sept 2012).
I am thinking about original Voyager 35 with inside steering:
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/...voyager-35.htm





Yet, have some doubts about the strength of her pilot house and ability to set wind-vane...

[multihullsailor6]

Have you had a look at the Comar Comet 11? She has her saloon under the cockpit AND features inside steering.
Have a look here for starters:

1982 Comar Comet 11 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I have no commercial connection to this advert.

A particulary nice Comet 11 will soon be coming up for sale located in southern Spain - I can provide a contact if you are interested. Again no commercial interest.

Roger

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

Have you had a look at the Comar Comet 11? She has her saloon under the cockpit AND features inside steering.
Have a look here for starters:

1982 Comar Comet 11 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

I have no commercial connection to this advert.

A particulary nice Comet 11 will soon be coming up for sale located in southern Spain - I can provide a contact if you are interested. Again no commercial interest.

Roger

Thanks! Interesting boat. From these pictures I can't quite figure out:
1) Does she have a tiller steering from cockpit?
2) What keel does she have?
3) Where is her engine located and how to access it?

Need to research this boat more ...

[redbopeep]

that's a nice boat however I don't see that it has much capability for watchkeeping/inside steering station. I'm confused.

However, pic #2 of the one linked to shows the outside steering is a tiller (seems to be, at least) at very back of cockpit. It's not quite what I'd have expected though so perhaps that isn't a tiller back there?

[multihullsailor6]

Ah, questions, questions!
OK so here we go:
In the link's pictures:
- Picture 1/8 shows the keel - nothing special, don't forget these boats are from the early 1980s.
- Picture 3/8 indeed shows the tiller sticking up in the air.
- The engine is located under the saloon table, see picture 4/8 with a view facing aft. According to the owner of the one coming up for sale soon engine access is very easy and allround and comfortable sitting on the saloon cushions.
- The inside steering position is opposite/in front of the companionsway ladder picture 6/8 on the bulkhead seperating the saloon/galley/nav area from the sleeping area see picture 8/8 though the steering wheel is not shown. On the Comet 11 I know here in Cartagena, Spain a seat can be fixed behind the wheel.

Fire away with more questions! There is also a Comet 13 with slightly more space.

[multihullsailor6]

I did a YouTube search for Comet 11 and got some hits:
Comet 11 - YouTube

Maybe some questions answered - happy viewing!

[dokondr]

Regarding Comet 11 I wonder:
1) How deep is her saloon? Is standing at full 1.85 meter height possible?
2) With engine aft under saloon table is she balanced well enough?

And what do you think about Voyager 35 ? :
http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives/...voyager-35.htm

[multihullsailor6]

1) No problem with standing headroom in the saloon of the Comet 11 for you (I take it your 1.85m tall)
2) The owner (who has sailed 75,000M in his life) tells me she is fast, well balanced and nice to sail - watch some of the YouTube videos, esp that of "Mauros"
3) The Voyager 35 to me is "just another traditional layout sailing " yacht with far less accommodation space than the Comet 11 at nearly the same length. I also see that the Comet's accommodation plan gives you far more privacy and possiblities than the Voyager's. I'm just looking at the link and details of the Voyager, I have no personal experience in the Voyager - never even seen!
What do second-hand Voyager 35s go for?

[dokondr]

Originally Posted by multihullsailor6

...
What do second-hand Voyager 35s go for?

What do you mean?

From Voyager 35 description:
"The engine is under the floor in the centre of the saloon, raising the seating around the table to allow a view out of the windows"

So Voyager 35 engine is in the center of the boat - good distribution of weight - well balanced boat.

Some Voyager & Nicholson links:
Trident Voyager 35 Berthed Portsmouth (internal steering?)
Trident Sailing Yachts for sale UK, used Trident Sailing Yachts, new Trident yacht sales, free photo ads - Apollo Duck

TRIDENT VOYAGER 35 built in 1979
Deck saloon by Trident Marine, Fareham to Angus Primrose designs
GRP hull, deck and superstructure.
White hull.
Long keel.
Dual wheel steering.
Trident Voyager 35 For Sale - GBP 29,999 - Dieppe, France - Boatshop24.co.uk

12m Nicholson 38
Classic Nicholson 38. Built by Camper and Nicholson in 1970, a new Volvo 50HP diesel engine installed in 2001. Hull awl gripped in blue during 2006. Osmosis treated in 1998.
1970 Nicholson 38 Sail New and Used Boats for Sale - www.yachtworld.co.uk

[multihullsailor6]

I'm not trying to slag off the Voayager - I just believe that the interior volume of the Comet 11 is greater than that of most similiar sized yachts due to the saloon under the cockpit and resulting gain in space - she feels like a 45' space-wise. But of course she is no pilot house yacht with allround views from the seating area.

Still maybe worth some more considerations?