Chart Trading

[taisho]

It seems to me that this site would be a perfect venue to allow cruisers to hookup and trade charts. A designated section where a boat could give its present port .its previous route (charts for trade) and its intended route (charts wanted).

[Nausikaa]

Thanks for the suggestion Taisho. It certainly has merit and will be considered by the Skipper and his crew (read Admin & Mods).

One thing I have learned through this forum and the running of a website for a development project in southern Africa is that there are a lot of dynamics involved. To be BEST we have to stay ahead of the game and our members have to get what they are looking for. So, Cruiserlog members, I encourage you to follow Taisho's example and come with suggestions for improvements.

We, the Skipper and crew, will consider the merits and practicalties of every suggestion and will do our best to incorporporate those which will benefit us all, bearing in mind our objectives of maintaining this as a warm and friendly place for cruisers to exchange information and experiences as well as voicing (in friendly terms) their opinions.

Aye // Stephen

[svtadpole]

I too would like to see a free nautical charts exchange ... especially ENCs (Electronic Nautical Charts) ... whilst some are freely available in the public domain eg. the excellent US series by NOAA, other ENCs produced by many commercial & governmental cartographers are subject to copyright protection ... therefore, if this forum were to develop an ENC exchange then it would probably find itself subject to legal proceedings for breach of copyright law ...

[redbopeep]

Originally Posted by svtadpole

I too would like to see a free nautical charts exchange ... especially ENCs (Electronic Nautical Charts) ... whilst some are freely available in the public domain eg. the excellent US series by NOAA, other ENCs produced by many commercial & governmental cartographers are subject to copyright protection ... therefore, if this forum were to develop an ENC exchange then it would probably find itself subject to legal proceedings for breach of copyright law ...

Not being an intellectual property lawyer--and I figure that you're not either--I'll leave such discussions of legal proceedings to others.

One can always read the copyright on the purchased chart to determine the extent of the copyright. I've only used NOAA charts or other open source electronic media so don't know the copyrights on commercial issues of charts. If the copyright reads as many other things copyrighted--books, videos, etc--then one can trade or sell the item as long as one does not make a copy and keep a copy for one's own use.

Lawyer or not, we can all understand that copying something and then selling or sharing it isn't within the spirit of respecting the copyright owners' rights--UNLESS the copyright owner allows such copying. Read the fine print and contact the copyright owner when in question.

[Nausikaa]

Nor am I a copyright lawyer but I have noticed that second-hand paper charts are frequently offered for sale or exchange despite the same copyright laws applying to them. This notwithstanding, we see no legal actions but as soon as digital chart sales occur we might - an absolutely will if they are copied.

Aye // Stephen

[JeanneP]

Copyrighted charts are about the same as a copyrighted book. *You can't reproduce the content without authorization and proper acknowledgement. *However, you can resell a used copyrighted book without consequences. *Same with copyrighted charts.

Electronic charts, however, seem to have a different type of copyright. *For example, US charts have no copyright, and NOAA posts them to its web site for anyone to download and use. *The chips that West Marine or other chandlers sell might have copyrighted charts for which they have paid for the right to reproduce on a chart chip, or it might have charts that are NOAA charts and thus not copyrighted, but the chip is sold with the caveat that it cannot be duplicated, as with computer software that comes on a disk. *I do not think that it is illegal to resell the chip itself, however. *In other words, the "publication" of the chip is done once, and paid for. *It cannot be copied which would result in two chips for which one was paid. *But I believe that, as with a book, the chip itself is a resalable item no different from selling a used anything that is either patented or copyrighted.

[Nausikaa]

That is exactly my understanding too Jeanne. If it were not so, there could be serious problems when one, for example, inherits a chip.

It is the act of reproduction and sale of the reproduction that is illegal, ot the r-sale of the original.

Any legal eagle out there who can give a definitive answer?

Aye // Stephen

[Lighthouse]

Most software/chips usually state that after purchase you may make a (single) back-up copy (for the purchaser's own use).

The problem, as I see it, is when someone purchases a piece of "software", makes his back-up copy and then sells the original. This process could be repeated over and over. There will of course be problems down the line for the software updates.

The policing chain is impossible.

My advice is to bite the bullet and make a legal purchase with access to updates. With charts, your life could depend on it.

IMHO

[Nausikaa]

Agreed Lighthouse. The ability to update the charts is a very important one.

My interest is purely from the legal side. Just being curious I suppose.

Aye // Stephen

[Aquaria]

The problem, as I see it, is when someone purchases a piece of "software", makes his back-up copy and then sells the original. This process could be repeated over and over. There will of course be problems down the line for the software updates.

Yes Lighthouse, isn't the creation of a backup copy just a right you earn with the original software you buy? The agreements that come along with the original software authorizes me to make a legal backup copy that belongsto me as the one who purchased the software. In agreements we most likely can read something like "you are not allowed to make unallowed copies" or that you have to pass along the back-up copy when passing on the original, or you have to destroy it, (because then it is an unallowed copy, if you no longer own the original).

And did anybody check, what happens, if you purchase or receive a used software (with back-up copy or the certanty that the former owner will no longer use this software), where the previous owner has registered and had made use of an update service? Can the new owner use this same update service? Waht happens, if you try to update from a different computer? I have been wondering about this point ever since and never yet received an answer .

So, I stick to buing used paper charts. Very easy, no problem with copy right - just the work of manually updating the charts after the nautical corrections for mariners, all seafaring nations offer online. It's fun work to draw in the little corrections or print out the inserts and place them in the charts.

Cheers

Uwe

SY Aquaria