Cruising Insurance

[sniper0885]

Good Afternoon everyone, please bare with me if this question has been delt with before. i am shopping for insurance on a Isalan Packet 40 that i will be taking possession of in may. I have found a wide range of coverages and prices. I will be u.s. coastal most of the time for the next 3-4 years but would like to exceed the 75 mile restriction every now and then and maybe stray south to cancun mexico when the fancy strikes. Later on as i gain experience I would like to cruise to more exotic grounds. i would appreciate some tuterage on best methods to insure. If you have a favorite agent or company a phone number referal would be nice. Jim

[Corryvreckan]

hi, we are insured with Pantaenius (find them on Google) and have found them very good and supportive when things went wrong!

[sniper0885]

Originally Posted by Corryvreckan

hi, we are insured with Pantaenius (find them on Google) and have found them very good and supportive when things went wrong!

thanks for your reply. I will give them a try tonight. It is amazing the spread of coverages and costs. This is truly an area that it pays to shop around. One company would charge me more than double of an other and i might have taken it if i had'nt shopped. That goof could have cost me thousands. thanks again...jim

[osirissailing]

Originally Posted by sniper0885

thanks for your reply. I will give them a try tonight. It is amazing the spread of coverages and costs. This is truly an area that it pays to shop around. One company would charge me more than double of an other and i might have taken it if i had'nt shopped. That goof could have cost me thousands. thanks again...jim

Try also IMIS in Annapolis - they are the most popular source of insurance coverage for cruising yachts.

http://www.imiscorp.net/

[KG4JXT]

self-insure if you can. Not that many sailboats are lost. Your odds of staying afloat for many years will increase if you spend the money on high quality hardware and other maintenance and inspect regularly - you are going to do that anyway, right? We have been taking our chances for 9 years, saving about half the original purchase price of our 43' boat so far. If we had a total loss, I doubt my wife would get on another boat for quite a while anyway... so we would not need a replacement.

[MMNETSEA]

Hi John,

A very good point regarding quality of hardware and the level of maintenance/inspection to minimize damage and loss.

However, there is one other factor that needs bringing into the equation, and that is when one's own boat is in collision with another boat or property(they - not at fault) , causing injury and damage - which may result in a significant claim for a lot of money. If only 3rd party insurance had been carried !!!

[sniper0885]

It had crossed my mind to just forego the insurance but I am not so sure I want to risk the financial loss if something should go wrong. 10 years of insurance is about 10-13% of the overall cost of the boat at its current value. one oooops could far exceed that.soooo as much as the yearly policy cost hurts i think i will insure. jim

[Lighthouse]

The other factor to consider is that more and more marinas and haul-out facilites around the world will not accommodate or haul an uninsured vessel.

[JeanneP]

As Lighthouse mentions, liability insurance is being required more and more, so that would be a minimum anyway.

Annual ocean crossing blue water insurance cost us about 2.5% of insured value 7 years ago, I don't know if it would be more now. Our current, coastal cruising policy is about 1% of insured value. We are presently insured through IMIS and though we haven't had a claim, we have been pleased with the efficiency and professionalism of their office.

[Trim50]

Two words on self insurance..."lightning strike" I've talked with too many people that tell me nightmare stories about lightning storms in Panama and Costa Rica.

[Footprints]

Dont know if this will add much value to your question or topic..... however we have opted for the insurance path, as we have sunk everything we own into our boat, so it has now become our life, our home and our solice.

To not insure your home ashore would be classified as insane, and I can only take (and give) the same advice for your most prized possesion afloat.

We have often tossed up the cost of insurance against the cost of not being insured (self insured) and no matter what situations we come up with, insurance always seems to cover the unexpected, which after all, insurance is there to cover. If we were perfect and never at fault or indeed faultless in our endeavours, then insurance companies would not be in business, and this fact alone should be the one driving factor into having insurance.. we dont insure agianst our known competence... rather against the unknown! (vessel or otherwise)

For example...... you have anchored in a nice quiet bay shelted from the prevailing winds with the best ground tackle money can buy...... and the wind shifts so as you are now on a lee shore in 40kts...... and even the best ground tackle money can buy doesn't hold your lifes savings secure and you wake up to the noise of your hull scrapping against the very shore that was providing you protection!!!!! Now my argument is... who's fault is it???? either way insurance is there to cover these circumstances, wether ours or somebody elses!!!!

We pay $2000 (Aust) for insurance on a 12M cat and which is covered up to 250nm to sea from Aust on a $350K cat.... and it is worth every cent in my opinion to cover what I dont know or expect!

JMHO

[Auzzee]

Insurance brings out the pessimist in us all....and, of course, the optimism of the insurance industry. When we buy insurance we are betting we have an accident....the insurance company is betting we don't. They win more often which is why (next to religions) they own the world's most expensive real estate.

[JeanneP]

(sigh)

It seems as if everyone loves to bash insurance companies. Or get what's "only right for all the premiums I've paid." Now, let's see.

Our new, very expensive (for us) boat is insured, and we would have to own the boat for 100 years before our insurance premiums equalled the purchase price/replacement value of the boat. Our sailboat, because we crossed oceans in it, just the two of us, cost more to insure, but it still would have taken about 45 years of premiums to equal the insured value.

Health insurance. My medical bills 12 years ago exceeded $150,000 USD. Without insurance our cruising days would have ended right then. Was it worth it? I'm still alive, so yeah, I think so. And if I hadn't made it, would it have been worth it? Yeah, then too.

Insurance isn't a lottery ticket, it's a safety net when the unimaginable happens, and the price is cheap for the protection it provides.

Insurance companies don't get rich on the premiums. They get rich on the use to which they put those premiums until it is needed to pay out claims. Real estate is a big investment medium for them, as is the equity market. Just as there are medical specialists to treat cancer, heart disease, etc., there are financial specialists whose day is spent investing their company's money in the best way possible. They spend their entire day researching and acting on their research, just as my doctor spends his entire day treating illness (and ideally promoting wellness). I wouldn't trust my investments with my doctor, nor would I trust my health to my banker.

There might be some truth to the comment that you are betting that a disaster will happen, the insurance company that it won't. But if you don't lay the bet, you can't win (at least come out even) when something goes wrong.

I don't mean to be so pedantic today, but the small annual premium has kept many a family from financial disaster.

done.

[Auzzee]

You misunderstand me, Jeanne. I was not 'bashing insurance companies'. The business of protection trades on our concerns regarding the future safety of the items we are protecting. I am sure the vast majority of us both pay insurance premiums and understand the nature of investment finance.

Cheers

David.

[JeanneP]

I'm sorry, David, I didn't think you were bashing insurance companies but I was a bit concerned that you were leaving the door open for the bashing to begin. Peter would get all huffy whenever a well-meaning insurance agent tried to sell him life insurance - "why would I want to bet that I'm going to die?" Sometimes he got a bit too thick-headed for my comfort.

[osirissailing]

Originally Posted by sniper0885

Good Afternoon everyone, please bare with me if this question has been delt with before. i am shopping for insurance on a Isalan Packet 40 that i will be taking possession of in may. I have found a wide range of coverages and prices. I will be u.s. coastal most of the time for the next 3-4 years but would like to exceed the 75 mile restriction every now and then and maybe stray south to cancun mexico when the fancy strikes. Later on as i gain experience I would like to cruise to more exotic grounds. i would appreciate some tuterage on best methods to insure. If you have a favorite agent or company a phone number referal would be nice. Jim

In the USA if you are not going beyond the Bahamas, you can insure through your automobile insurance carrier in most cases. This will be the most economical type of insurance for your boat.

For Mexico you must purchase special insurance required by the Mexican authorities and most USA companies can provide that also.

Beyond USA waters you need world Cruiser insurance coverage. There are many "brokers" listed in the sailing magazines that can set this up for you. But the best one so far for 2 person crewing is IMIS in Annapolis. See them at: http://www.imiscorp.net/ They have the only 2 person on board worldwide coverage - it is called a "Jackline" policy. Most other worldwide insurance agencies require you to have more than 3 persons on board when during a passage.

If you are a European there are wonderful agencies there available to set up the insurance for your boat.

[redbopeep]

Thanks for the good information posted here about cruising insurance.

I'd heard that there were NO policies out there if there were just two people on passage--so I'm glad to hear there's at least one carrier out there who will insure two-person crews.

Fair winds

[Huck]

What about if your singlehanded. Is their coverage for blue water.

[mico]

A good point raised by Lighthouse in relation to marina and haul out.

Here in Oz, you will not get a berth in any marina for more than an overnighter unless you are able to produce current insurance documentation. Marine insurance is really tightening up down here.

Haul out facilities are starting to ask the same as they are finding that the exemptions they had been asking us to sign do not absolve them of liability. Of late there have been some very pricey accidents occurring in some yards and it's becoming a real sore point.

The other issue that is causing some angst is the fact that some insurers are now requiring full surveys for vessels more than 15 years old. While I can understand this - we are finding some real inconsistencies in relation to how long these inspections last.

We changed insurers (albeit reluctantly as we had been with them for many many years and always found them great to deal with) when we were asked 3 years running to have full out of water surveys for the same vessel which we built in Perth only 3 years ago. Apart from the original hull (18 yrs old) , which was ground back to glass and totally re-2 packed inside and out - including new bulkheads, every single item from engine to mast, stays and knifes and forks were purchased brand new!

With the new vessel, our new insurer asked for a full survey (which we secured as part of the conditions on buying the new yacht) and they have agreed in writing to honour this for 5 years.

Is this only happening in OZ?

The new insurer has also informed us that they insure for blue water and we can purchase cover from 1 - 12 months. Blue water insurance is activated when passing territorial waters and ends upon return. We are sailing to New Caledonia in the new year - will marinas there require current insurance?

Don't get me wrong, we have always had great relationships with insurers in the past and its not an easy job they have. I just wonder if perhaps some of the larger insurers are throwing the baby out with the bath water?

Regards,

Robin & Shaun