David Crosby's Course In "southern Cross"?

[KnightAshore]

Hi All,

I am not a sailor, just a landlubber scientist...

I've been trying to put together the course of David Crosby in his song "Southern Cross", lyrics of which are here.

I think this must be around Tahiti, and I googled hard to find a picture of the course he describes(?), but I came up empty.

Maybe I'm obsessing on a song I love, together with my dreams of being an 18th century sailor. But if anyone could draw a diagram of the sailing described in this song, complete with arrows for idiots, I would be much obliged.

Mike

[JeanneP]

Avalon, I assume, is Avalon Bay, Santa Catalina. The song talks about the beginning legs of the the Coconut Milk Run across the South Pacific. First stop is usually the Marquesa Islands (Iles Marquises); then through the Tuamotu islands (Archipel des Tuamotu) to Papeete, Tahiti. A bit over 3,000 miles.

I can't post a picture, it's too big a scale. Just Google "French POlynesia" pull up a map and zoom out, and out, and out to get the whole picture.

Great song. Great trip, too.

Fair winds,

J

[MMNETSEA]

Hello Mike,

From one scientist to another :-

"Stephen Stills with help from Richard Curtis and Michael Curtis. Stills explained: "The Curtis Brothers brought a wonderful song called 'Seven League Boots,' but it drifted around too much.

It was later that Stephen who reworked the song to give meaning to the love he had lost and valued so much - rhetorical in it's depth but the images of his boat journey to the islands under the Stars of the Southern Cross give that special feeling that one enjoys on the night watch, when one is alone.What he said about the song "I was given somebody's gem and cut and polished it." In fact, the course that Stephen's boat took during that memory was probably incidental - it may have been the fabulous southern stars in their billions that light up the southern sky, and when you are on a boat, on your own, in pitch darkness with only the sound of the sea slipping past -- Magic! What memories can be invoked ?

[SailorWithoutABoat]

I do sail a bit, although haven't for a while due to a back injury. However, I like to plot courses I would take if I could. This is one of my favorites to think of. If you go to google maps. Get directions from Faaa, French Polynesia (Sofitel Tahiti Resort) to Marquesas Islands, French Polynesia. Faaa is the nearest city to Papeete Bay that they speak of. Now, they must be sailing from new zealand? Because they're sailing a reach to the trades (tradewinds). The wind is actually curving up near new zealand, so they could be sailing SE on a reach, headed for the trades. (A reach is sideways to the wind, fast sailing). At the bottom of this reach, they would hit the trades, which at that point in the ocean are blowing nearly E to W. This would put them on a reach to papeete (faaa) and like they say in the song, on the same heading as the marquesas islands. That's why he says downhill run, because they would be sailing fast again. So if you draw an imaginary line from marquesas through faaa, and then have them heading SE from new zealand or even new guinea until they hit that line, then turning port (left), they'd be headed straight toward those two island groups. That's my very best guess. (remember, I said guess. LOL) I know it's been a while since you posted, but hope you get this. Hope you get out on the water sometime. -Tom

[JeanneP]

Good, this made me revisit the song and my memories. From New Zealand anywhere East is a nasty beat, no reach, just hard on the wind. I've only met three boats that sailed from NZ east, two to French Polynesia, the other back to the US! Hard, hard work.

The trade wind route is from East to West, and the milk run from north of the Equator, and what most boats follow, is leaving Mexico or California, running on a reach to the Marquesas, then on to Tahiti, the rest of the Family Islands, and then on across the S. Pacific. (Faa is downwind and west of Tahiti).

In rethinking this song, Avalon may not be in Santa Catalina. It might be Avalon in Australia! It makes more sense in that case.

MMNETSEA did us all a favor with his picture of the night sky and the Southern Cross. What a wonderful sky it is.

[redbopeep]

Actually, it was Stephen Sills who brought this song to us. It is about a trip he actually took following a divorce according to Wikipedia. It would be interesting to know about that particular trip.

On our way back down the coast in the fall of 2010, we enjoyed an end tie in the Santa Barbara harbor with the Crosby-owned schooner Mayan directly astern on another end tie. Lovely Alden schooner she is.

Fair winds

[SailorWithoutABoat]

That would be interesting. I wonder if he did much sailing afterward or if it was just a one-time thing.

[mglover10]

Originally Posted by JeanneP

Good, this made me revisit the song and my memories. From New Zealand anywhere East is a nasty beat, no reach, just hard on the wind. I've only met three boats that sailed from NZ east, two to French Polynesia, the other back to the US! Hard, hard work.

The trade wind route is from East to West, and the milk run from north of the Equator, and what most boats follow, is leaving Mexico or California, running on a reach to the Marquesas, then on to Tahiti, the rest of the Family Islands, and then on across the S. Pacific. (Faa is downwind and west of Tahiti).

In rethinking this song, Avalon may not be in Santa Catalina. It might be Avalon in Australia! It makes more sense in that case.

MMNETSEA did us all a favor with his picture of the night sky and the Southern Cross. What a wonderful sky it is.

I am with JeanneP regarding the reach. I would think that route would be hard into it the whole way. I have never done it and not sure I would try.

But it almost HAS to be Avalon in Australia and not Santa Catalina. The lyrics give it away:

In a noisy bar in Avalon he tried to call her (assuming he did not get through to the girl). Then the next line:

'On a midnight watch I realized why twice you ran away'.
To me that means he tried to call from Avalon (Australia) , gave up and headed east on the boat. At some point on a 'midnight watch' it hits him what went wrong.

Those midnight thoughts about 'cheating lying and testing'.
What a great song!

I guess the fun part is that it can mean whatever you want it to depending on where you are in life when you listen.

To me that is a definition of a great song.

Same thing with Jimmy Buffet and Margaritaville. You hear what you want to hear depending on your mood or situation.

[redbopeep]

Thanks! for your thoughts on the song

[SailorWithoutABoat]

You all seem like such a great group of people. I've loved reading your insights into my questions about the song and glad I could bring some happy memories back for some of you. Be safe and enjoy whatever you're doing. Sincerely, Rick

[Cruisedoc]

What great posts from knowledgeable folks. In August 2019 I'll be in Papeete. I'll be looking for the southern cross. As an expatriated sailor from Florida living landlocked.

Wishing y'all the wind at your back, with 3 sheets to the wind.

[Spike_dawg]

Avalon is Santa Catalina. David Crosby is an American, born in Los Angeles and schooled in Santa Barbara, Carpinteria, etc. He would be quite familiar with Avalon, Santa Catalina. Avalon is just a short boat ride from Los Angeles.

It is a downhill run to Papeete, "Off the wind on this heading lie the Marquesas". He might have stopped at Fanning Island or Palmyra. Marquesas is difficult to reach from there because it is off the wind. Stopping at Palmyra or Fanning would break up a long voyage. Easy ride to Tahiti but difficult to get to the Marquesas if you go that far west.

Probably started from Los Angeles "Sailing a reach before a following' sea". This is exactly the sail from LaLa land to Fanning/Palmyra. Also "We got eighty feet of the waterline nicely making way". I don't think an 80 footer will fit comfortably in Avalon Harbor and you can't provision there. He would have started in LA.
"When you see the Southern Cross for the first time". This is conclusive he started in the northern hemisphere.

So sail from Los Angeles to Fanning Island then down to Papeete...maybe a stop in Bora Bora and Raiatea, as they are on the way, and part of French Polynesia. Guessing on Fanning,Palmyra, Bora Bora and Raiatea but it's the logical thing to do and the stops I made. He definitely started in Lala Land.

[Brent Swain]

Go to the Marquesas first. Then Palmyra on the way back,but only if you are rich . A nature conservatory group has put it off limits to anyone who is not rich. They ignore international law.
Fanning is a nice break going north , could be a bit of a beat reaching Hawaii from there, but skip Christmas island.The immigration lady there is a complete loonie tune. Women should not walk alone there, as rape is legal, against women walking alone .