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Old 06-11-2011, 09:49 PM   #81
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however there are many yachts at very competitive prices in Greese & the Med in general. You might care to look into that as it would possibly have many dollars & time to be saved. Cheaper air-fairs, less cost to sail to where you want the yacht but then why not keep it in the Med?, plus it's in the ECU countries & may not attract the same penalties as one from the USA. Not my field though I'm sure you could find out with ease. My price bracket is a bit higher than yours & I was able to find 6 to 8 & more that were very competitivly priced. More than enough for me to fly from 'down-under' to purchase one, sail the Med for a few years & then sail back to SE Asia - & I'd still have money left over - campared to buying one here in 'OZ'. Sir Richard mentioned a 'Cole 33' as having more room than most 40's & he was totally correct. As an added bonus, they sail very well. I'd don't ever recall Peter Cole designing a yacht that didn't sail swiftly & with an easy sea motion. I sailed with & against Peter for over 20 years. However Sir Richard didn't mention that they are still bringing high 70's to mid 80's in $ AUD (which is mid to high 50K Euro). For that kind of money I can buy a 45' fast racer/cruiser with everything - all the buttons, whistles, 43 hp diesel, 9 sails (to play with), all the safety gear incl 10 man - in current survey liferaft (to international standards), several anchors - chain & rope, etc, etc. in Greece. For me that's a WOW & some big saving to seriously into.

You would learn a whole lot by looking into in depth - all that Uwe has written along with Sir Richard's comments & questions. Many 1000's of dollars of knowledge to be learnt ther for free. I thank them both.

'spike_dawg' said a 'gem' in that - the more yachts you look into in depth the more you'll learn & the better refined will be your wiser chosen end choice. Tnx 'spike' - the name of our property is 'Pililani' & that's way down under in Queensland, Australia.

'stelth', I'm wishing you much good fortune in your search to get the 'one' right yacht as your chosen starting point & not spend a furtune. Ciao, from down-under, james

Thanks there, all the world is my stage on this one. I scan Europe looking also and have found a few scattered around.

I'll keep an eye out for them but am struggling.

I've looked at 4 here now in the UK and what a joke, they seem to be taking the micky on what they think there boats are worth.

One agent I spoke too agrees and says it's because in the UK a yacht is seen as a luxury item afforded only by the elite few, and it has been kept that way since victorian times.

So the majority of them are way over-priced and people like me don't stand a chance in the UK unless we find one that a broker or agent is not involved in.

I will keep on my search as this is not something I need tomorrow and I still have a few months to seriously keep looking.
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Old 06-11-2011, 09:56 PM   #82
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Stealth - not that I am an expert but I live with a few miles of Brunswick Maine and can take a "first glance" for you on your behalf if you like - Solemn oath as a fellow CruiserLog mate not to take any boat away from you.

One caveat I did not include in my suggestions on how to negotiate would have been "Don't make ANY OFFER without first walking the boat!"

Been away for 8 days - sailed from Tortola to Bermuda so I have nto been in touch (An excused absence in this forum, I would hope!!).
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:11 PM   #83
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Another yacht on my radar is this one:

Catalina

40' (12.2m)

1979

$29 000

Name: Curvaceous

British Virgin Islands

This again is out of my price range but as we all know this can suddenly become with-in my price range.

It's a 40' which is slightly longer than I had planned but I reckon with help i'd soon get to grips with her.

The Catalinas in this size and year are going for 2-3 times as much so I'm expecting somethings to be wrong with her. (A real bargain if not).

If anyone reading these posts wants the yacht(s) in question, please, by all means go ahead as there are plenty out there to go around.

I would be happy as would others here if after all there hard work on my behalf someone actually listens to what they are telling me and uses it to there advantage.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:32 PM   #84
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Stealth - not that I am an expert but I live with a few miles of Brunswick Maine and can take a "first glance" for you on your behalf if you like - Solemn oath as a fellow CruiserLog mate not to take any boat away from you.

One caveat I did not include in my suggestions on how to negotiate would have been "Don't make ANY OFFER without first walking the boat!"

Been away for 8 days - sailed from Tortola to Bermuda so I have nto been in touch (An excused absence in this forum, I would hope!!).
Welcome back and definitely excused.

The yacht at your place in Brunswick is slipping out of my reach. Her name is 'DUNDEE' and they reckon she is priced to sell.

My offer as all my offers are all subject to a survey, it gives me room at the beginning of the opening round.

I just had my first offer refused by the owner a few hours ago and the agent wants me to up my offer.

The price I said was all the money I can afford, as such, this was my 1 and only offer.

Another offer is in from another party and the agent reckons since the yacht is advertised world-wide the owner will get close on his asking price, although I was told he will come down a couple of $.

The name of the yacht is a little town near Perth, called Dundee, which I know very well in Scotland.

Tthe name was actually what caught my eye in my search for C&C yachts, 34' -38'. Upon reading further I saw she lists as a very good inventory and basic inside but clean and tidy. Wouldn't take me long to convert the living room into a nice comfortable living room.

I also notice yachts with the masts coming right down to the hull and some that are attached at the top on deck.

Still reading up on all the reasons behind this and at present I prefer it bolted to the hull so to speak.

As I read on more, this again might be a totally useless way of looking at it or thinking about it. Designs always have reasons, but not all reasons are sound even though they go into production.
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:18 AM   #85
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The C&C 34 definitely not a cruising boat, also the cored hulls of that era need special attention from the surveyor.
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:20 AM   #86
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The C&C 34 definitely not a cruising boat, also the cored hulls of that era need special attention from the surveyor.
G'day 'Sir Richard', I thank you. - 'stealth' - pay much attention to both matters 'Sir Richard' has raised. I beleive yachts like the C&C 34 were perimarily designed to exploit the 'rules' & to fit into the IOR 'racing rules' catagory & are not necessarily very 'sea-kindly', roomy or comfortable & are notoriously difficult to sail & a 'son-of-a-gun' to sail down-wind or off the breaze, (with the exception of the S&S 34'). Now IMHO after 50 plus years building yachts - Richard's comment "the cored hulls of that era need special attention from the surveyor" is the understatement of all time. 'SPECIAL' attention is for sure. I'm not so sure that a surveyor could pick-up any delanination or wetness problems associated with a 'cored hull'. No surveyor that I've met in 50 years can as they all phone me to come & do a hands-on sight inspection which can take me up to 2 days in order to find out the total truth of the structural integrity of the hull & deck structure & advise the prospective buyer of just what he's getting into. I'm not sure I would buy a 'cored hull' & I am personally able to fix all those associated problems myself. Again - thanks Richard for bringing these points up as I'm sure many more cruisers will learn much about the possible difficulties associated with some yachts that are on the market. I feel anyone wishing to purchase should ask themselves - very carefully - why is this yacht being sold? Is there a problem with it that is not being mentioned? Again 'stealth' good luck - we're all behind you! Ciao, james
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Old 06-12-2011, 01:56 AM   #87
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G'day 'Sir Richard', I thank you. - 'stealth' - pay much attention to both matters 'Sir Richard' has raised. I beleive yachts like the C&C 34 were perimarily designed to exploit the 'rules' & to fit into the IOR 'racing rules' catagory & are not necessarily very 'sea-kindly', roomy or comfortable & are notoriously difficult to sail & a 'son-of-a-gun' to sail down-wind or off the breaze, (with the exception of the S&S 34'). Now IMHO after 50 plus years building yachts - Richard's comment "the cored hulls of that era need special attention from the surveyor" is the understatement of all time. 'SPECIAL' attention is for sure. I'm not so sure that a surveyor could pick-up any delanination or wetness problems associated with a 'cored hull'. No surveyor that I've met in 50 years can as they all phone me to come & do a hands-on sight inspection which can take me up to 2 days in order to find out the total truth of the structural integrity of the hull & deck structure & advise the prospective buyer of just what he's getting into. I'm not sure I would buy a 'cored hull' & I am personally able to fix all those associated problems myself. Again - thanks Richard for bringing these points up as I'm sure many more cruisers will learn much about the possible difficulties associated with some yachts that are on the market. I feel anyone wishing to purchase should ask themselves - very carefully - why is this yacht being sold? Is there a problem with it that is not being mentioned? Again 'stealth' good luck - we're all behind you! Ciao, james
James,

You are absolutely right ! The problem with that type of hull construction is that the boat has to be out on the hard for some time - otherwise moisture readings will not be helpful in determining the extent of penetration. An experienced surveyor will be able to find 'soft' spots and will know if de-lamination has occurred with the 'tap-tap' system. Then the use of ultra sound will be able to find specific areas of concern.

I have drilled 1/4" holes in a Cape North near the bottom of its integral keel . When I did vinegar smelling liquid spurted out for some hours. Later plugged the holes with glass and epoxy.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:23 PM   #88
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Stealth

While we were anchored in Bermuda (St Georges) we saw plenty of boats in the 28-34 foot range with single and double crews on them - flying flags from France and Italy mostly. Some in rather worn condition but all appear to be living the life of cruisers - tanned and happy!

On one that looked to be around 30' - as the skipper pulled up the hook and set sail, a lady came out from below with a baby in her arms! Comfort is a matter of how we define it I guess.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:08 PM   #89
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I hear all three of you and will add it to my list of (avoid as suspect).

Also the comments of the C&C's are also taken with great inside from you all here.

I'll carry on my search and I have widened to Europe but they come up in a lot of searches I do anyway.

I'll work from town to town around the med to see what I can find.

Thanks all.
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Old 06-12-2011, 07:04 PM   #90
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PEARSON

LOA: 35'0'' (10.7 m)

Year: Mfg 1977 / M 1977

MFG: PEARSON

Model: 35

$23,500

http://www.yachtcouncil.com/Used/35'0''(10.7m)/1977/PEARSON-for-sale-in-IL?Boatsforsalesearch=basicinfo&vessel=100679

Apart from what the survey may show this one is on my list of one to look out for.

If it checks out i'm sure it could be £10,000, ($16000usd) which would give me a couple of thousand to help commission her.


Also this one, although older, she has had a lot of new items and seems over-all in good used condition.

The engine is also little used hours wise, if true another bonus.



LOA:
34'0'' (10.4 m)

Year: Mfg 1969 / M 1969

MFG: ISLANDER YACHTS

http://www.yachtcouncil.com/Used/34'0''(10.4m)/1969/ISLANDER+YACHTS-for-sale-in-CA?Boatsforsalesearch=basicinfo&vessel=99850
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:38 PM   #91
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And 1 more I like the look of.

$29900

1979 S2 11a 36'

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/22395

Again with-in my price range if it comes down a bit from asking price.

I shall carry on searching.
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Old 06-13-2011, 09:16 PM   #92
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Hi again all,

I have a columbia 35', 1979 model in my sights just now, very good inventory, loads of new and good items added. Recently had her hauled and painted.

What I want, a masthead Sloop, fin keel and ready to actually go with-out any hidden extras or surprises. This has all that and more.

Been in touch a couple of times and making progress.

She is down on the Virgin Islands.

She is up for $24,900.

Now i'm told it was meant to be $29900 and he made a mistake but will honor the price as advertised. ( I also know the price is the real price and saying it was the wrong price is a great little mind-game to play on people, toss-pot he is, must think I have idiot stamped on my forehead).

I got him to email some pics and he has gone and posted them on yachtworld.com instead.

He doesn't care about anyone but himself and sees every human as a source of money, a very greedy and bad human being.

I say this because I asked about the yacht and suddenly I ask and it is now worth it's weight in gold.

If i'm interested, maybe others are so he is now playing at being a complete toss-pot as a broker/agent.

He let one thing slip and that was the owners name so i'm trying to get in touch and let them know i'm interested but I refuse to deal with there bent agent.

This yacht, along with maybe only 2 others I've seen, are in what I would call very good condition for the price.

Please let nothing be wrong with this shape, design or hold any hidden dangers or stress factors as I like this particular model of a later built Columbia.

I await all your opinions on this one.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=235679 2&ybw=&hosturl=southerntrades&&ywo=southerntrades& &units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1726&url=&hos turl=southerntrades&&ywo=southerntrades&

The link is not the agent i've been dealing with on this yacht.

Seems the whole world will sell you a boat from anywhere in the world.

I'm beginning to really detest and hate agents/brokers.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:19 PM   #93
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Hi again all,

I have a columbia 35', 1979 model in my sights just now, very good inventory, loads of new and good items added. Recently had her hauled and painted.

What I want, a masthead Sloop, fin keel and ready to actually go with-out any hidden extras or surprises. This has all that and more.

Been in touch a couple of times and making progress.

She is down on the Virgin Islands.

She is up for $24,900.

Now i'm told it was meant to be $29900 and he made a mistake but will honor the price as advertised. ( I also know the price is the real price and saying it was the wrong price is a great little mind-game to play on people, toss-pot he is, must think I have idiot stamped on my forehead).

I got him to email some pics and he has gone and posted them on yachtworld.com instead.

He doesn't care about anyone but himself and sees every human as a source of money, a very greedy and bad human being.

I say this because I asked about the yacht and suddenly I ask and it is now worth it's weight in gold.

If i'm interested, maybe others are so he is now playing at being a complete toss-pot as a broker/agent.

He let one thing slip and that was the owners name so i'm trying to get in touch and let them know i'm interested but I refuse to deal with there bent agent.

This yacht, along with maybe only 2 others I've seen, are in what I would call very good condition for the price.

Please let nothing be wrong with this shape, design or hold any hidden dangers or stress factors as I like this particular model of a later built Columbia.

I await all your opinions on this one.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=235679 2&ybw=&hosturl=southerntrades&&ywo=southerntrades& &units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1726&url=&hos turl=southerntrades&&ywo=southerntrades&

The link is not the agent i've been dealing with on this yacht.

Seems the whole world will sell you a boat from anywhere in the world.

I'm beginning to really detest and hate agents/brokers.
Hi Stealth,

I agree the presentation of that boat is like someone selling snake oil. It is loaded with information that is generally misleading - just how something can be described as new when that may have been the case 5 years ago, beats me. And on the other hand padding the boats specification with stuff like :-

"16-piece “Tropical Print” Melamine dinnerware set – new ‘06

20-piece Bamboo flatware set – new ’06

Collapsible dish rack – new ‘06

Anodized aluminum tea kettle – new ‘06

Coffee press – new ‘06"


A pretty useless set of electronics - also fitting in the word 'new'

The ground tackle with longest bit of chain 25ft is not good enough for a cruising boat.

One photo shows the inflatable dinghy - but the specs don't even mention it.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Dinghy as well.jpg
Views:	3
Size:	48.6 KB
ID:	1723

Doyle genoa in very good condition – new ‘94 -- 17 years old!!!!

It is the first time that I have seen the disclaimer inserted at the beginning of a boats specification and at the end. (covering their backs!?)

There is so much more in the way of slight of hand, that can best be described as BS.

This is one of the worst broker write ups that I've seen.

However, if all the spurious padding and age BS is removed, maybe the boat is worth <20K US ?
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:49 PM   #94
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Hi Stealth,

I agree the presentation of that boat is like someone selling snake oil. It is loaded with information that is generally misleading - just how something can be described as new when that may have been the case 5 years ago, beats me. And on the other hand padding the boats specification with stuff like :-

"16-piece “Tropical Print” Melamine dinnerware set – new ‘06

20-piece Bamboo flatware set – new ’06

Collapsible dish rack – new ‘06

Anodized aluminum tea kettle – new ‘06

Coffee press – new ‘06"


A pretty useless set of electronics - also fitting in the word 'new'

The ground tackle with longest bit of chain 25ft is not good enough for a cruising boat.

One photo shows the inflatable dinghy - but the specs don't even mention it.

Doyle genoa in very good condition – new ‘94 -- 17 years old!!!!

It is the first time that I have seen the disclaimer inserted at the beginning of a boats specification and at the end. (covering their backs!?)

There is so much more in the way of slight of hand, that can best be described as BS.

This is one of the worst broker write ups that I've seen.

However, if all the spurious padding and age BS is removed, maybe the boat is worth <20K US ?
I've learnt a bit of reading between the lines on BS.

I will use what they post or say against them as a bargaining chip so it will be in my favour.

New in 94' I thought this was a good one.

25ft of chain, great for towing fish on the end of a line but yes totally useless.

Padded out to the gunnels with crap we would say here in scotland (Although i'm in England at present).

I'm really having a hard time with my brother, my fault, as I am badgering him to come with me as my surveyor but he is moaning about time off work, etc, etc,

I'll keep at this one though.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:55 PM   #95
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Are any of you seeing or affected by the Chilean volcano, mount Puyehue.

I'm seeing the ash cloud is drifting across the atlantic and indian ocean.

I'm thinking of you Silver Raven down under, or is it just an airline precation incase the dust gets in the engines, not good, actually very bad.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:04 AM   #96
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Sanyo 13” television

Sony X-Plod CDX-GT200 AM/FM/CD stereo – new 8/08

Two Sony 6.5” XS-MP1620W waterproof cockpit speakers – new 8/08

I thought all yachts had this type of modern day inventions fitted as standard, (sarcasim).

As you say though MMSETSEA, underneath the BS there might be a good decent boat waiting to be commissioned again.

I await further details on her and am closer to finding the actual owner.

It will be interesting to see what they want for her really, compared to what the agent is selling her for.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:40 AM   #97
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Sanyo 13” television

Sony X-Plod CDX-GT200 AM/FM/CD stereo – new 8/08

Two Sony 6.5” XS-MP1620W waterproof cockpit speakers – new 8/08

I thought all yachts had this type of modern day inventions fitted as standard, (sarcasim).

As you say though MMSETSEA, underneath the BS there might be a good decent boat waiting to be commissioned again.

I await further details on her and am closer to finding the actual owner.

It will be interesting to see what they want for her really, compared to what the agent is selling her for.
Stealth,

I guess if one was on holiday in the BVI, it might be worthwhile having a look at that boat - otherwise it appears to be one those for sale that has lot more wrong with it than is being disclosed. EG. does the engine and transmission actually work?. Is the mast on the deck? etc..

Perhaps, Back to the drawing board. Maybe to rethink your project in terms of your objectives for the next few years.

C L I C K

Another C L I C K

[url="http://yachts.apolloduck.com/listings.phtml?view=1&layout=1&cid=206&fx=USD&minv =15000&maxv=28000&minl=1005.84&maxl=1341.12&ymin=1 976&ymax=1994&sort=0&limit=25&type=1"]And Another[/url

ALSO THIS ONE

ANOTHER COLUMBIA

ANOTHER CLOSE BY

AND H E R E
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:47 AM   #98
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[QUOTE=MMNETSEA;1308030046]

Stealth,

I guess if one was on holiday in the BVI, it might be worthwhile having a look at that boat - otherwise it appears to be one those for sale that has lot more wrong with it than is being disclosed. EG. does the engine and transmission actually work?. Is the mast on the deck? etc..

Perhaps, Back to the drawing board. Maybe to rethink your project in terms of your objectives for the next few years.

G'day 'stealth' - keep looking. It 'might' be O.K. BUT - Sir Richard has it right, careful there - maybe O.K. if it was just 'down-the-road'. This almost reads like - if it sounds to good to be true it sure as all heck is probably so ! ! We all wish you well. james

OFF TOPIC

Now Sir Richard, favour Please? - would you look at 'Andaman Cabriolet 39' (in google) being built in Chalong, Phuket, designed by Richard Chamberlain, etc. Might be 'close-enough' to the mark for me to go & have a look-see. About 8 things wrong with it that are - long-term - very short-sighted, but I'm sure I could get them changed. All in all - not bad & maybe a 6 out of 10, however with the 'wrongs' - righted - it could easily be a 8 or 8.5 out of 10. At least they have started off going in the correct direction & that's a change for the good. I'd really appreciate your comments & thoughts on this one. It's possible that many more multihull minded people in 'forums' might learn a lot about - how/where to start to pick the 'right' multihull. Another topic heading maybe ??? Thanks, james
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Old 06-14-2011, 07:59 AM   #99
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Hi James,

I do know the boat - I know the designer, he designed my big catamaran. I know the builders, and I have known the owner Grenville Fordham for some 12 years. I have been on the race committee when it has raced.

I have extracted some photos and put them into a pdf for you. As you will see it needs a hard bimini - also inside some area that can be locked. It is a perfect boat for South East Asian Waters. We could move it to the multihull forum once the discussion with Stealth moves on a bit.

Andaman Cabriolet.pdf
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:23 AM   #100
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[QUOTE=MMNETSEA;1308038396]

Hi James,

I do know the boat - I know the designer, he designed my big catamaran. I know the builders, and I have known the owner Grenville Fordham for some 12 years. I have been on the race committee when it has raced.

I have extracted some photos and put them into a pdf for you. As you will see it needs a hard bimini - also inside some area that can be locked. It is a perfect boat for South East Asian Waters. We could move it to the multihull forum once the discussion with Stealth moves on a bit.

Attachment 1724

G'day Richard. I can't thank you enough, as you can fully & well imagine !!!! Yes, I did remember/know that he designed your multi. I didn't know the rest. Yes, we'll move it on after 'stealth' discussion is over. A million thanks, for now, james Tnx for 'pdf' file ! ! !
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