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Old 12-03-2007, 12:08 AM   #29
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Hi John,

In providing a few answers to your major points that you have identified :_

1. I will have a lot of travel cost added with having boats pulled and checked by surveyors could become very costly before I even find the right boat?

Don't go to survey until you have found a boat that appears in your judgement to be sound , that your fits well within your planned purchase budget , that fits your medium to long term cruising needs. When you are satisfied, then and only then get an experienced Surveyor who is independent of the seller and/or the broker. Negotiate a full condition and market value survey.If the boat is in the water have it lifted for as long as is necessary to check the hull, prop, thru-hulls etc . If on the hard - then a better and less expensive survey can be completed. Most Surveyors do not survey the engine or transmission - but will comment on appearance , Here you should get a qualified marine diesel tech to check them out.

2. So far is that I am looking for a boat no larger than 40' something 2 to 3 people can handle, large tankage ?

Your plan to keep it below 40ft is a good ploy - ie amazing the difference in the asking price between a 39ft and a 40ft -- that 1 foot saves a lot of money. Also remember that measurements in advertisements can be misleading - (a 35 ft boat with 4ft bowsprit is a lot different boat to a 39ft boat without) From a cruising point of view the waterline length is more more significant in that it determines the hull speed of the boat and to a degree the usable space within the boat. The other factor in size is that for every foot of length - the costs of mast, sails , rigging, ground tackle, propulsion system etc etc..increase exponentially. Not to forget that length is the measure of cost when in a marina , every inch is taken into account.

3. Where I start to get confused is the rigging. I have read a lot about different rigging but with the lack of experience and advice on different types best for me it is hard.

I guess you are concerned about 'Standing Rigging' , Rigging that is permanently secured such as shrouds, stays, bob-stays, martingales, and mast pendants. Usually of stainless steel - maybe the best advice as to type etc. , is still to keep it simple , strong (oversize) Norseman or Staylok fittings easier to replace and check than swage fittings. Mast , boom and spreaders; again - nothing fancy but good quality.

4. Can anyone offer advice on a way to search for the right boat? I have read that shopping on the west coast you get less boat for your money, on the north east coast better buy for your buck and south east (FL) a lot more boats to pick from. I look at this like buying a home but you can not look at the basement of a boat everything has to be checked by a professional. myself I would like to find my boat and live the first 6 months to a year on the hook around the Keys then do some traveling. I believe the best way for me to do this is move onto the boat and make more friends that day sail or short trips that will be willing to let me crew and learn the things I need.

It looks like you have already worked out a good plan yourself, add the advice already given by Jeanne, Seer, Anton and others should really help in your search.

To sum up - sit down , fix a top limit for a purchase plus survey budget . Take some time - go to places where there are active liveaboards - delivery skippers - walk the docks - look at the broker's advertisements and if you speak to them get FULL specs. Take plenty pictures - make copious notes - take time to come to a decision.



Richard
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:50 AM   #30
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While I don't have any particular physical limitations other than a few old rugby injuries which get worse in bad weather, I find plenty of resonance with your concerns about finding the right boat. My concern is that I am not experienced enough to short hand the larger boat that I want for living purposes with a conventional rig.

This leaves me - yes, it's still a work in progress - with the prospect of a smaller boat or having to look for suitable crew for the longer passages envisaged. That is until I came across freestanding rigs which can offer conventional sail plans but also include Cat boats, cat ketches, junk rigs (already mentioned earlier), wing sails etc.

At the moment and until I've got my finances together, of course, I'm still an armchair proponent of this concept but you may find it an interesting to look at some previous related threads on this site. If you want to see some examples for sale, try searching www.yachtworld.com for Freedom (older cat ketches, more "modern" 36-44 footers), Tanton (larger cat ketches with nice layout hull form) or Nonsuch (really nice, very roomy cat boats with loads of space); "Googling" Sponberg, freestanding rig will get you to a site that explains the concept and benefits of the latter.

Hope this helps; good luck with your search and everything else.

See ya.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:45 AM   #31
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Hi Peter ,

Thanks for the direction to Freestanding masts etc. Do you happen to know if there is an owners forum for either of Freedom or Tanton Yachts ??

Had a look at Sponberg - noted that he is a yacht designer with an interest in Free standing

rigs.

Richard
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:47 AM   #32
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Peter Thank you so much for your post and advice. I do not claim to know a lot but i would like to offer a few thing i have learn over the last 2 years. First off set your worries aside about handling the boat alone, there are so many people out there that are looking for a free ride back to port after dropping of a boat or just Crew for other people so they can Travel. I have look at some of the Cats out there and for me i believe they are harder to handle because of the size and the way they handle in bad weather. Yes i am sure others will disagree. With the modern age we live in there are so many aids made now that even a boat in the 50' range can be sailed with one man, Myself i would not even think of it. I will not take a long passage alone no matter what size of boat, i just do not think it is safe. With me i like a nice heavy boat that is slow when i step foot onto the boat time stops i am not in a hurry for anything. If i wanted a travel fast i would buy a plane. With that being said, give me the well built full keel slower boat that has a reliable rigging. I find it funny that people say to find a boat that will fit the type of sailing you will do, day sail, cruising etc. well to me in any case i want a very strong boat if i am out for one hour to 20 days i want to know i will return. I do not know your finances but with me, i was hurt in 05 and had a very long legal battle that is over now thank god but for that time i have made my plans no matter the amount i got i planned to move on a boat. The one thing i would like to say is please do not let lack of money stop you, the longer it is a dream the more likely it may pass. We do not get younger and the sooner you make the move the better. I am sorry if my post is a little off today but i feel down some steps and took some pain pills along with being unable to sleep. my dog was at the top of the steps and i tried to go over her well she got up right when i went to step over her. ok well i wish you the best.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:29 PM   #33
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Richard, I've been trying to find such groups for a while because I really would like to get some experience of sailing/cruising with the sort of rig which has so grabbed my attention. I seem to remember finding Freedom and Nonsuch owner's club but both seemed to be focussed locally - probably means that there aren't too many such rigs cruising out there - not necessarily a good sign! Even Eric Sponberg who you rightly point out has a keen interest in freestanding rigs and, in particular, coupling them with a rotating mast doesn't seem to know of such communities.

Johnar, While I'm not really interested in single handing all the time, there are times when it'd be nice to make shorter passages alone. The problem then is handling a bigger piece of kit when the going gets a bt tougher. Earlier this year I brought a very solid 43 footer around the south east corner of Spain with an inexperienced crew and got a hit by a persistent series of line squalls with sustained gusts of 35-40 knots - not too much of a problem but complicated by a mast furling main which decided to jam half way out - or was it in - and an engine that we could only run for about 10 minutes because even its dual Racors couldn't handle the crap churned up from the bottom of the tanks for long enough to clear the serial failures. Not necessarily an argument for freestanding rigs but certainly time to ponder the merits of in-mast furling to say nothing of making sure that the fuel tanks aren't gunged up before setting out on an otherwise simple overnighter!

I take your point about lack of money but the problem is really how you invest what you've got. I've recently been considering the higher capital cost end of the "project boat" option ie seaworthy but needing to be re-eqipped and the resounding advice here and from other forums was don't do it unless you know what you're doing, have time and/or a bottomless bank account and are prepared to put in enormous time and effort; also, of course, as has been suggested here, consider a smaller boat!

This leaves, dare I say, guys like you and me with the problem of finding/coming across a desirable/acceptable boat that is as near as damnit ready to go. I've found a couple but, while I can manage the capital expense, the weighted recurring and unexpected revenue implications put me beyond what I might call comfortable so for the moment .......

..... there's a lot to be said for the OP Yacht Club which is a pretty good place to be while waiting, Macawber-like, for something to turn up!

Sail safely; see ya!
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:11 PM   #34
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A great resource is John Neal from Mahina Expeditions. Check out his site: mahina.com John runs ocean sailing expeditions during the summer. He also helps people find cruising boats and is very honest. I think he charges about $300 and that lasts until you find a boat. Send him an email and ask how he works. I would trust his opinion.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:32 PM   #35
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Hey John,

I looked for you online for awhile, but we must have been missing eachother. I can't remember if I had mentioned Columbias? I recently sold a 30 footer with new sails, new roller furling, new ball bearing traveler, new custion, fresh motor, windless, 2 autopilots, solar panel, radar, bbq, and the list goes on for 10k. I was tired of supporting 2 boats, and I onlyn used the Columbia once a year for a day, or 2.

Keep looking you will find something like I had sold. The boat was a Puerta Vallarta vet from S.F. CA., and back. I did it single-handed. The mid 30 foot Columbias can be very solid boats, and priced right for you. Even the 43 foot is a nice boat, but a little to open down below for bad weather. That can be fixed though. Good to see you posting again.....John

P.S., let me know if you come down to Florida. Maybe we can hook up..............John
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:59 PM   #36
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It is true that Cruiserlog is also the respected forum where advice on selecting , buying and selling your cruising dream is readily available from our members with years and thousands of sea miles of experience. And it's free.
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:41 AM   #37
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Hello All,

I have a few questions about rigging today, what I would like to know is the work/cost involved in changing the rigging from a ketch to a Junk Sail rig??? I am guessing the mast and everything needs to be replaced, to me that sounds very costly. lets say it is a 38' Ketch with Displacement of 18,800 lb. I know that the price will change depending on where and when the work would be done but just a guess and the cost and work would help me a lot. From the first time i seen the Junk Rig i fell in love.

Oh also can the Ketch rigging be sold easy after the work is done? To reclaim some of the cost.

thank you,

John
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:47 AM   #38
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Hi John,

To arrive at a work/cost 'guestimate'of changing a "Ketch" into a "Junk rigged Boat" - it would be necessary know exactlly what "Ketch" we are talking about as there are countless designs for different models and sizes. Next it would be necessary to know what "Junk Rig " is the subject of the question : also many different types of junks -- see http://www.ayrs.org/Index19.html

Honestly, there are so many issues to be considered in a project of this nature - nearly impossible to answer in a forum. Even if you had a suitable KETCH in a boat builders yard and asked them for a quotation to convert it to a JUNK - doubt if you would get an agreeable answer.

The best bet is probably to find a boat that is already junk rigged as the result of a specific design criteria.

Richard
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:09 AM   #39
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Thank you Richard, I was kind of thinking it would not be that easy.

John
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:31 PM   #40
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I can say this about the transformation. My neighbor on a 29ft. Columbia went from a sloop to a 2 masted junk rig. He was very short on funds, and did all the work himself. He sold everything off, and that paid for the new material. Possibly your cost can also be covered by the sale of the rig? Sounds like a nice project. Keep us posted on that new thought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,John
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:35 PM   #41
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Just a thought but if you wanted to convert a ketch to a junk rig, you might want to start from something like a Cat Ketch which already has a couple of stayless masts - Freedoms, for example, start at about 33ft and go up to just over 40. That said, my guess is that, if you were going for one of these you might just as well stick with the existing set-up.

See ya!
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:20 AM   #42
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Hello John.

I am also new here and new to the "dream". We are in the process of selling our home and becoming debt free. We are looking for a boat in the same price range and plan to have around the same monthly income. My husband is extremely handy and I feel confident sailing with him. Living on a boat and traveling has been a life long dream of my husband and I also. We have raised four children (all in college) and feel this is a great time for us too. I love your dream and "YES" it is realistic. I have ran the numbers over and over again. With a little luck and hard work we'll all be great. Start looking for you boat now. Get your feet on board and smell the ocean! Let's keep in touch.

Darcy
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