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06-20-2012, 08:20 AM
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#1
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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Wind Generator, which one?
Hi guys,
Long time no chat! Did you miss me?
Anyway, I've started refitting SV Chiara Stella for the next big adventure -- a lap around the Pacific, over the top (of Australia), through SE Asia and then on to the Indian Ocean. One thing I've gotten to is the wind generator.
I currently have an Ampair 100 which I'm reasonably happy with, but at 100W max it's probably a bit underpowered. I'm looking to replace it, and the 3 candidates that are most easily available locally are:
* Ampair 300, $2410. As an extra, Ampair will offer me a 100W towed generator for $1475 which I'm considering. Excludes controller.
* Silentwind 400W, $1995, excludes controller.
* AirMovPower 400, Southern Circle Distributors | Wind Mills | AirMovPower 400, $950, includes controller.
Now I've heard pretty good things about the Ampair but at more than double the price of the cheap AirMovPower it's an expensive unit. Having said that, mine's been up for 10 years with no signs of any issues.
The AirMovPower is a strange beastie -- check out the web page. It's a "downwind passive yawing machine which discards the tail vane and any mechanical protection joint". So it has no tail vane and the generator points away from the wind, not into it.
Does anyone have any experience with these?
What do you think?
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06-20-2012, 08:51 AM
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#2
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Capt'n
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
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My recommendation would be the Rutland 914i ...
Several of my friends have them and I did some research on Wind generators a while ago and feel they come out tops. Some people still run the original 910 Rutland ... 913's have been all the go for the past few years but now the 914i seems to be the way to go. One big advantage is they have 6 blades and run quieter than the competition. Break a blade and simply take off the opposite blade and it keeps running in balance.
Air breeze and Ampair are pretty common but not anywhere near as efficient and noisy as all hell... not popular in anchorages.
Nope I don't run a wind generator but have thought about it many times ... Hope this helps ...
Lexx
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"No matter where you go, there you are".
: https://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
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06-20-2012, 09:13 AM
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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Unfortunately the Rutland is out of the picture at the moment. With no Australian distributors nor any in NZ that I can find, I can't buy it here and international shipping would be prohibitive. I would also find it nearly impossible to get spare parts.
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06-20-2012, 09:19 AM
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#4
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Capt'n
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
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You can get them from a guy in NSW through EBay at times .. they seem to pop up for a few weeks and then disappear for a few weeks ... round $1700 including the regulator which is usually 3 or 4oo extra...
Or there is the Chinese option of the Rutland 913 copy with a 2 year warranty and parts available ..
see ... Wind Turbine 12V Boat or Off-grid Wind Generator - Chinese Rutland 913 | eBay
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
: https://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
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06-20-2012, 09:35 AM
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#5
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Admiral
Join Date: May 2011
Home Port: Bundarra, NSW
Vessel Name: None
Posts: 1,556
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__________________
"The cure for anything is salt water... sweat, tears, or the sea" -- Isak Dinesen
: All sections
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06-20-2012, 02:53 PM
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#6
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Mar 2007
Home Port: Hamburg
Vessel Name: Aquaria
Posts: 281
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Rutland Wind Generators are not the ones with the highest power rating, but they start milling at already light to gentle breezes, producing for example already 0,5 to 1 A when on neighbouring boats the three bladers stand still for hours and days.
So, imagining a day of a light, friendly breeze, you can harvest 12 to 24 Ah a day while bigger threebladers produce almost nothing.
Comparing the power ratings of different turbines is just one aspect - you should also concider the average wind situation in the area you wish to sail. So, under constant fresh to strong trade winds it might make sence to install a turbine that starts late but has a higher power rating.
If you prefer the waters with light to gentle breezes, a Rutland is imho the better choice.
I love my Rutland...
Uwe
SY Aquaria
: Germany, Background, Cruising/Sailing the German Bight
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06-20-2012, 02:57 PM
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#7
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Capt'n
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
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Rutlands are also kinder in anchorages as they are quieter ... and as I said earlier if you break a blade you simply take of the opposing blade and it keeps right on working in balance.... to me that would kind of be important although if you bought one , then wouldn't you also buy a spare blade or two ...
Lexx
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
: https://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
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06-21-2012, 03:13 AM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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OK, so you guys have almost sold me on the Chinese Rutland, since I can't get the real one nearby. Has anyone tried one of these and how reliable/noisy are they compared to the real Rutlands?
The ampair is also a very quiet windgen, being a six bladed type. It also has low startup speed and quite good output for a 100W generator -- in a 25kt blow over at LHI it pushed out 10 A continually all night, which was a welcome top up for the batteries as we'd been running the fridge all week.
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06-21-2012, 03:29 AM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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... except reading the fine print, the "Chinese Rutland 913" only ramps up to 100W at 14m/s (29kts), the same speed at which the AirMov generates 400W and the Ampair generates 320W. Since the aim is to increase power generation rather than reduce it, I'll have to exclude it from consideration. "300W" is what it generates at 55 knots, and at 55 knots of wind speed I'll have better things to worry about than whether I have power for the fridge.
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06-21-2012, 03:38 AM
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#10
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Capt'n
Join Date: Feb 2008
Home Port: Port Douglas
Vessel Name: S/V Travesty
Posts: 214
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I wonder why you asked the original question ... never mind.
I still recommend the Rutland 914i and as to there not being an Australian distributor ...
Try ... Outback Marine Rutland 914i Wind Generator
They are on the Gold Coast In Queensland, check out the specs of the 914i and the fact that Rutlands have been around for over 30 years and lots of their originals are still going... at $1700 they are not cheap but why price quality and reliability.
If I ever get around to fitting a wind generator you can bet it will be a Rutland ...
Lexx
__________________
"No matter where you go, there you are".
: https://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Port_Douglas
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06-21-2012, 08:06 PM
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2007
Home Port: Washington DC
Vessel Name: SV Mahdee
Posts: 3,236
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You might consider getting a (towed) water generator rather than another wind generator. Something like the Ferris 200 Amp-hr one shown here which converts to a wind generator for extended in port stays.
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06-22-2012, 01:17 AM
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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Yes, I'm definitely considering a towed generator as an addition. I was hoping that my Ampair could be converted but the conversion kit doesn't exist as a separate unit. I can, however, get the Ampair 100W towed generator and use my old wind generator unit as a spare part for the towed generator. I'm still trying to decide between the Ampair, the Rutland and the AirMov up top though. Apparently both will be at the Sydney Boat Show end of next month so I may go back and forth between the dealers and see which is likely to work for me.
Thanks everyone for the info so far, it gives me more to work on.
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01-27-2013, 07:13 AM
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#13
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Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Home Port: Rockport
Posts: 8
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I think you mean AQUAIR Tow Gen?? yes?? Delatbabel you need to check what your doing first. and identify all needs before you buy it. Tell us what you have now in terms of power..ie... 1. 2 batt banks 12vdc 1 crank=bank and 2 house GEL's 1 solar pan 100w ETC.
i consume 3000w a day. or My battery's go bad every three months and even/or they won't hold a charge long... Life of battery is short.
CaptRob
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01-27-2013, 07:34 AM
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#14
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Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Home Port: Rockport
Posts: 8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delatbabel
Yes, I'm definitely considering a towed generator as an addition. I was hoping that my Ampair could be converted but the conversion kit doesn't exist as a separate unit. I can, however, get the Ampair 100W towed generator and use my old wind generator unit as a spare part for the towed generator. I'm still trying to decide between the Ampair, the Rutland and the AirMov up top though. Apparently both will be at the Sydney Boat Show end of next month so I may go back and forth between the dealers and see which is likely to work for me.
Thanks everyone for the info so far, it gives me more to work on.
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Dear Fellow Sailor!
I think you mean the AQUAIR tow one?? Its cool too and EFOY . com is coming soon. Listen, you really need to tell us what your problem is here to better help you with power stuff. Oh, They can sell you anything but I detect your having problems with your setup?? Tell us what you have in great detail. Example only below:
2 Banks of battery's Bank 1=crank 12vdc Liq. 300 Amp/Hours 5 years old
Bank 2- 2 GMA's 12vdc 250 / 300 A/H 10 y/o
1 solar Panel Max 150watt
How do you charge them NOW? STEPS!!
as much as you can give your reader..
Then we can direct you to the right stuff.
Capt.Rob
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01-27-2013, 09:55 AM
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#15
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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No, definitely not AQUAIR, definitely AMPAIR.
Ampair Wind, Hydro and Packaged Power specialists +44 (0) 1258 837 266 | Ampair 100
My peak current usage tends to vary a lot. Eutectic fridge runs to about 8A but I only turn it on for 2-3 hours per day. Portable fridge/freezer tends to run as a freezer on long journeys, I think that consumes about 40Ah/day. The next biggest draw is the autopilot, about 90Ah/day if I'm on passage where it's required (I also have a smaller draw autopilot and a windvane which draws zero, so it's an either-or thing). Other electronics about 15Ah/day, so I'm guessing my total draw is about 90Ah/day without the autopilot but maybe up to 150Ah/day with it.
I have 210Ah @ 12V worth of batteries, Trojan 105s.
Currently I have one solar panel @100W and the wind gen @ 100W so I do have to run the engine a bit to keep everything going if I'm doing so at full load. With just the small fridge unit running as a fridge, no eutectic unit, and no autopilot I can sit around at anchor indefinitely without needing to run the engine -- all of my water pumps bar one are manual, and I have a manual head pump and low wattage LED lighting throughout so I'm reasonably efficient.
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01-27-2013, 09:55 PM
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#16
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Ensign
Join Date: Jan 2013
Home Port: Rockport
Posts: 8
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Thanks, Need a little more info here!
Hi delatbabel,
The one thing I don't want to be doing here is to assume, as to how many batteries you have and what you do with them and how you are maintaining them. However, this is one of the most important area's of a good life of a battery and how well it will supply you the ever-lasting Ah's in it’s lasting battery life. So many people think that typically, if we put into our battery a 50% of charge then we get 50% output back out. This is typically not the case. There is many factors to take into consideration here.. and that’s why I’m asking the questions. The answer to this is typically 50% out or typical to 25% given under perfect conditions.
So to help you better understand what you need we need some more info as describe above. Of course, I could just add up the number's and say your taping your supply too much and you need to add more battery's or even 2 more wind generator but that's cheating and expensive and just not adjusting the sail's.. so to speak.. In a weekend boaters way "Through more money at it!"..LOL
So please! help me help you. Example: How often do you charge with and without any electrical systems applied or Attached? (engine,cell..etc). Do you use an circuit isolation switch to charge your batteries? Do you do any battery testing? If so how often? Do you do any desulfation and how often? Do you also equalize your battery's if so how often and how long? What type of charger do you have Programmable or non ? How is your charger wired to the Battery's (example? I have 2- 100 Ah battery's connected in series that give me theoretically 200 Ah. My 1st. 6v battery it’s + is connected to a house bar for 12vdc. The ground or – neg. side is tied to the next battery + side of the next(2nd) battery. on second bank one..etc) When your charging you battery's do you run your electronics while charging? if so what and how much Amp’s draw at that time?
Below: This is a sample of how to equalize from Trojan that’s your batteries brand. The funny thing is they call it “Equalizing”.
1. Equalizing “is” an “overcharge” performed on flooded lead acid batteries after they have been fully charged. It reverses the buildup of negative chemical effects like stratification, a condition where acid concentration is greater at the bottom of the battery than at the top. Equalizing also helps to remove sulfate crystals that might have built up on the plates. Note: If left unchecked, this condition, called sulfation, will reduce the overall life and capacity of the battery.
Many experts recommend that batteries be equalized periodically, ranging anywhere from once a month to once or twice per year. However, Trojan only recommends equalizing when “low or wide” ranging specific gravity (+/- .015) is detected after fully charging a battery.
Step by Step Equalizing:
1. Verify the battery(s) are flooded type.
2. “Remove all loads” from the batteries.
3. Connect battery charger.
4. Set charger for the equalizing programmed voltage.
5. Start charging batteries.
6. Batteries will begin gassing and bubbling vigorously.
7. Take specific gravity readings every hour.
8. Equalization is complete when specific gravity values no longer rise during the gassing stage.
NOTE: Many chargers do not have an equalization setting so this procedure can't be carried out.
This is a start anyway. Thanks for being patient here. This some times becomes a little involved but at the end you’ll have less headaches trying to figure out why.. to more power less expenses for replacement battery’s and stocking a lot of parts$$.
Happy Winds
Capt. Rob
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01-27-2013, 11:25 PM
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#17
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Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Home Port: Hobart
Vessel Name: Honey Bee
Posts: 127
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Have now had a Eclectic Energy D400 for 2 years. Excellent, quiet, robust, machine that produces heaps of power. Needs a solid mount as the thing weighs 17 kg. Wouldn't have anything else.
__________________
: New Caledonia, Australia.
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01-28-2013, 08:05 AM
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#18
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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Rob, all useful information but I have all of that. This is about upgrading my current wind generator, not replacing the battery system.
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01-28-2013, 08:09 AM
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 700
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svhoneybee
Have now had a Eclectic Energy D400 for 2 years. Excellent, quiet, robust, machine that produces heaps of power. Needs a solid mount as the thing weighs 17 kg. Wouldn't have anything else.
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Uesful info, I was actually considering their DuoGen unit because it can be easily converted to a water generator while on passage. Saves me having one of each. Where did you get yours from? They appear to have Australian dealers in various places.
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01-28-2013, 08:23 AM
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#20
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Commander
Join Date: Nov 2012
Home Port: Hobart
Vessel Name: Honey Bee
Posts: 127
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I tried to buy from a local dealer and was quoted $3800 delivered to Hobart. I dealt with D400 Wind Generators | Furuno Fish Finders | Marine Battery Chargers and paid $2400 delivered to my door, even after paying duty and GST. Have been able to source spares from them since - very prompt and efficient.
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: New Caledonia, Australia.
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