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Old 09-16-2009, 08:41 AM   #57
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i like this.... participating in a online school of life
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:20 PM   #58
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"Any charge above your own food contribution, personal visas and permits, etc., constitutes a "commercial venture" with dramatic and serious insurance and legal implications. Paying for any fuel, dockage, etc., makes you a "paying guest/passenger"

Intimidating as it may be and whilst I accept the crewfinder rules on this forum, following a thorough look at all threads on this subject, I would like to challenge the "cost sharing is highly illegal" school of "legal opinion" that has prevailed simply on the basis of anecdotal information from certain jurisdictions with regards to this subject, and a fair bit of guesstimating.

To my mind, the line that was drawn in this instance seems purely arbitrary without any basis in fact.

The regulation of amateur boating in the EU alone varies to such an extent that I would not dare produce any blanket "legal advice" regarding the legal and insurance implications of cost-sharing arrangements and the like for my own flag state of choice - let alone on a worldwide basis. The quote from France for instance seems to suggest that they want to stop foreign charter companies operating without VAT registration, not siblings/neighbours/acquaintances sharing the petrol or docking costs to get up the coast on their joint holiday. You just wouldn't get anyone prosecuting that. How would the courts to determine if sailing buddies are actually friends or a businessman and his/her customer?

It would be of interest to see some actual test cases from common law jurisdictions (if there are any). I would assume that outcomes would differ widely depending on the jurisdiction and the merits of the case at hand.
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:32 AM   #59
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I would assume that outcomes would differ widely depending on the jurisdiction and the merits of the case at hand.
Of course it would. And?
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:18 AM   #60
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It would be of interest to see some actual test cases from common law jurisdictions (if there are any). I would assume that outcomes would differ widely depending on the jurisdiction and the merits of the case at hand.
Sure the hypothesis that rulings made in common law cases would be interesting - however, the Regulations covering the subject are made in terms of Statutory instruments - these made by Governments either individually or collectively, not prescribed by common law.

In the case of the United Kingdom its regulations for example are amended to reflect any new regulations brought into force by the EU. SEE CODE of Practice
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:09 AM   #61
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It is in the event of an unfortunate accident that these laws/regs will be tested. The insurance company is likely to have a field day on this issue that would probably prompt criminal action as well. Personally, I would not wish to test this with my boat at stake, possibly in a foreign country. The law is the law. IMHO.

As I have stated previously, many cruisers indulge in this practice but it does not mean that it is "legal". "You take your chances"! Just don't upset a local, registered charter operator.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:49 AM   #62
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Sleep in the wheel house for $10 lol..
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Old 03-14-2011, 02:36 AM   #63
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This is obviously way too much, unless the guy is taking into account his boat amortization in the calculation of the cost.

But when it's about money, people quickly loose common sense: I had an "offer" to deliver my boat from San Diego to France at $700/day for the captain and $100/crew member (2) + fuel + food + marina fees + Panama + unexpected costs + flight tickets for everybody. This is minimum a 3 months trip and the delivery quote then turned out to be more expensive than the boat so that the best option would be to sell it for $1 to a true sea lover and buy a new one in France.
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