S/v Or S/y ?

[Wildernesstech]

Is there any concensus on which is more proper to use S/V or S/Y? Sailing Vessel or Sailing Yacht? To me it is a sailboat... but I realize standards must be met. I see both used frequently on boats that are equivalent to me. Is it a geographical distinction?

[Trim50]

Originally Posted by Wildernesstech

Is there any concensus on which is more proper to use S/V or S/Y? Sailing Vessel or Sailing Yacht? To me it is a sailboat... but I realize standards must be met. I see both used frequently on boats that are equivalent to me. Is it a geographical distinction?

I think S/V is less pretentious. In addition, the Coast Guard uses the term "Sailing Vessel" to describe most every sailboat.

[Aquaria]

Hi Wildernesstech

looking through dictionaries (english-english and also english-german) I come to the believe that the word vessel is rather connected to a 'ship' and that a 'yacht' is a 'boat'. So, I understand, it is a matter of size. At least it has been, until the invention of mega yachts (that, to my unterstanding are always called 'yachts' - it is indeed more pretentious).

But the use of the word 'yacht' seems to change with the size of yachts nowadays ploghing the oceans. Big ships (I mean very big - almost the size of small cruise ships!) privately owend and operated are more likely called a 'Yacht', sail trainig ships of the same size (that certainly do not look like a yacht) are more likely called a 'sailing vessel', but never a 'sailing yacht'.

Regards

Uwe

SY AQUARIA (a sailing yacht of 32ft length)

[Nausikaa]

Everything which floats and can be used for transport on the water is, in legal terms, a vessel.

A ship is a big vessel capable of carrying a boat, which is a small vessel. Not really altogether clear but, although not so well defined in British legal terms, the difference is clearly defined in Swedish tems

A "fartyg" is a vessel and as such is not size related but a "skepp", which is the same word as the English ship, is a vessel which has a length of more than 12 metres and a width of more than 4. Both parameters have to be fullfilled so a vessel which is 13 metres long but 3.9 metres wide is a boat. If it were 15 cms wider it would be a ship.

To be in charge of a boat in Sweden, unless it is a commercial venture, you need no qualification. To be in charge of a ship you do.

The Swedish system works well but where does a yacht fit into the order of things? Well obviously it can always be refered to as a sailing vessel or craft but that sounds too clinical for my likes. It does not adequately describe what it is. For me, a sailing boat would be a dingy or a day-sailer. Put a cabing on the boat and I would describe it as a sailing yacht - but that is just my opinion.

Aye // Stephen

[Wildernesstech]

One of the problems that I am having with this is that originally the term "yacht" refered to a smaller vessel with less draft used to hunt pirates and such so that their tactic of using skinny water to evade capture didn't work. Later, these smaller vessels came to be used as luxury transportation and the term yacht stayed with them. As I undersand it, the term yacht is used for all craft used for pleasure. I certainly don't seem to find any clear answers. The propensity to consider yachts a thing stemming from wealth is confounding the issue further. I am wealthy; Because I am a sailor and adventurer, but I am not wealthy monetarily.

David

[MMNETSEA]

Generally speaking when an abbreviation is applied to a sailboat's name - S/V will be used ahead of the name EG : S/V Windseeker

Having said that, S/Y is also used, but not nearly as often. Sailboat is certainly commonly used in the US. Yachtsman and Yachtswomen are nicknamed Yachties - Although I have been corrected by one Yachtie in that she would rather be called a Sailor.

[Wildernesstech]

Originally Posted by MMNETSEA

Generally speaking when an abbreviation is applied to a sailboat's name - S/V will be used ahead of the name EG : S/V Windseeker

Having said that, S/Y is also used, but not nearly as often. Sailboat is certainly commonly used in the US. Yachtsman and Yachtswomen are nicknamed Yachties - Although I have been corrected by one Yachtie in that she would rather be called a Sailor.

Yes, Yachty here is oft' attributed to a "nose-in-the-air" type that is more worried about status than the enjoyment of life. "Sailor" is an earned title signifying an accomplishment in training and knowledge (usually in the school of hard-knocks). It must have something to do with the movies! One of these days maybe I'll know enough to have a title, but my name has sufficed for many years!

David

[Nausikaa]

Just to add a little more to the debate, according to a Certificate of British Registry, a sailing pleasure boat is termed a SAILING YACHT. I suppose the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen knows a bit about these things.

Aye // Stephen

[MMNETSEA]

And of course to be totally British if you have a "Pleasure Craft" or a "Small Ship" (no mention of a sailboat or a little yacht ) -

register here by clicking on Small Ship's Register

Very interesting definition of a pleasure vessel - especially applicable to those boats looking for crew.

[Nausikaa]

The sit MMNETSEA refers to is well worth a visit. In the context of pleasure craft vs. commerial (and with regard to those seeking paying crews) it is worth considering the following prossecution, one of many shown on the site.

SCINTILLA CHARTERS

Defendant: Francois Haussauer, skipper/owner of Scintilla

Date of Offence: 7th June 2004

Offence: Five charges arising from two voyages; two for not having the appropriate Certificate of Competence to take charge of the yacht; two for not having Load Line Certification for the yacht, and one for breaching a Prohibition Notice.

Details: The charges were brought by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency, following complaints received in relation to the illegitimate charter operation.

Mr Francois Haussauer, aged 52, had been commercially operating his home built yacht in the South of France for a niche naturist market. He promoted the charter holiday to the British public via the internet, a Channel 5 film and publicity brochures. He offered `Scintilla’ on a skippered charter basis and took paying passengers to sea without the required certification of a charter vessel.

The court heard how Mr Haussauer failed to comply with the regulations even after numerous attempts by the MCA to educate and inform him of the requirements. `Scintilla’ was chartered with intent despite Mr Haussauer’s knowledge that it would violate the safety regulations.

Penalty: Fined Total £4500 costs £11,000

Yes, it is a bit off topic but considering the gravity of the issue and the dabates of the past it is worth mentioning.

Aye // Stephen

[Aquaria]

Back to the question, if there are any standards.

Obviously not really. Depends on the point of view.

Authorities here in GER never use the word "yacht". They use the word "Sportboot" which could be translated with a "boat used to do some activity in the sence of a sport" (for fun, for pleasure, but not for commercial purposes).

The only strange exception: the national hydrografic office (bsh) published a book named "Jachtfunkdienst", it is an excerpt of the official publication of the german list of radio signals (many volumes). But here they used the old word Jacht instead of yacht. Who knows why.... But on the other hand they call their charts designed to the needs of pleasure boating "Sportboot-Karten" and on the english version they even translate it to "small craft charts"...

We sailors among sailors never talk about our "yachts". We talk about our "ships" or our "boats". An if someone talks about his "Yacht" , "Sailing Yacht" or "Motor Yacht" he shows that he is at least new to the boating community.

Finally,mostly people who are not into sailing and boating talk about "yachts".

So, the connotation of the word "Yacht" differs from group to group, from interest to interest.

Uwe

SY AQUARIA

[Footprints]

Just to add our two cents worth...... and after being in the Royal Australian navy for 15 years... (not that it accounts for much).. we have always been told that a ship is anything over 3000 tonnes and boat is anything under.....

Which is very important to us as submariners as we liked to be called a boat (surface displacmenet of 2700 tonnes and dived of 3100)... and this information doesnt really add much to the topic... But...

Even after sailing for most of my life......the SV versues SY mystery is still one of the very MANY problems that I am yet to gain understanding of.

[Nausikaa]

Originally Posted by Footprints

Just to add our two cents worth...... and after being in the Royal Australian navy for 15 years... (not that it accounts for much).. we have always been told that a ship is anything over 3000 tonnes and boat is anything under.....

With all due respect to the R.A.N., is that 3,00 gross, net, displacement or deadweight tonnes? I would say that that is not a good demarcation between ship and boat.

I understand the submariners desire for their vessels to be called boats. Thay have by tradition always done that but there are some pretty big subs out there too. Britain's first nuclear "boat", H.M.S. Dreadnaught had a surface displacement of 3556 tonnes and a submerged displacement of 4064 tonnes so, by the R.A.N. definition she was a ship but her crew would certainly have refered to her as "the boat".

The Russian Delta II class submarines were about six times the size of the Dreadnaught!

Still does not solve the s/v or s/y issue though does it?

Aye // Stephen

[MMNETSEA]

As a confirmed multihuller - the preference is definitely S/C Fastcat - but I will concede to :-

S/M FASTCAT

Richard

[JeanneP]

I've been practicing saying them both and here's what I've found about myself.

When we sailed, we referred to ourselves on the radio as "yacht Watermelon", not "sailing yacht Watermelon". We now have a power boat, and I find we refer to ourselves as "motor vessel Watermelon" or "yacht Watermelon". For me, at least, it's what rolls off the tongue, and what I believe is most easily understandable to the receiving party.

Our cards, on the other hand, were "S/Y Watermelon" and now, "M/V Watermelon".

Whenever we are discussing our boats, though, I refer to them as boats. Or sailboats and powerboats.

Hailing a boat I don't know the name of, then it's important to make sure that they know who we're calling - Sailing vessel, motor vessel, or ship (when trying to get that behemoth to notice we are there and that we are turning hard to starboard, or whatever).

Seems to me that it's just whatever gets their attention and is understood.

[redbopeep]

We tend to use S/V (vessel not yacht) for our sloop but, I must admit that as soon as we finish the rebuild and re-launch our other boat, I'm really looking forward to identifying us as the "Schooner Mahdee" since that just sounds so totally nautical and, well, right.

Fair winds