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Old 09-04-2007, 08:42 PM   #57
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Being from interior Alaska where temps are -40 and colder in the winter and my sailing season is only 3 months long... Hey, I'm all for global warming! If man is responsible keep up the good work!

Mike O
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:27 PM   #58
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Gotta love it! Where is Al when someone needs him?

So as Wrong Way Flanagan, who has turned himself into a Global Laughingstock on the altar of Global Warming, remains trapped in the arctic perhaps someone would be kind enough send him a copy of Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth for him to pass the time while waiting for the ice to melt and for the endangered polar bears to go away.
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Old 11-26-2007, 12:18 AM   #59
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Here on the Long Island Sound, 18,000 yrs ago the north coast was a one mile high ice sheet. The Earth has been warming a while. I believe that the overwhelming environmental problem on the planet is there are too many monkeys in trousers. Solve that problem and every other problem disappears. If we allow populations to grow, all our problems magnify. If we do not reduce the human population to one billion or so we will always be consuming resources above the replacement rate. I don't know too many adults who have any faith in "Global Treaties". We have to remember the Earth has cycled through multiple ice ages and warming periods. The source problem of accelerated warming is overpopulation. We will be treating a patient who is coughing due to lung cancer with cough medicine. You have to get to source of the problem. Attempting to reduce hydrocarbon combustion in the face of expanding population is a FOOL'S ERRAND. We have to stabilize the source of the problem first if we want to significantly reduce CO2. Nobody can answer whether or not CO2 has enough clout to overcome the natural cycles of the planet. It is impossible to predict. Luckily 3/4 of the planet is covered with water.
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Old 11-26-2007, 05:15 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendelin View Post
The source problem of accelerated warming is overpopulation. Luckily 3/4 of the planet is covered with water.
Get rid of all those people who don't know how to sail or know how to use a contraceptive ??

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Old 01-27-2008, 12:12 AM   #61
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This is worth a looksee...







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Old 01-27-2008, 07:10 PM   #62
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Bob Carter is a very good speaker, and he is showing some very nice-looking charts. He glosses over global warming when it occurs, though, preferring to point to extremes that he can mock as absurd conclusions by climatologists.

Bob Carter is not a climatologist. His area of study is marine geology. Rocks. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bob_Carter

His methodology for demonstrating a lack of global warming "since 1998" is refuted convincingly here: http://www.logicalscience.com/skeptics/bobcarter.html

It also comments that Carter receives funding from Big Oil. Does that mean anything? I think so.

Now, to another issue regarding science and scientists. The greatest skeptic of global warming has been, until recently, the Bush Administration. That administration has also been indicted as censoring NASA scientists who have expressed their belief in the problem of global warming. Why, pray tell, if global warming is a myth and real scientists know it, does our government have to muzzle the real scientists on their payroll who express their concern about the human contribution to global warming? Makes me believe that there must be more than a little truth to the worries of global warming. Sorry to post almost the entire article, but I don't think that the link will work. Here it is, perhaps it will work. http://environment.newscientist.com/channe...ate-change.html

Quote:
US climate scientists pressured on climate change
  • 15:01 31 January 2007
  • NewScientist.com news service
  • New Scientist Environment and Reuters
US scientists were pressured to tailor their reports on global warming to fit the Bush administration's climate change scepticism, a congressional committee heard on Tuesday 30 January. In some cases, this occurred at the request of a former oil-industry lobbyist. "High-quality science [is] struggling to get out," Francesca Grifo, of the watchdog group Union of Concerned Scientists, told members of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. A UCS survey found that 150 climate scientists personally experienced political interference in the past five years in a total of at least 435 incidents.

"Nearly half of all respondents perceived or personally experienced pressure to eliminate the words 'climate change', 'global warming' or other similar terms from a variety of communications," Grifo said.

Rick Piltz, a former US government scientist, told the committee that former White House official Phil Cooney took an active role in casting doubt on the consequences of global climate change. Piltz said he resigned in 2005 as a result of pressure to soft-pedal findings on global warming.

Cooney, who was a lobbyist for the American Petroleum Institute before becoming chief of staff at the White House Council on Environmental Quality, also resigned in 2005. He went on to work for oil giant ExxonMobil, which was recently accused of spending $16 million on supporting climate sceptics.

"Speculative musing"

Documents on global climate change required Cooney's review and approval, Piltz said, adding that "If you know what you are writing has to go through a White House clearance before it is to be published, [] an anticipatory kind of self-censorship sets in."

He added: "[Cooney's] edits of programme reports, which had been drafted and approved by career science programme managers, had the cumulative effect of adding an enhanced sense of scientific uncertainty about global warming and minimising its likely consequences."

According to The Guardian newspaper, Piltz described how Cooney had personally edited out a key section of an Environmental Protection Agency report to Congress on the dangers of climate change, calling it "speculative musing".

Seeking answers

Henry Waxman, a California Democrat who chairs the oversight committee, complained that the White House has balked at supplying documents requested over six months to investigate these allegations.

"The committee isn't trying to obtain state secrets or documents that could affect our immediate national security," Waxman said. "We are simply seeking answers to whether the White House's political staff is inappropriately censoring impartial government scientists."

Kristen Hellmer, of the Council on Environmental Quality, part of the Executive Office of the US President, said the CEQ had been cooperating with Congress. When asked about allegations of political interference in scientific documents, she said: "We do have in place a very transparent system in science reporting."

Spate of accusations

Reporting on the hearing, the New York Times says that even Republicans had little good to say of the Bush administration's handling of climate change science. Almost all the Republicans on the panel began by stating that global warming was happening and that greenhouse gases from human activities were largely to blame.

The Bush administration has suffered a spate of accusations of muzzling climate scientists in recent years. In January 2006, James Hansen, director of the US space agency's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, said that officials at NASA headquarters had ordered their staff to review his lectures, papers, postings on the Goddard website and requests for media interviews (see Top climatologist accuses US of trying to gag him).

In February 2006, the topic was brought up in the House Committee on Science, and New Scientist reported that scientists at another government agency, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, were also upset about the situation.

The UCS issued its first accusations in February 2004, followed closely by more finger pointing in July of that year.
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Old 01-27-2008, 07:43 PM   #63
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Makes one wonder who to believe but, if the scientists cannot agree then it would be sensible to adopt the precautionary approach until such time as they can agree. Being careful can't be harmful.

I just wonder why we even bother paying enormous sums for scientists education and research. Given that training is basically the same and the climatic data is the same then they should all be singing from the same song sheet.

Good old world we live in; even if it is getting hotter,....erm----colder......no hotter.....umph whatever.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:32 PM   #64
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Well of course he gets funding from oil companies...he is a marine geologist.

The "long range historical data" is nonetheless worth considering. Five to ten years from now we will have to revisit the topic to see if the climate is running away hot or cold. If weather were a stock, I'd be shorting hard.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:16 AM   #65
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Yup, he's a marine geologist, not a climatologist, nor a meteorologist. And long range historical data, as he demonstrates in tape 1, shows that global warming has gone on for 16,000 years at least. And his cooling over the past 2,000 years or so is not so easily seen - that line could as easily have been placed on an ascending slope rather than his descending slope. No data, just his wide blue line.

No, I found his speech excellent, but I saw no hard data, just nice lines that could as easily have been sloped the other way. Give me the data, not his pictures and patter.
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:16 AM   #66
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Old 01-29-2008, 02:20 AM   #67
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Old 01-29-2008, 04:10 AM   #68
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Egging!
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Old 01-29-2008, 12:11 PM   #69
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Awww, c'mon, it's funny, don't you think?
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Old 01-29-2008, 03:57 PM   #70
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I will have to send it to my AGW friends up North. They will enjoy it.
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