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11-20-2007, 10:16 PM
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#1
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Admiral
Join Date: Feb 2006
Home Port: Who cares really...
Vessel Name: T
Posts: 1,215
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http://www.esquire.com/features/sailing1207
My inspiration comes partly from Ken Barnes, who was rescued off Chile in January. A man with a pool-cleaning business who dreamed for years of sailing the globe, he wanted carbon fiber, too, but couldn't afford it. So he did what most sailors on a more limited budget would do: He bought a tough old boat -- a forty-four-foot steel ketch -- and outfitted it for the expedition. By the time he set off, he had spent $250,000 and more than three years preparing.
If he spent $250,000 on his boat...none of it was on blocks or sail handling hardware.
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11-20-2007, 11:48 PM
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#2
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Admiral
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
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I don't like to throw cold water on anybody's dreams, but I can't help asking why anyone would want to do this. There are lots of challenges in the world, but what's the point in this case? Oh, well, to each his own.
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11-21-2007, 02:10 AM
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#3
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Admiral
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
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P'raps there was $20,000 worth of tools and hardware from Home Depot, and 4600 hours of his own labour at $50 per hour
= $250,000
David
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" if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!
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11-25-2007, 08:12 AM
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#4
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 323
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Reading the intent, I think Ken Barnes set stupid goals, was irresponsible, took bad risks, than lived up to them, and now is attempting to capitalize on his tragedy. He did not accomplish anything. Had he, it would be soon forgotten, except in his mind.
That happened shortly after we just took an interest in sailing and circumnavigating. Ken Barnes was NOT an example we want to follow.
Jeff and Candee
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11-26-2007, 04:49 PM
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#5
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Lieutenant
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbor_Pilot
Reading the intent, I think Ken Barnes set stupid goals, was irresponsible, took bad risks, than lived up to them, and now is attempting to capitalize on his tragedy. He did not accomplish anything. Had he, it would be soon forgotten, except in his mind.
That happened shortly after we just took an interest in sailing and circumnavigating. Ken Barnes was NOT an example we want to follow.
Jeff and Candee
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I'm inclined to agree with the general sentiment that this adventure seems ill-advised, but...there are certain people throughout history who seem determined to ensure their departure from the gene pool. The problem is how much it costs to try and save them, oftentimes costs measured in additional lives, not just dollars (or whatever the new world currency will be
seer
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11-26-2007, 08:05 PM
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#6
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
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Can you explain to me what the stupid goals were? If you mean to sail the Southern Ocean. Then why climb Everest, or go to the moon? Not everyone is meant to stay at home in the comfort of the easy chair. Not everyone is meant to sail the Southern Oceans. Most of us are somewhere in between. Have you ever read what it took just to survey the route for the continental railroad?
If his preperation was bad, and his equipment faulty then he shouldn't go. Yes, it cost lots of money to save his bottom, but if you were coastal cruising, and hit in the night by a whale. I am sure you would want your bottom saved too. Should we put a ban on adventure? Or maybe just draw some lines to what can be done, and what can't?
It is not like the rescue vessel left San Francisco with the only purpose to rescue Ken. This is a vessel in the same area coming to his assistance. I tried to google Ken's name, but could not find anything telling me if he was a shouldn't go, or prepared to go. Can anybody direct me with this information?
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11-27-2007, 01:16 AM
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#7
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Admiral
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,098
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From what I remember from reading his blog and various discussions, Ken had done no blue water sailing until he set sail on this voyage. He spent a lot of time preparing his project boat, but I could find no mention of his preparing himself. He had bad luck, perhaps, but it seemed to me that lack of blue water experience resulted in his making more and bigger mistakes than a more experienced blue water sailor would make. Small mistakes in the more moderate tropical latitudes don't have the same impact that
they do in the lower lats, the roaring forties, the furious fifties.
I don't believe that anybody who has tried to climb Mt. Everest chose that mountain as their first mountain, or did it on a budget with used gear and clothes from Goodwill or the Salvos. I also don't know of anybody who climbed Mt. Everest without a crew of Sherpas to carry gear and help with the climb.
Is there an astronaut who made a solo flight to the moon in some amateur home-rebuilt rocket?
Nobody but a fool makes his first downhill ski experience on the Expert trail. But if they do, they will usually endanger only themselves.
Race car drivers risk not only their lives, but their competitors' lives as well so they have to qualify before they're allowed on the race track, and that's driving school, and lesser competitions. You can't say "I've been driving cross-country in my Buick for the past ten years, so of course I can race on your race track."
Yet there is nothing that can stop a rank amateur from taking his uninspected, unlicensed sailboat thousands of miles offshore. I believe you have to pay your dues, which Ken hadn't done, and he paid for it with the loss of his boat, and almost the loss of his life.
The Chilean fishing boat that came to his rescue gave up several days fishing to put its crew in danger as it steamed to save Ken, then had to go out of its way the other direction to bring Ken to land. They probably had better things to do than to go rescue some Gringo on a spiritual quest.
Ken Barnes was little different from the guy with more money than brains who takes his new powerboat offshore, then asks the Coast Guard how he will find Sandwich, "are there signs?" Sailing's easy, isn't it? Just pull up the sail and follow the white line, right?
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11-27-2007, 02:58 PM
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#8
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
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JeanneP,
I see your point, and that is what I was asking for. I clearly understand all of your comparisons. It is amazing with no experience at all he left for the Horn. Maybe he assumed he would gain experience along the way.
I myself after sailing on S.F. Bay for 18 months left for Mexico alone. I had been on other peoples boats, but was only a passenger before I bought my own. I was told by many that if you can sail S.F. Bay you can sail anywhere. That's a crock of poopoo. It is a great learning place, but it is not the ocean.
I thought I was taking the Milk Run, but that year the winds were southerly. When I got to Cabo, and signed in for the 93 Baja ha ha. I was a completely different sailor. When signing in there was a request for a remark about the trip. IF THIS IS THE MILK RUN THEN I HAVE GOT LOTS OF SPILT MILK was my comment. The comment was later used in Latitude 38 to describe the weather for that year......LOL.
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11-27-2007, 07:40 PM
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#9
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Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic
It is amazing with no experience at all he left for the Horn. Maybe he assumed he would gain experience along the way.
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Unfortunately, he is not the only one to have done this. There are many stories of sailors who have put to see, often in inadequate boats, and successfully completed circumnavigations and other magnificent feats - but they were the ones who survived and could then write books about it. Examples: Shane Acton aboard Shrimpy, a young American man called Graham (I believe) and a German by the name of Wolfgang Erdmann.
Unless you have a good vessel and adequate experience then it is Fortuna herself who's hands are on the tiller. The irony of it is that without experience one makes mistakes but, mostly, experience comes from mistakes. Talk about a Catch 22 situation! The only way arround this is to gradualy gain experience by slowly pushing the limits further and further and not by jumping in a the deap end.
Now this would appear to be common sense but unfortunately it is not and this brings me to my major gripe. What is it that these 'sailors' believe gives them the right to put other yachtsmen, fishermen, merchant seamen, as well as the crews of naval and coast guard ships and aircraft at risk when they call MRCC to bail them out in an emergency? In my opinion this is the summit of egoistic behavior. No, not quite. The paramount example occured to me when I was a sub-lieutenant on a small coast guard cutter which had rescued the same man no less than six times! He would put out to sea and then, after but a few hours, would cry for help as he was lost, sick, had motor problems etc. He only gave up sailing when we, quite illegally, threatened not to tow him to port but to sink his boat if it happened again. But that is another story.........
I know I have said this before but I have another issue with this kind of behavior. People have a tendancy to tar everybody with the same brush and thus such irresponsible actions puts all cruisers in a bad light. We cannot afford this or governments will try to regulate the cruising world even more rigerously than today and, as user pays is the current creed in political circles, then we cruisers will end up paying even more for our simple pleasures.
John Masefield may have asked for nothing more than "a tall ship and a star to steer her by" and there are many who have fallen for the same desire but even the good Poet Lauriate himself had spent a number of years training for the sea in H.M.S. Conway.
Aye // Stephen
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11-27-2007, 08:00 PM
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#10
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Admiral
Join Date: Jan 2005
Home Port: Darwin
Vessel Name: Sandettie
Posts: 1,917
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Of equal concern are those with vast experience who take risks which, if they fail, are seen as heroic. For example Tony Bullimore and Isabelle Autissier. Both are superb sailors, both sailing exceedingly well prepared boats, both single-handing in around the world races, both facing huge seas in the southern ocean, both failed spectacularly, both rescued at great expense (One of them in successive races, and near the same location), both made a huge profit from their failed adventures...and, neither offered to use their profits to compensate those who took risks to save them from a miserable death.
So who poses the lesser danger to others, the well intentioned crewed-up novice who is aware of his shortcomings; or the confident, highly experienced millionaire thrill seeker, asleep on a 22kt charging torpedo?
Cheers
David.
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" if at first you don't succeed....Redefine success"!
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11-27-2007, 08:16 PM
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#11
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Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auzzee
So who poses the lesser danger to others, the well intentioned crewed-up novice who is aware of his shortcomings; or the confident, highly experienced millionaire thrill seeker, asleep on a 22kt charging torpedo?
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A good and very valid point well made.
As always people, David presents the common sense approach and a lot of insight!
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11-27-2007, 08:38 PM
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#12
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
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Take a look at the Smeetons. Twice dismasted, and rolled, but on their own they managed port both times.
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11-27-2007, 08:53 PM
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#13
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Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic
Take a look at the Smeetons. Twice dismasted, and rolled, but on their own they managed port both times.
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Sure, but they were an extremely competent sailing pair who, to the best of my knowledge and belief, have consistently shown nothing but good seamanship. Nor did they scream for the cavalry in situations in which others definately would have. They relied upon their own knowledge and ability to get themselves out of a tight corner.
Folks like the Smeetons and Tillman were true adventurers but were not inclined to take uncalculated risks. Even the man who wrote the solo sailor's cruising bible, Joshua Slocum, got himself out of many a fray but in the end he sailed out of our ken; but he too was a professional seaman who knew well the risks he took and did so sans kvetch.
Aye // Stephen
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11-28-2007, 03:31 PM
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#14
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
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As sailors, and especially us who single-hand. I thought the idea was to GET OURSELVES out of a fix. Only as a last resort do you reachout for help. I believe the actions of the Smeetons, and those like them should be the normal. We have to be responsible for the choice we have made. That choice being in a small, and fragile craft on a sometimes quite vicious sea.
Some people go to the doctor for a hang nail, and some will cut off thier own arm to save themselves, and then drive themself to the doctor. My point being some will call for help well before any help should be needed. Unfortunately here in America a lot of people expect to be taken care of, and have forgotten how to take care of themselves.
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12-19-2007, 05:23 PM
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#15
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Rear Admiral
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 396
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Here is a little update about Ken, and David Vahn a man who will follow in his footsteps, or should I say wake.
http://www.esquire.com/features/sailing1207
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