Go Back   Cruiser Log World Cruising & Sailing Forums > Cruising Forums > The Bosun's Locker > Repairs & Maintenance
Cruiser Wiki

Join Cruiser Log Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-03-2009, 02:36 AM   #1
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20
Send a message via AIM to SilentOption
Default

I am removing all the interior varnish from teak trim dating back 30 years. Some of the newer applications have come off quite easily but the older, likely original varnish is quite stubborn. Besides sanding what works best in your opinion?
__________________

__________________
Bill and Sali

CSY 44

Silent Option
SilentOption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 04:26 AM   #2
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOption View Post
I am removing all the interior varnish from teak trim dating back 30 years. Some of the newer applications have come off quite easily but the older, likely original varnish is quite stubborn. Besides sanding what works best in your opinion?
A scraper works far better than sanding varnish off. You might want to pick up one that comes with several differently shaped blades as well as the normal type of carbide scraper (with handle) that is used for paint removal. Usually woodworking stores rather than big-box home stores will have good scrapers.

I resort to sanding in areas that one of my numerous scrapers won't fit. You'll notice that sandpaper clogs up pretty quickly.

Once you get the varnish off, make sure and put enough back on that it won't be failing within a year or so. "Enough" is never less than about 8 coats and is likely to be 12 or more coats depending upon the varnish you're using. If you're in a tropical location, you'll need to re-coat every 6 weeks to keep UV damage at bay or you'll need to get covers made for hatches, etc OR you'll be doing this all over again shortly.

Best of luck to you!
__________________

__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 07:57 AM   #3
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 332
Default

Another option (but not one for the faint hearted) is to remove all the teak trim by drilling out the old screw plugs with a forstner bit (assuming that the original builder did not glue but kept with the traditional method of screw and plug) take them home and belt or orbital sand them. Reinstall with new teak plugs using the original holes. Then varnish as per the usual upteen coats etc. Saves masking and avoids any accidental scratching of any bulkheads or surrounding surfaces from sanding in place.

We just did this on our Alajuela Cutter. From start to finish it took a fortnight and the results are fantastic and believe me, we had a mountain of teak trim!

But be warned!

Unfortunately like the woman who buys the new dress and then decides that it doesn't match her shoes, handbag, curtains, upholstery or car (no sexism intended ) while we had the trim off, we also took the opportunity to replace all the bench top laminates throughout Mico.

We then decided our teak and holly cabin sole was looking rather dark and dowdy - so it was a sand back, mask the entire insides of our vessel including headliner, and then spray 8 coats of 2 pack gloss varnish with a light sand between each.

With a new gleaming cabin sole which lightens the entire yacht - we then noticed that the old teak plate, bowl & cup rack screwed to the main bulkhead was also letting the side down; so after a couple of days at the drawing board, plans were drawn up to build a large teak bookcase with double glass fronted doors which integrates a rack for all the crockery and glasses.

The bookcase has come up a treat but now doesn't match the old cabinet in the heads area. Easily fixed - we built a new one in the same style.

At that stage we thought "oh what the hell" and found ourselves replacing all the shelving throughout to match the new furniture.

This morning I was looking at our pen - some of the timber work on the jetty looks a bit run down and .......
__________________
mico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 06:05 PM   #4
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20
Send a message via AIM to SilentOption
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mico View Post
Another option (but not one for the faint hearted) is to remove all the teak trim ......
I did remove some trim and some removed itself when I touched it with a sander.

I have scraped and rubbed. Alot.

Some of the varnish is really stubborn but I am slowly getting ahead.

Its the first time I have gone to such lengths to restore the wood on a boat. Usually I just put a bandaid on the problem and let the next owner deal with it. I have never established an attachment to any boat. Could be different with this one.
__________________
Bill and Sali

CSY 44

Silent Option
SilentOption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 06:12 PM   #5
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mico View Post
Another option (but not one for the faint hearted) is to remove all the teak trim by drilling out the old screw plugs with a forstner bit (assuming that the original builder did not glue but kept with the traditional method of screw and plug) take them home and belt or orbital sand them. Reinstall with new teak plugs using the original holes. Then varnish as per the usual upteen coats etc. Saves masking and avoids any accidental scratching of any bulkheads or surrounding surfaces from sanding in place.
The "fast" technique for getting the bungs off is to use a regular drill bit in the middle of the bung. Gently! It goes in, hits the screw and then you can usually just pull out the bung using the drill like a skewer if it was set properly with varnish or shellac and not glued in place. If glued in place, one is likely to splinter wood around the bung.

A good reason to remove trim is if you think it wasn't properly bedded and water could get under it. Else, just do the deed of scraping and sanding on the boat, its much easier, cheaper, and less risky to the boat than the removal of trim and properly re-bedding the trim. It doesn't take a lot of effort to scrape off the old varnish UNLESS it's not varnish but rather polyurethane or another 2-part (plastic) finish--those are a bear in comparison to remove. When you remove trim, you've usually got to replace a few of the fasteners and of course you will replace all the bedding material--that takes it into the "not worth it range for us. Rather than masking with tape, you can protect adjacent surfaces with a bit of doorskin (thin plywood) or even metal flashing material that you can move along with you as you sand or scrape.

If you've gotten the trim off, why didn't you just varnish it off the boat? You can get it into a controlled environment w/o so much dust, bugs, etc and it goes faster, too. Of course, there's the whole re-bung issue which requires sanding off the new bungs and touch up of those once the trim is back on the boat, but still....

Yea, its hard to put "new" stuff on the boat and not have all the old stuff look pretty sad. Keeping all the "new" in the same style and wood as the "old" really helps. Further, if the "old" is made of teak, you can simply re-finish it to a lovely "new" look without having to put in new wood at all.

Have fun with all your projects
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 07:45 PM   #6
Rear Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 332
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redbopeep View Post
The "fast" technique for getting the bungs off is to use a regular drill bit in the middle of the bung.
Your point exactly - we did take all the trim home where we could set up a dust free area - worked a treat.

I'm not sure what size plugs others might find on their vessels but a 10mm forstner bit, drilled into the center of the existing plug gave us a clean hole that quickly revealed the screw. With a little care we were able to remove the trim without any splintering. We purchased some tapering plug cutters and made new teak plugs and after a very small dab of epoxy glue in the hole, the new plugs were gently taped in and cut flush. Tapered plugs work well with any slightly oversize holes but you do need to tap them in gently or they will split the timber.

I agree about the refurnishing of old teak rather than buying new. One advantage we have is that over the last year or two I have helped a number of friends refurbish their yachts and have been amazed at how much 'old' teak trim is simply ripped out and discarded for a more 'modern' look. Usually you'll find me scouring the scrap bins and returning home with a boot full! Even odd shaped trim can be run through a router and give a new lease of life.

Another inspiration had us doing the rounds of second hand shops to purchase chairs and lounge suits from the late 60's early 70's era. Many of these here in Oz were constructed entirely of teak and painted. A 4 seater lounge we purchased for $50 yielded almost all the material we required for the new bookcase after it was dismantled and recut and finished. A set of old teak kitchen chairs now have a new life as part of a companion way ladder, nav desk, shelves and instrument covers. There's nothing quiet so satisfying as rescuing 'tip bound' furniture and giving them a new lease of life afloat.
__________________
mico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2009, 10:09 PM   #7
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

Check this link - It could also be linked to our Wiki :-

Click HERE
__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 01:25 AM   #8
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20
Send a message via AIM to SilentOption
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMNETSEA View Post
Check this link - It could also be linked to our Wiki :-

Click HERE
Thanks for the link.

It confirmed a lot of what I know and and have been told already about paint and varnish removal.

Since starting this project I have tried sanding (mechanical), heat and chemical stripping.

Anyone who thinks heat is the cheapest, or easiest or fastest method of removing paint or varnish must be kidding. I found heat to be slow and marginally effective on flat surfaces but trim is round and concave and other shapes that my limited vocabulary can't describe.

Sanding has worked fairly well but has the same limitations as heat as far as I'm concerned.

Chemicals have worked on everything so far.

I have been using a scraper and stripping pad similar to if not exactly the same as a what you might use to clean a barbecue grill.

The biggest problem I have encountered with stripping fluids is which one to use. I have been through several and there is still some varnish that refuses to budge.
__________________
Bill and Sali

CSY 44

Silent Option
SilentOption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:15 AM   #9
Moderator
 
redbopeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,186
Default

I've been taking off a lot of old varnish and poly. Try a scraper aka shavehook. I have the following one:

link

The blade runs perpendicular to your wood that you're scraping. Works great. The blades are razor sharp. Blade shapes on this one are limited:



But others have more blade shapes or you can carve your own shape for a specialty scraper to fit a particular profile.

Best of luck--and patience!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOption View Post
Thanks for the link.

The biggest problem I have encountered with stripping fluids is which one to use. I have been through several and there is still some varnish that refuses to budge.
That is when mechanical methods work best.

Regarding heat--we had a team of 3 guys spend 10 days removing all the paint from our entire boat hull (54' length on deck, including a full keel), cabin trunk, etc. Not the varnish which I did, just the paint. They used heat and scrapers (of the larger variety you see at the big box home store). Heat only when the scraping alone wouldn't do it.
__________________
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda

What we're doing - The sailing life aboard and the Schooner Chandlery.

redbopeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 02:41 AM   #10
Ensign
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20
Send a message via AIM to SilentOption
Default

I found with heat I had a hard time keeping it localized. I ruined some paint adjacent to some trim. I will admit I am very impatient and might not have been as careful as I could have been.

So far the chemical stripper and light sanding has been best overall for my application. I have a variety of scrapers like those that you posted. On broad flat surfaces scraping worked well.

When the guys scraped the hull did you notice many gouges when they were finished?
__________________
Bill and Sali

CSY 44

Silent Option
SilentOption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2009, 04:38 AM   #11
Admiral
 
MMNETSEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,067
Default

When using chemical strippers I find that soon after application, the amount that was brushed on is deactivated in the chemical reaction process, in a very short period of time - the activated area with the softened paint/varnish should be removed asap. With old varnish that has been out in the tropic sun and 2 part polyurethanes are the most stubborn - often requiring several applications of stripper to enable shaped scrapers to get at the resultant gunge.

Richard
__________________

__________________
MMNETSEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A NEW VARNISH - COELAN : Is It Magic ? krissteyn General Cruising Forum 3 09-28-2015 10:16 AM
Rust Stain Remover JeanneP Living Aboard 5 12-01-2012 09:24 PM
Vanishing Varnish redbopeep Living Aboard 1 12-22-2010 05:03 AM
Varnish Or ? MMNETSEA Repairs & Maintenance 8 09-16-2009 05:22 PM
Varnish....or not Nausikaa General Cruising Forum 18 04-25-2007 10:37 AM

Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0