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Old 10-08-2009, 04:57 PM   #15
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The whole thing is too complicated in our modern world. I do not want to go sailing with a lawyer.

Thanks for setting me straight. Some things are best left to dreams.

I will trade my boat in for a power boat and just travel around manhattan island.
Are you--or were you ever--actually considering a passage from NY to CA? Or was this just a dream? Dreaming is fine, but oh, you're planning what would be a lovely trip.

If you actually have plans to do this, it's a wonderful trip and I certainly wouldn't worry about it--you can enjoy some of the Caribbean, go thru the Panama Canal and have an easy passage (offshore) up to California. I have a friend who made a great trip of this kind going from CT to CA. Long trip, but wonderful. He was recently telling me about it and especially his long Pacific offshore leg which was very different than the short hops he made before passing through the Canal. When he passed thru the Canal, he was headed for Alaska and then was planning on coming back "down" the coast to San Diego where he needed to end up eventually. He says they spent 49 days on one tack--yes 49 days! on a single tack from a point on the chart about 150 miles offshore from the Canal to a point about 500 miles off shore of San Francisco, CA. Then, a broken backstay changed their plans and they came inshore for repairs.

You should have a wonderful trip should you decide to do it. What are your sailing experiences so far? Many people who plan to stay close to land do so because they're worried about lack of experience (offshore) or boat condition. Are these the issues for you? Perhaps you could pick up some time on someone else's boat to gain some offshore experience if that is an issue. Or, perhaps you might wish to open a topic about prepping your boat for the passage if this is an issue?

fair winds,
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Old 10-08-2009, 05:08 PM   #16
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I think he's been having you poor guys on. Nobody considers cruising that far with a bit more knowledge than he's shown. And he doesn't want to go sailing with a lawyer? Any different from driving? Got to know the laws before you set out.

Nah, he's not planning anything. Just a troll, I think.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:03 PM   #17
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I think he's been having you poor guys on. Nah, he's not planning anything. Just a troll, I think.
Ah...not leading poor me on...I love to dream of passages to be made And love to discuss them. I would be almost certain that other folks here are the same way. A story here and a story there...makes you want to go a voyaging doesn't it?

On the "reality side" ... there are always practical matters of timing the trip and planning where to go and what to see along the way. The cruising wiki is helpful and we've got a few members here with lots of cruising experience--both coastal and offshore--who chime in with advice.

Perhaps our member here is just dreaming--but I always remember the saying that "only those who dare to dream can make a dream come true"

Fair Winds.
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Old 10-09-2009, 10:49 AM   #18
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I am sure you are right int that fredwjensen has been trying to lead us on but that's ok. There are a lot of people out there wondering about different things and answering questions posed by unserious people actually disseminates information to others who benefit from it.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 10-09-2009, 05:10 PM   #19
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Stephen--I agree 100%
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:06 AM   #20
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Ah...not leading poor me on...I love to dream of passages to be made And love to discuss them. I would be almost certain that other folks here are the same way. A story here and a story there...makes you want to go a voyaging doesn't it?

On the "reality side" ... there are always practical matters of timing the trip and planning where to go and what to see along the way. The cruising wiki is helpful and we've got a few members here with lots of cruising experience--both coastal and offshore--who chime in with advice.

Perhaps our member here is just dreaming--but I always remember the saying that "only those who dare to dream can make a dream come true"

Fair Winds.
Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
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Old 10-11-2009, 02:22 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by fredwjensen View Post
Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
Hello Fred,

Well, not sure how to answer the above quote, it has points which may have value - am still trying to digest "real internet hipster dispressing jerks"

Wonder why it has been difficult to answer the few questions that have been raised ?

Returning to the beginning; The Topic is opened :-

Sailing From New York City To California

No indication of which passage is planned eg N.W. Passage? or a passage via Northern Norway? or via Panama Canal or Cape Horn.

Planning to travel the world along coast lines.

Is this plan different from the Topic ?

Is a Visa required for every county I will sail offshore ?

This question was answered - yes, only when one goes ashore.

Are there any hostile countries like Russia near the Bearing Straits where a boat must stay a given number of miles away from the coast?

There are people in certain countries that pose a threat to cruising yachts - one example is Somalia.

What are the international coastal limits anyway? How may miles? This question was clearly answered.

You can't see the world if you are far out at sea. This is why coastal sailing is more interesting, my lad! True - however, not to forget that coastline seas consume the majority of ships that are lost, whatever size.

Fred, noted that you have a Morgan 26 called "Gene", was that a custom build? Would appreciate a photo. Those sailing lessons way back when with Jean Lacombe are to be treasured, He, along with Hasler and Chichester certainly pioneered small boat ocean passages.

Richard
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:13 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by fredwjensen View Post
Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
???? You just quoted ME when making this statement???? I hope that was an accident. I clearly did not "approach you with suspicion" but rather asked you directly if this was something you were really planning to do OR if it was a dream. Easy question for you to answer. When one approaches something with suspicion--that implies there is something wrong, bad, harmful...etc...with the person or topic being approached with suspicion. I really don't care if you're really planning it or if it is a dream of yours. They are equal in my book. I'm fine with your topic either way-- but would prefer to know which way it is--real OR dream to continue the discussion. Then in reply to another person, in my next post I go on to talking about dreaming and how I enjoy discussion of voyages such as yours--even if they are dreams. Finally, I agree with yet another person that this kind of discussion is helpful even if the original poster wasn't serious about the trip.

Taking you seriously, I initially asked the following: 'You should have a wonderful trip should you decide to do it. What are your sailing experiences so far? Many people who plan to stay close to land do so because they're worried about lack of experience (offshore) or boat condition. Are these the issues for you? Perhaps you could pick up some time on someone else's boat to gain some offshore experience if that is an issue. Or, perhaps you might wish to open a topic about prepping your boat for the passage if this is an issue?"

Do you plan on answering my questions? Or just complaining? I suggest that you follow through with some reasonable answers to my questions and respond reasonably to some of the nice folks here who are trying to help you.
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Old 10-11-2009, 08:42 AM   #23
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Some of you on here are very dispressing, you look at every thing and everyone with great suspicion. This is a dream voyage I have had since I was 14 years old. I took sailing lesson's with Jean Lacombe the record breaking French solo sailor about his boat the Seahorse. Now that I am retired, I am contemplating actually making this dream journey. But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
Taking you seriously? I took you very seriously and put a lot of effort into my replies re UNCLOS. But, as I stated earlier, it matters not to me if you were or were not serious as the answers to the questions will always benefit someone.

Regarding your dream since you were 14: that, I think, is magnificent. If we did not dream then no voyages of discovery would ever have been made. Hold fast with your dreams and, if possible, turn them into reality cautioned solely by the fine words from Seven Pillars of Wisdom, "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."

~ T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)

Why not share your dream with us? New York to California would normally imply a cruise down the eastern seaboard, the Caribbean, Panama Canal and then up the west coast of Central America before fetching California. A lovely voyage with the possibility to visit many countries en route. Is this your dream or do you dream of more adventurous things? N.Y. to California via the North West Passage or even the North East Passage? N.Y. to California via the five southern ocean Capes (well, it would only be four in reality as you would skip Cape Horn unless you headed up the South Atlantic and through Panama) ?

Share your dream with us. We do want to know because each and every one of us here is a dreamer too. Were we not, we would but debating the merits of beekeeping or philately (not that I am knocking either). Tell us what you would like to do and we can provide you with a host of information because wherever you want to go there is bound to be a CruiserLog member who has already been there.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 10-11-2009, 09:55 AM   #24
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But the nasty " self proclaimed hipster's" on think I am some internet high school jerk. It is true that we live im a hopless unbelieving generation. Thanks, I think some of the real internet jerks are those on this site.
How wrong! I admire the members that have taken the time and really made the effort to assist you on this thread - made no easier by your own lack of good "reply" and information to help those attempting to answer your questions.

I would say that some appreciation is due by you instead of the type of comment you posted above.

IMHO!
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Old 10-11-2009, 12:58 PM   #25
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I've yet to comment on this topic because it is one near and dear to my heart... not going from NY to CA, but in fact the idea of doing a coastal circumnavigation... as Fred said, staying close to land to more intimately experience the countries you are passing by. I agree this would take a lot of planning for visas in many countries cases but at the same time if undertaken with the right planning and mentallity could be done safely. For me this is mostly a dream, I think, but one I have devoted countless hours dwelling on... and who knows I'm still young enough that I may get a bug one day and set off...

While I agree there are endlass hazards in coastal waters, particularly the ones that are not well charted or highly variable, but the remedy to this in my mind is to have the right boat. My choice of vessel would be something along the lines of a sailing dory, or a bilge keeled version of George Buehler's Little Big Man, with an extreme shoal draft and strong enought o shunt a rock at slow speeds, if the weather looks even slightly nasty you tuck up a river or inlet and beach her and hide out till the weather is perfect again, in the case of strong currents the passage would just have to be planned to use them, not fight them... and as for pirates... most pirates I've met (while doing VBSS [visit, board, search, and seizue] in the indian ocean a few years ago) are just fisherman or farmers who see an easy target of value and take it, not cold blooded killers (though these do exist no doubt) ... if a person was in a boat of little to no value and appeared to have nothing of value most of them wouldn't give you a second glance, having a lateen rig might also help as you would better blend in with local fisherman in many of the dangerous areas...

just trying to keep the dream alive... feel free to pick my solutions to bits... It's all food for thought.
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Old 10-11-2009, 03:05 PM   #26
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... most pirates I've met (while doing VBSS [visit, board, search, and seizue] in the indian ocean a few years ago) are just fisherman or farmers who see an easy target of value and take it, not cold blooded killers .
With this I concur completely but there is a flaw. What is worthless for thee and me is, relatrively speaking, a fortune for someone else. A cooking pot is something you could give away rather than risk an argument never mind your life, but for a person with nothing at all in this world it may represent a fortune and is therefore worth killing for.

The thought of a coastal circumnavigation is attractive and , as you pointed out, under the right circumstances you can run for cover hiding behind an island, running up a river etc but there are many stretches of coastline in this world which offer little if any shelter. I used to live in Namibia and I can promise you that with just three exceptions, Walvis Bay, Luderitz and Elizabeth Bay (which you are not allowed to enter anyway) the Namibian coast offers no shelter at all. There are other similar coastlines such as Peru and northern Chile.

It is a nice idea but one which cannot be universally applied.

Aye // Stephen
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Old 10-11-2009, 04:45 PM   #27
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indeed.... areas like that add a specific element to the planning... the boat must be shoal enough to venture into shallow inlets but also hearty enough to undertake the longer passages required to leap around these unhospitable coasts.....

again the Little Big Man (http://georgebuehler.com/Little%20Big%20Man.html) with added bilge keels strikes me as a nominee.... heavy built enough to the limited offshore passages but still small and light enough to kedge off a landing.... or Devlin's Sooty Tern perhaps (http://www.devlinboat.com/sootytern.htm), again with bilge keels added and/or possibly converted to a swing keel... ....

As you might guess this is one of my favorite pass-times, just sitting around thinking about the best boat for different purposes, looking at plans and figuring out the mods that would be required to fit specific situations....

and I do agree on the value of items to other peoples the inherent risks in a trip like this.... which is why it will probably always remain a dream... but the dreaming is still fun.
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Old 10-11-2009, 05:11 PM   #28
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I wholeheartidly agree. Dreaming and planning is more than half the voyage.

I am still a bit sceptic though when you have a coastline with no bays are harbours, such as the Skeleton Coast. There is no port of refuge, unpredicatable currents and on-shore winds. Even if you could run ashore there and survive the sea you would be unable to refloat as the sand is moving and carries wrecks a long way inland.

Interesting idea though and one which I too would like to examine more closely. In my days at sea, particularly in the merchant navy, I sailed past way too many interesting places.

Interesting boat the Little Big Man. If I was looking seriously at that design, I would want it in steel for the sake of strength.

Aye // Stephen
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