Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > General Cruising Forum
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-06-2010, 10:55 AM   #1
Ensign
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
Default

My girlfriend and I aim to sail the world. I know two novices with little money attempting such a life is ill advised; however, we are. Neither of us has any experience or skill on the water. We are both fresh and worn from college. I grew up in the country and have reasonable skills in the outdoors, but all that knowledge seems insignificant when I imagine the difficulties of boating.

Anyway, phase one is determining how much it will actually cost to obtain and run a boat for 3 years:

My research tells me we can obtain one for free or almost free, but that feels wrong. Also, is it possible to estimate food costs without planning a route first?

Can anyone link guides to deep sea fishing, sailing, and marine batteries?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
__________________

__________________
glammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 11:50 AM   #2
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glammy' date='06 April 2010 - 01:55 PM View Post

My research tells me we can obtain one for free or almost free, but that feels wrong.
Yes, you can obtain a boat for almost free, but you will spend a lot of work and money to make it seaworthy.

The work will pay back in the long run, because you will know your boat, and how to repair it.
__________________

__________________
magwas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 02:03 PM   #3
Rear Admiral
 
Aquaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Home Port: Hamburg GER
Vessel Name: Aquaria
Posts: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glammy' date='06 April 2010 - 11:55 AM View Post

¬*Also, is it possible to estimate food costs without planning a route first?
No, too much depends on your needs and used standards and skills! If you live downtown Paris, New York or Tokyo your monthly food bill while cruising will be much cheaper, no matter where.¬*

If you are pleased with rice, noodles and other local basic foods that can be optained easily on local markets, the living will be much cheaper than buying in supermarkets that carry brands from all over the world.

Doing your own fishing will cut the costs considerably.

And after all it depends on where you sail, maybe you want to leave out high industrialized countries where the food prices are comparably higher than elsewhere.

Uwe

SY Aquaria¬*
__________________
If you have the time, you alwas have the right winds.

More on my Centurion 32:
http://www.cabinetdeparodontologie.n...ria/index.html
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: Germany, Background, Cruising/Sailing the German Bight
Aquaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 02:26 PM   #4
Moderator
 
JeanneP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

Rather than answer what is probably the unanswerable, bear with me as I try to put "messing around in boats" into a bit of landlubber perspective.

Although a boat is somewhat more complicated than an RV, the idea is quite similar - traveling around carrying your home with you. How much money do you think it would cost to travel cross-country in an RV?

Would you trust your lives to an RV that you obtained for free, or almost for free? Would you know what needed to be fixed in order to make it safe? Would you know how to fix it?

Would you trust your lives to a mode of transportation that you did not know how to run?

Some costs:

(a) obtaining your home. As with buying a house, a professional is needed to inspect the potential purchase to determine its "liveability" (seaworthiness) and give you some idea of what it would cost to bring it up to minimum standards. Add $1,000 or so for this expert opinion. Realistically, the less you know about something, the more dependent you are upon professional guidance.

( Running and maintaining your home. Here a bit more knowledge needs to be acquired by you if you expect to ever leave sight of land. No AAA or parking by the roadside with a "help me" flag attached to a radio antenna. There are no road signs, there aren't even any roads. You have to get to a safe harbor, and the less money you have, the more important it is that you will be the one effecting repairs or short-term jury-rigs to get you there safely.

(c) Food costs. Sit down, figure out what you like to eat, then go to the grocery store and price canned and dried foods (not frozen, not fresh) for meals and snacks for a month. Then multiply by 1.25 and you have a rough estimate of one month's food costs no matter where you might find yourself (except perhaps Europe, where I'd suggest multiplying by 1.50.)

As for links. Batteries - you have a long way to go before you need to think about purchasing batteries.

Sailing. What do you want, sailing classes? You can search these forums to find some information, and beyond that, just use whatever search engine you are comfortable with. However, no web site is going to teach you how to sail.

Deep sea fishing? Did you search the Web for that? See what you get first with your own search. I think you're better off asking questions on this forum for answers you could use. But I might be wrong. A search will at least help you figure out what you don't know.

I hope you are not annoyed by what must seem like non-answers to your requests, but books are written on buying a boat and going cruising, and that is not what this, or any other forum, can provide you. However, if you search this forum for specific subjects - and browse through the various topics on the Cruising forum, you should have a better idea of what more you need to know.

A few newbies who have gone this way before, and whose questions and their answer might be helpful to you, are atavist, tailwalker, and Tom Farley. Search for their topics as well.

I'm all for going cruising and encourage you to pursue this, but I'd suggest that you first learn how to sail (and there are lots of topics covering this on this board), and take your education in manageable bites.

Look forward to observing and participating in your foray into sailing around the world.

Jeanne
__________________
In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

SY WATERMELON |
MV WATERMELON (New) | Cruiser's Dictionary, free ebook

= Cruiser's Dictionary, North America,
JeanneP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 04:49 PM   #5
Ensign
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
Default

I didn't mean to give the impression that I haven't studied the forums and read the few guides and logs I could find and watched the man with the funny voice explain things as slowly as possible. Not that he wasn't very helpful. He was great. This website is really a cut above all the rest.

I asked about marine batteries because they are the only component in the electrical system I have in mind that I am unfamiliar with. That makes them the biggest unknown next to the boat itself in my cost projection.

So boats. There is a lot of talk of "seaworthiness" and "making ready for deep waters." What does that mean structurally?

I suppose for more comprehensive sailing information it is time to hit the library.

Cost projection by thursday
__________________
glammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2010, 04:49 PM   #6
Commander
 
Seafarer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 144
Default

The batteries are the last part of the electrical system that should be addressed. The number, size, and type of batteries will be determined by the rest of the system.

Read http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm to learn everything you need to know about what your spending your money on when you buy a battery.

What part of the country are you in?
__________________
Seafarer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 03:07 AM   #7
Commander
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 151
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glammy' date='06 April 2010 - 07:49 PM View Post

So boats. There is a lot of talk of "seaworthiness" and "making ready for deep waters." What does that mean structurally?
Seaworthiness is not just a structural question. From mechanics standpoint a blue water vessel is commonly defined as something which is able to withstand force 8 winds and associated waves without damage or capsize. There are scantling rules made by various entities which define the design forces, shell thickness, framing and a lot of other aspects of such a boat when made from various materials. If you are really interested, you can look up the Germanisher Lloyd rules here: http://www.gl-group.com/infoServices...ish/glrp-e.pdf

Another important aspect is the equipment on board. If you are unfamiliar only with batteries in the electrical system, then you should have a lot of knowledge about marine electronics. A deep water cruiser nowadays have GPS, autohelm, sonar, chart plotter, VHF ans SSB radio, and sometimes radar and/or AIS,, each of them can be considered as safety gear (epirb and such not mentioned, because these are autonomous systems). You probably also have watermaker, electronic winches, lights, two or three means of generating electricity, etc. Each of these should be rigid enough to withstand marine environment (salt water and electronics are not exactly friendly), and there are also special considerations on the system level: you don't want your props to wash away within a year, or electrocute someone swimming near you.

And of course all of the above worth nothing if there is no good seamanship and established order on board.
__________________
magwas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 02:51 PM   #8
Rear Admiral
 
Aquaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Home Port: Hamburg GER
Vessel Name: Aquaria
Posts: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glammy' date='06 April 2010 - 06:49 PM View Post

So boats. There is a lot of talk of "seaworthiness" and "making ready for deep waters." What does that mean structurally?
Yes, to buy a boat with for example the Germanischer LLoyd standards in mind, must lead to a (structurally) safe boat. But it needs an expert (surveyer) that can instantly see, if these standards are met. To buy a boat that is already certified by the Germaischer Lloyd GL is much easier but smaller yachts are very seldom classified by the GL (or similar classifications by other countries) - it is just too expensive. Getting a GL Classification for an existing yacht off the production line is not easy, if not impossible, because the standards are much higher than the standards the, let's say, average european yacht is built after, ¬*the CE-Classification. Here (on page 14) you find the boat design categories and for world cruising it is mandatory to look for the design category 'A'-Ocean, Wind force exceeding 8 bft and significant wave hights exceeding 4 meters. ¬*

But this CE-Classification 'A' does not mean that you get the most seaworthy boat. It is just a classification that tries to match the builder's needs (to stay compedetive), the insurance companies expectations (no money for a 'C'-classified boat on the ocean) and a minimum safety on the water. ¬*You find the 9m GRP light displacement performance sailor classified under category 'A' as well as the rugged 14m aluminum ocean cruiser.¬*

In most countries the national yachting or sailing assosiation provide material and information on yacht safety that make up a pretty good guideline when looking for safety features. You find them more likely in the assosiations racing sections, defining the minimum standards for boat structure and equipment depending on the sea area. Even though they have racing boats in mind I found it quite informative as most of the defined standards are quite easy to imagine on a cruising boat (and the Ocean does not care if a cruising- or a racing yacht is withstanding the elements...).

And finally, if a boat is found that is more or less officially able to cruise the oceans it does not mean, that it is sea-friendly... That depends on the crew - some find it okay to rush over the oceans in very lifely and wet sailing, but still seaworthy light displacement constructions, others prefer the slow, but dry sailing double ender.

And at the end it is the combination of the capability of the boat AND the seamanship and experience of the crew that makes up the seaworthiness. ¬*

Uwe

SY Aquaria
__________________
If you have the time, you alwas have the right winds.

More on my Centurion 32:
http://www.cabinetdeparodontologie.n...ria/index.html
I've Contributed to the Cruisers Wiki: Germany, Background, Cruising/Sailing the German Bight
Aquaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 05:58 PM   #9
Ensign
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
Default

Quote:
And finally, if a boat is found that is more or less officially able to cruise the oceans it does not mean, that it is sea-friendly... That depends on the crew - some find it okay to rush over the oceans in very lifely and wet sailing, but still seaworthy light displacement constructions, others prefer the slow, but dry sailing double ender


Doesn't that come down to price? I would love a boat with good sailing characteristics(once I sort out exactly what those are), but the limitations of cost seem enormous.

@SeafarerI live in Chicago now.

Can someone please explain the physics of wind vane self-steering systems to me? Also, what are your preferred methods of self-steering?

Thanks
__________________
glammy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 11:45 PM   #10
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glammy' date='10 April 2010 - 12:58 AM View Post

Can someone please explain the physics of wind vane self-steering systems to me?

Thanks
Here is a good write up on Wind Vane Steering:- CLICK
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 03:35 PM   #11
Boomerang!
 
Boomerang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Home Port: Oxford, MD
Vessel Name: Boomerang!
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanneP' date='06 April 2010 - 10:26 AM View Post

Rather than answer what is probably the unanswerable, bear with me as I try to put "messing around in boats" into a bit of landlubber perspective.

Although a boat is somewhat more complicated than an RV, the idea is quite similar - traveling around carrying your home with you. How much money do you think it would cost to travel cross-country in an RV?

Would you trust your lives to an RV that you obtained for free, or almost for free? Would you know what needed to be fixed in order to make it safe? Would you know how to fix it?

Would you trust your lives to a mode of transportation that you did not know how to run?

Some costs:

(a) obtaining your home. As with buying a house, a professional is needed to inspect the potential purchase to determine its "liveability" (seaworthiness) and give you some idea of what it would cost to bring it up to minimum standards. Add $1,000 or so for this expert opinion. Realistically, the less you know about something, the more dependent you are upon professional guidance.

( Running and maintaining your home. Here a bit more knowledge needs to be acquired by you if you expect to ever leave sight of land. No AAA or parking by the roadside with a "help me" flag attached to a radio antenna. There are no road signs, there aren't even any roads. You have to get to a safe harbor, and the less money you have, the more important it is that you will be the one effecting repairs or short-term jury-rigs to get you there safely.

© Food costs. Sit down, figure out what you like to eat, then go to the grocery store and price canned and dried foods (not frozen, not fresh) for meals and snacks for a month. Then multiply by 1.25 and you have a rough estimate of one month's food costs no matter where you might find yourself (except perhaps Europe, where I'd suggest multiplying by 1.50.)

As for links. Batteries - you have a long way to go before you need to think about purchasing batteries.

Sailing. What do you want, sailing classes? You can search these forums to find some information, and beyond that, just use whatever search engine you are comfortable with. However, no web site is going to teach you how to sail.

Deep sea fishing? Did you search the Web for that? See what you get first with your own search. I think you're better off asking questions on this forum for answers you could use. But I might be wrong. A search will at least help you figure out what you don't know.

I hope you are not annoyed by what must seem like non-answers to your requests, but books are written on buying a boat and going cruising, and that is not what this, or any other forum, can provide you. However, if you search this forum for specific subjects - and browse through the various topics on the Cruising forum, you should have a better idea of what more you need to know.

A few newbies who have gone this way before, and whose questions and their answer might be helpful to you, are atavist, tailwalker, and Tom Farley. Search for their topics as well.

I'm all for going cruising and encourage you to pursue this, but I'd suggest that you first learn how to sail (and there are lots of topics covering this on this board), and take your education in manageable bites.

Look forward to observing and participating in your foray into sailing around the world.

Jeanne
Very well put, Red....succinct and to the point....nothing to add. I hope they will take your words to heart (brain) and learn everything they can....

C
__________________
Charles

S/V Boomerang!

1980 Cal 39 Mark II

St Michaels, MD
Boomerang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2010, 04:27 PM   #12
Ensign
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 16
Default

Hey, welcome aboard. A few points you may wish to consider are.

1. Move somewhere where there are a lot of boats, and find one you can live aboard. Most brokers will know of a boat whose owner is having trouble making the moorage payments. You may be able to move aboard for the cost of moorage or even some sweat in cleaning and maintaining. This will allow you to see if you like living in tight quarters. Some people can not adapt to doing the dance required getting around each other on the way from the bow to the stern on a 30' boat.

2. Both of you get a job in the marine industry in some capacity. Even doing bright work will help. Save a cruising kitty and gain experience. Take some sailing lessons, even going out on a lot of different boats will help. When the boat heals a lot of people find they don't like it.

3. I would vote for a sloop under 35 feet. Something easy to sail and that one can handle. One of you may become hurt or seasick.

4. Sailors are a friendly lot and you can get a lot of good advice and help by just showing interest. Offer to help around the yard with other boats. You will become known and will gain knowledge.

5. Keep it simple. You don't need a mega yacht. You don't want to draw attention to yourself and become a target.

6. Before you spend a lot of money and time find out if you really like it. Sometimes it is not as romantic as you may think.

7. I have heard San Diego is a great place to find a boat as a lot of North Americans set out to sail around the world. When they get that far South one of them will decide it is not what they want to do.

8. At any rate, good luck and do it before you get nailed down with a lot of responsibilities. You will have a ball.

9. Fair winds, from Sunseeker.
__________________
On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of those who on the dawn of victory sat down to rest.
Sunseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 04:53 PM   #13
Ensign
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by glammy' date='06 April 2010 - 11:55 AM View Post

My girlfriend and I aim to sail the world. I know two novices with little money attempting such a life is ill advised; however, we are. Neither of us has any experience or skill on the water. We are both fresh and worn from college. I grew up in the country and have reasonable skills in the outdoors, but all that knowledge seems insignificant when I imagine the difficulties of boating.

Anyway, phase one is determining how much it will actually cost to obtain and run a boat for 3 years:

My research tells me we can obtain one for free or almost free, but that feels wrong. Also, is it possible to estimate food costs without planning a route first?

Can anyone link guides to deep sea fishing, sailing, and marine batteries?

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks
Hello, I am, too, a novice skipper with the intention of circumnavigating the globe. I bought my boat in 2008 so I already have about 2 seasons worth of sailing behind me, but still learn new things every day, and make novel mistakes (this is also learning). My first thought was to do my circumnavigation in my 25-year old 27' GRP boat, but right now I'm in the process of getting a newer, bigger and more expensive boat. I just want to have something that is more stable in rough waves so that one doesn't feel like getting a beating after such a journey. Also, bigger boat means more food and drinking water on board for large ocean passages.

I think your best resource for info would be asking your fellow skippers in any harbour you stop for some advice. I regularly meet skippers who have either gone round the world or then done extensive ocean passages, and their first reaction to my trip is to try to persuade me not to go, and then when they realize they fail at that, they want to teach me a couple of tricks to enhance my chances of survival from 50% to 55%... or that's what I was told once

I guess running the boat for 3 years depends quite a lot of the build quality of the boat, how worn out are different parts, like the engine and rigging, and so on. It is really really hard to evaluate the ultimate cost. My approach is to buy as good parts as possible so that I don't need to replace them every 5 years. Of course, this takes money.

topi

__________________
topi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2010, 08:58 PM   #14
Moderator
 
JeanneP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by topi' date='14 May 2010 - 12:53 PM View Post

I regularly meet skippers who have either gone round the world or then done extensive ocean passages, and their first reaction to my trip is to try to persuade me not to go, and then when they realize they fail at that, they want to teach me a couple of tricks to enhance my chances of survival from 50% to 55%... or that's what I was told once

I guess running the boat for 3 years depends quite a lot of the build quality of the boat, how worn out are different parts, like the engine and rigging, and so on. It is really really hard to evaluate the ultimate cost. My approach is to buy as good parts as possible so that I don't need to replace them every 5 years. Of course, this takes money.
Hi, Topi. I hope those skippers trying to dissuade you from your dream are kidding you. And it's cruel to tell you that your chances of survival are 55%. Though I can be very harsh regarding the lack of knowledge of some hopeful circumnavigation wannabes, lack of preparation, knowledge, and experience may result in the loss of a boat, perhaps a humiliating rescue, but those who fail to survive are the rare ones. It happens, but looking at the 15% annual fatality rate in the US for automobile drivers, sailing offshore seems a lot safer than driving an automobile.

I've found that most people inexperienced in a new venture take a fairly long time to figure out what are the questions that they need to ask. Or, as I intone, "they don't know what they don't know." And sometimes they don't know how to phrase the question so that others understand what they really need to know.

For example,
Quote:
I guess running the boat for 3 years depends quite a lot of the build quality of the boat, how worn out are different parts, like the engine and rigging, and so on.
You're running a 25-year-old boat. I would not go offshore with a boat with 15-year old rigging or sails. I would probably want most of the gear, especially the rigging and pumps, to be relatively new, and all the gear tested. Yet I would go offshore with a 27-year old fiberglass boat once it has been inspected to assure me that it does not have any structural damage, that keel bolts are tested as being sound, engine is in good shape, etc. As people have commented many times, nobody knows how long a fiberglass boat will last, there are 40-year-old ones out there still going strong.

We look at Cruiser Log as a virtual harbor where you can ask your questions of the skippers hanging around here. Welcome.
__________________

__________________
In 1986 we went cruising for a few years. After 20 years and 50+ countries and several oceans, we are STILL "cruising for a few years".

SY WATERMELON |
MV WATERMELON (New) | Cruiser's Dictionary, free ebook

= Cruiser's Dictionary, North America,
JeanneP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can't We Keep Used Sails For The Sailing World? HandyBilly The Poop Deck 1 02-26-2010 09:15 AM
World Cruising And Sailing Wiki Lighthouse General Cruising Forum 2 03-06-2009 04:06 PM
World Cruising And Sailing Wiki Lighthouse Cruising & Sailing Wiki Discussion 1 04-16-2008 10:09 AM
Cost Of Sailing Around The World? TRASERENA General Cruising Forum 2 02-24-2008 07:37 AM
'round The World Sailing Record Shattered JeanneP General Cruising Forum 8 01-23-2008 02:11 PM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:36 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0