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Old 01-04-2008, 06:34 PM   #1
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Really good photo essays:

"Replacing Through-Hulls"

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_thruhulls

"Repacking a traditional stuffing box"

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:10 AM   #2
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I really hope ie did not forget to coat the raw laminate with top-coat/epoxi before assembly!!
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:43 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haffiman37 View Post
I really hope ie did not forget to coat the raw laminate with top-coat/epoxi before assembly!!
Please explain what you are suggesting in this comment ? not sure whether this is a question or a statement.

Better still if you return to the website , there is provision for you to make a suggestion at the appropriate stage of assembly of the through-hull and seacock - page 2 deals specifically with this stage and invites comments. By doing that others may find your input useful when they perform similar operations.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:04 AM   #4
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I have too often come across loose through hulls on older boats, and cases where laminates have been dammaged by water in the area due to no coating of the holes after drilling. People spend thousands on osmosis repairs and epoxi coating of the bottoms, but too often forgets the small details when doing things like this. There is a mentioning of 'gelcoat' in the last sentence, but not quite sure what he means.

Looking at the atachment of the backing plate on the inside, he seems to have used Plastic-Padding with fiber or similar, but I see no traces of removing the top coat before doing it. If so it will create a perfect situation for 'capilar leakage' after some time as Plastic Padding does not bond to top coat.

There is no mentioning of type of sealant to be used, which is another thing. Personally I preferr the Sikaflex products for this kind of jubs, but it is important to use the right type and PRIME all metal parts with acid primer before applying sealant to be sure the Sikaflex/sealant bonds to the material.

Another tip when ataching metal components on fiberglass (port holes, through hulls, stachions.....) using sealant like silicone/Sicaflex is never to fully tighten at install. Leave a 'gap' of 2-3 mm, let dry out 24-48 hours and then tighten. That way one avoids that the metal part cuts through the sealant and gets in direct contact with the fiberglass/gelcoat .

It is the small details that does it in the long run.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haffiman37 View Post
There is no mentioning of type of sealant to be used, which is another thing. Personally I preferr the Sikaflex products for this kind of jubs, but it is important to use the right type and PRIME all metal parts with acid primer before applying sealant to be sure the Sikaflex/sealant bonds to the material.
As previously suggested reference to the original website's excellent description found in :-

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_thruhulls

The mention of the sealants is clearly provided :-

1. See the chapter on page 2 , 7th June "Flange Adapter with Bronze Ball Valve ready to Install" carries all the details of the sealants used in this procedure.

2. See also the final chapter on page 2 "External View of installed Through-Hull"

A careful read should reveal that most of your useful comments have already been covered.
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Old 01-06-2008, 03:43 AM   #6
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I still se no coating of the laminates PRIOR to installation, which was what my original comment was about, in fact his last pic after one year of use still shows no coating.

I admit I missed his 291, I got a bit hooked up in his condemning of the 3M and its bonding. Personally I would preferr any thing going through my hull to bond at the maximum. I do not concidder through hulls being 'fast moving parts' and if some extra work is needed to get them changed after 20+ (?) years, I do not mind.

But we all have our ways of doing things.
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
I still se no coating of the laminates PRIOR to installation, which was what my original comment was about, in fact his last pic after one year of use still shows no coating.
I assume that what you mean by "laminates" is the Balsa or foam core of a cored hull. I don't think there are any modern GRP boats with a core below the waterline, so I'm not sure that there is any need to paint the hole with resin, particularly since it will be caulked well before the through-hull is installed. A good caulking compound is going to keep the water out. If it doesn't, it's not a good caulking compound.

His picture of the finished through-hull is after one season's use, which is about the same as the sailing season in Norway - May through September. If you mean a coating of the "laminate" to mean the bilge area, why? It's a rare boat that has its bilge gel-coated - certainly our Jeanneau didn't.
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:09 PM   #8
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Hi All,

I'm the author of the article in question. On the hulls exterior I did use a epoxy barrier coat to seal the substrates surface before installing the through hulls and I do mention this in the article. Unfortunately these articles are sometimes low on my prority list while I'm physically working and sometimes I foget to bring the camera hence no photos of the exterior being barrier coated.

As for the interior can you please expound on why I would need to "expoxy seal" an area of the bilge that see's no sitting water on the interior of the boat? I think I'm as curious as many are with this comment.

As you can see from the last photo on page two I ground away the gel coated surface, which was purely for show from the factory because I can see where it ends on the other side of the bulkhead, to get good adhesion between the fiberglass backing plates and the hull. The dust was then cleaned up and the surface cleaned with acetone before using a polyester resin filler with fiberglass strands to glass the backing plates to the hull.

Most manufacturers do not coat the entire interiors of hulls with gelcoat or epoxy and only do the insides of cabinets, lockers and the bilge. The bilge, where sitting water would be is obviously the most critical and does need to be coated. My boat is no differerent in this regard and many areas of the bilge that are non visible are not coated with gelcoat. She's a 1979 so if osmotic blistering was going to occur, on the inside of the hull, I probably would have been seen by now.

Perhaps I did not under stand the question but from how I read it I tried to explain it the best I could. The material holding the backing plate in place is fiberglass not "Plastic Padding" I don't know what "plastic padding" is? Before the fiberglass was applied the original gelcoat was removed to create solid adhesion to the actual fiberglass of the hull.

During this process I glassed one of the backing plates in place and then realized it was off by 1/4 of an inch from where I needed it. USER ERROR DUH! I could NOT break this plate free from the hull even using a hammer and crow bar. I know this is not a preffered method for removal but I only tried a hammer and crow bar because this was within less than two hours of glassing it in and I though it might just "pop free" thinking it was not yet fully cured but it did not! I wound up spending the next two hours grinding the backing plate out of the boat only to begin again. If you're worried about strength don't...!

PS. I do plan on re-gelcoating the interior of the locker where the seacock on page two is located. I'll do this strictly for the aesthetic appeal but I did not have time to do it last year before launch..
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Old 01-06-2008, 10:46 PM   #9
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Hi Mainesail,

Good to have you on board !!!

A prize to have the originator of an excellent article - well written which made it easily understood - good illustrations and above all, really relevant to our cruising maintenance jobs.

Questions :-

Does Marelon have an advantage over bronze for a through-hull ?

From your 'nom de plume' do you ever get to Brooklin ?

Looking forward to more!

Richard
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Old 01-06-2008, 11:25 PM   #10
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Richard,

Marelon most certainly does have benefits! Marelon will never corrode! I wanted to use Marelon on this project but was personally scared away over the broken handles I've had in the past with my own previous use of Marelon. They claim to have made the handles stronger but once you get a bad taste it's tough to go back sometimes. To make matters worse the company did not stand behind the product for me. I was lubing them and maintaining them as directed but they still jerked me around and refuseed to even give me new valves. Here are a coule of pictures of one of my broken valves. Install what ever allows you to sleep at night!



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Old 01-07-2008, 02:27 AM   #11
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JanneP:

I have yet to find an area in my Jeanneau SO37/2002 not top-coated. The inside of the hulls are not gel-coated but top-coated. Basically the same 'stuff' except for the wax solution. Gelcoat which is sprayed/rolled on the moulds does not harden out completely until it is covered by the laminates, where as top-coat haardens out in open air.

Laminates are the build up of epoxy/polyester and fibergalss layers and has nothing to do with balsa cores. In that case You are entering into a sandwitch design.

Top-coating the inside of a hull might be somewhat of a double edged sword as it blocks moisture/water (partly) from getting into the laminates from the inside (condensation mainly), but it even prevents the laminates from ventilating out humidity. This is perhaps the main reason that such an effort is put into preparation of the outside hull by aplying barrier coatings and epoxi. To prevent water from entering into the laminates from the outside. The highest risk of intrution is when cutting through the hull as one at the same time cuts the fibers. Depending on how well air was rolled/'vacumed' out at production, that is a high risk area for water intrution into the laminates. Quite often when removing old through hulls I have seen 'black holes' which is mainly a sign of rotten laminates and in those cases the cut out has not been coated before installation of the through hull. It may not have been a direct leakage through old sealant used, but over 20+ years of time condensation between the through hull fitting and the raw fibers might have caused it.

My recomendation would still be that all areas without top-coat/gel-coat should be coated prior to installation.

Mainsail:

Nice page with good photos. I just made a comment, never intended to start a 'war' .
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Old 01-07-2008, 06:34 AM   #12
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Welcome aboard "mainesail" - good to have you here.

Your photo essays are fantastic - a great resource for cruisers. Thank you for making the effort to show us all how to do things.
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Old 11-18-2008, 12:53 PM   #13
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I note a brief comment about marelon vs marine bronze. I too am having broken handle and sticking marelon valves. Assuming that one side of the brass valve is a marelon or nylon thru hull and the other side a plastic pipe are there any issues with swapping a marelon value to brass in salt water?
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Old 11-18-2008, 05:41 PM   #14
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It would likely be bronze not brass that you'd use. Brass doesn't fare too well in saltwater whereas bronze does. The concerns tend to be between different metals but I wouldn't expect a corrosion concern with a plastic and bronze. Having said that, you might be concerned if the metal part could crack or damage a plastic part just by being used. I wouldn't put a metal seacock on a plastic thru hull for this reason. I note on the picture previously posted here it appears the marelon was stripped out by the metal thread and it appears a poorly engineered design (IMHO).

We've stuck with bronze thru hulls and bronze seacocks. Wherever there's a hull penetration or a "moving part" (like a valve) we've stuck with bronze. The only places we've used marelon are hose-to-hose Y or T connections that don't involve a valve.

Best of luck to you,

Brenda
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